|
Searching Foders Forums and locating older topics
Hi All,
Searching forums Searching for old posts Searching for TID Searching for tid or tids Search formats Searching for post numbers Searching for thread numbers How to Search freeform Freeform paging Fodor Search tips Search tips Elaine asked me how I found the old post <b>the really fabulous fiction book</b> and I decided to record this on a thread or topic for all fodorites. Rex gave some good search examples and url guidelines in one of his posts, but I wanted to elaborate for those of you who are wondering how all the older posts are being found. Simply, NOT being able to find this post on a search bothered me. I am a systems analyst by day and work with databases all day long, and for the last couple of nights I have been trying to find this post. Also, I needed something to do, as we are leaving in 3 weeks on our London trip and I am about to JUMP OUT OF MY SKIN! Aaaaggghhh! This was simply a great task for an anal retentive person like myself. (grin) To understand finding or searching for threads in Fodors forums you need to understand several key concepts about their database; 1-Each region within fodors has a forum/database number called an <b>fid</b>. Europes has an fid of 2. When you click on europe forum, the website automatically does a search for all threads or topics with a 2 and displays the results in a certain order. 2-Each country in that region has a forum database number within that forum (but only will be indexed as such if you select that country when posting your topic, otherwise it will just be indexed as 2 as Europe or general region wide) 3-Each topic or thread has a unique number called a <b>tid</b> each reply to that topic is assigned that number and a reply number. If you reply to topic id number 3334 and your reply is the 6th one, your post becomes tid number 3334 reply or message 6 4-Each topic or thread has a index number that changes at any given time, depending on where the topic or thread can be found sequentially in the list of ALL topics in that forum. This index number changes because topics appear in date and time order, from most current date and time. As new topics are posted or older topics replied to, they move up the list and that number changes, thereby changing the index number of the topics below it or older. DO NOT CONFUSE THIS WITH THE ID NUMBER. That tid never changes. 5-Foders is constantly building another type of index and that is the <b>text</b> index for searching. I am not sure what systems tool they are using, but in most updates for search index, all text that has been added or changed since the last search index was run, is usually added to that index. This allows for a quick search on text or text expressions in any database, and why sometimes you cant see recent posts on your search. They rebuild this <b>search index</b> periodically thru out the day or possibly overnight thru a batch update. 6-In Fodors forums, all returns are set to automatically display in INDEX ORDER, 50 topics at a time. This means all requests on searches too. If anyone knows how to change this to give more than 50 results at a time please let me know. Using the fodors formats to work with searching for topics: 1)The most simple is just using the tid or topic id number is you have it. Pulling up a thread in which you know the forum ID number and the topic ID number for the actual thread (remember this is assigned when the topic is started by the first post and is unique): http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34449172 In the url above, the forum id (fid) is 2 for Europe and the post id or <b>topic</b> id(tid) is 34449172. I do not have the list of sub forum ids within the Europe region. Maybe Rex or someone who has them will post that here. Warning?fodors has restarted this topic numbering several times, probably after archiving some of the really older posts. Unless you know your actual TOPIC id, trying to <b>guess</b> on this is almost impossible because there are still several hundred thousand topics or threads out there, even in this forum, as I quickly found out. 2) If you want to display posts in page order, but dont want to have to do so in the fodors forum format waiting for all the gifs and ads, just use the url format: http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...=2&start=0 I have bookmarked the above url and it loads in my browser twice as fast as the forum page. This url is set to go to the fid=2 or Europe forum database and it will start on index number after 0, or 1. 3)If you want to by pass having to page thru the 1st , oh say 1000 posts, you can change that index start number to anything: http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...amp;start=1000 The above format will begin with 1001 topic in the index and give you thru 1050. Knowing this was key to finding that thread we were missing. 4)Search formats?.there are many different search formats, I am now just learning them myself. Some simple ones are: http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...on&start=0 http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...&start=500 http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...ad&start=0 http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...ks&start=0 The first url is just a simple text search on the word <b>fiction</b> and it is set to display the 1st message after 0, or 1 The second url is the same, but is set to display the 1st message after the 500th result in the search. (this is great when you are looking for older messages) The third url is a search that looks for all threads with the words fiction and books which is different from the next url. The fourth url which searches for all thread with either fiction or read. <b>HOW I FOUND THE <i>A Really Fabulous Fiction</i> topic</b> First, in this case, I could not use any search formats because we had already determined that those were not working. Rex is right in that there are some search index build holes and it looks like any post that had a reply or was started somewhere between 06/15/2002 and 07/13/2002, is not coming up on any search. I really cant understand why, but in every large search result, that hole exists?results will stop at 07/14/2002 and the next one will pick up on 06/14/2002. There are several during the from june 2002 thru october 2002. I would think when Fodors re-builds each night or week, this would fix itself, but it is not doing so. THE MESSAGES ARE NOT LOST?just not re-indexing in the search index build. So if you come across any old or great posts, reply to them to get them back up into the current posts where they will hopefully re-index. Also, I do not the text in topic names were ever indexed on the older threads. I think fodors corrected that on current indexing, but never went back on the older threads. So if you reply to those older posts to move them up?put the topic name in your body of your reply text. Bobbi gave me the information I needed to try and determine what the TID was for that topic. She gave me 05/01/2000 12:50pm as the date and time of the 1st post on that topic. She also said that the last post that she had on her copy was on 07/05/2002 at 8:46pm. Since I have no idea whether or not that really was the last post, the fastest way to search for this was to try and determine the TOPIC id number or the tid. To do this I would need to know a range of ids that were assigned to topics on or around 05/01/2000 at 12:50pm. I then set my browser to page thru posts or topics by using this Url format: http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgTopic...mp;start=20000 I then just kept on changing that 20000 by adding on 20000 to that number, ie 40000, 60000 etc., until I reached the posts with 0 replies or a last reply on or around 05/01/2000. It took about 7 or 8 times to find that topics with 0 replies or last replies on 05/01/2000. They started somewhere in the indexing at about 102,000. When I finally reached posts on 05/01/2000, I then looked at posts that had 0 or only 1or 2 replies and found 2 posts that were originally started on 05/01/2000, one at 11am with a unique<b>tid</b> of 102333 and one around 1:15pm with a tid of 102,358. Logically, if our lost post was a topic that was started on 05/01/2000 at 12:50pm, its <b>tid</b> should be between those two posts. Since the 1:15pm was closer to my time, I picked a random number of 102,345 and just started working my way up using the format for a single thread request. I hit it and found our post within just a few minutes. Elaine, the key here was knowing on or when that post was first started. Without that I could not have done this as easily. It would have been trying to find a needle in a haystack. When I first stared trying to search for this, I was using the same method but was searching for posts in index order in July 2002. There are over 100 or more 50 topic screens still showing for July 2002. When I did not find it there, I knew that July 2002 was not the last post, and that meant that they only way we would find it was either knowing the TID or knowing when it was started to determine the TID. I dont know how much this will help, because I was lucky in that someone had copied that old post to a certain date and was able to furnish me with the original reply information. We should always be able to find this now because of the post I made seperately with the thread location and the text in the body about the thread. The search index build will pick that up and display that. Hope this helps! |
Erin,
Thanks so much for the explanation. You are truly a wizard! Great detective work and now we will all benefit!! Have an awesome time in London. Bobbi |
Hi
I'm not a data whiz, so here's my question The recent thread "Helpful Information on Italy" which we'd like to keep going, or at least not have it disappear-- when I search on Helpful and/or Information and/or Italy, it doesn't come up. It does come up when I click somewhere else on my own name, because I was one of the responders. Why do you think it's not coming up on a topic search? |
Erin, while your post is extremely interesting (and thanks too for topping that fabulous fiction book thread), what I really would like to know is how you were able to post such a long post in one piece. I am a frequent poster on the Latin American board and always have problems with my long posts (I get an error message for anything longer than just a couple paragraphs, but if I split my message into smaller chunks, I can post it with no problem). Any insights on that?
|
hi all,
Elaine, I suspect it has to do with your search When I put in any of the following in a search I find your post in the results: helpful information italy helpful information italy but when I use helpful information on italy it returns results without that topic because it sees no phrase helpful information on italy... your topic is helpful information: italy it is the word on that is giving you the trouble when i sarch helpful+information+italy we now get it because I put that phrase in a reply to it. that is why when using multiple words in a phrase you must be precise...it is looking for that pattern of words. If you are off,,,,it will not locate it. You are better off picking just one word or two and then searching. Iza, I too used to have problems with fodorsa accepting my long posts. I havent ready pared themd down any, and rarely drink on one/or more msisssss |
hi erinb
thanks for the explanation, and after this I'll stop beating the dead horse, but all along I have tried doing searches, within Italy and within General Interest, on the words Helpful (or) Information (or) Helpful Information. That thread just doesn't come up for me. I'll just make a note of the url, but thanks for trying to help. |
iza,
obviously I am half asleep... that last phrase: I havent ready pared themd down any, and rarely and rarely drink on one/or more msisssss was meant to be: I havent really pared them down any and it rarely returns with errors now. dont ask me where the: rarely drink on one/or more msisssss came from????? |
Very helpful. Link to this post and you'll learn all there for a "how to" search and find old topics.
|
Thanks erinb..
You have done so much research and spent so much time , to make the search function easier. I've saved your post for reference. Fodor's should give you a prize! |
Thanks, erinb! I was wondering why I couldn't find this thread by doing a search. Not that I understood much of your explanation!!
|
Hi erinb
Thanks for this informative posting. Since I am a slow learner I am printing this help for future reference since I will no doubt be unable to find this again when I want to. Thanks. |
tsk,,,tsk,,,give it time you guys. That indexing doesn't happen every day.
|
Apparently, I helped you (I guess) with your understanding of how indexing works (and DOESN'T work) - - but after all that, why not post the URL to the "fabulous fiction" thread here?
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...amp;tid=102351 And I cannot contain the chuckles over how all your detective work does not jive with the ability to consistently spell FodOr's... lol... Nevertheless, good thread... and... Best wishes, Rex |
Ph, and one other thing - - the "fid" data is not absolutely necessary.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...jsp?tid=102351 ... will get you to the correct thread. It will, curiously enough, default to fid=1 - - whether the "tid" belongs there (the U.S. forum) or not - - this is an odd quirk, as I know no other way to display a thread from a "foreign" forum, with the U.S. forum in the lefthand column. |
One additional thing - - I do not understand the black holes - - but once in there, I don't know that anything will take a thread out of it.
Quite a mystery, to my understanding of databases... unless there is an immutable "volume number" or something like that - - and adding new stuff to threads that passed through the black hole period does not change that? Probably just babbling mumbo jumbo here... |
hi rex,
foders, fodors...it is a brain glitch that I have had since the beginning. You do not know how many times I have typed www.fodErs.com and screamed with frustration...I laugh about it now. and rex, my AR friend, only you would point this out!(grin) after all that hard work and you find probably the only word I have spelled wrong....lololol..if you are like me, it's the details that I notice and why I am a systems analyst. however, that one (e versus o) always escapes me....brain glitch...my only excuse. As to the black hole,,,I fear you may be right that they will never re-index. Once I found that post about the books, I posted a reply with the words <b>a really fabulous fiction read</b> in my body of text. that was yesterday? and it still does not show up when I search on it. Sorry for leaving out that url in this topic and thanks for doing so. If you will search on "fabulous fiction" you will see another topic with that in the title and the url is included so that when anyone searchs for that topic, that new topic thread will appear and they can find that the link. I did this on the Clara and Herb one also, and I think the poster did it for the Pilot one...I will check on that. I actually discovered what you were talking about on the fid today. I am trying to find a way to return search results of more than 50 at a time. do you know of any way? I am assuming that the command in the url pgTopics.jsp file sets up that return format, but since I know little about html or java or jsp scripting(??) I simply do not know. as to the black hole again, you were right. We use a function with our database at work called dbsearch. our software is a unix based program and we use a search product that builds a db index of the data additions within the last 24 hours. but all of our data is recorded with a date index and new additions are recorded in a temp file to be added to the index daily. but we routinely have to rebuild the whole index which can take a couple of hours on a weekly basis, because of what we call back keying and that is late entries of data using a back date. we have tried several times to do away with this option, but some of our software programs require it, so it remains. If their indexing missed the topics to begin with, it is possible that they never re-index or have never fixed this gap of indexing. or they may only index new original posts. or the search process only searchs text in a limited number of the replies for each message...this last one the most sense and would be a reason why the index updates are not capturing those re animated posts. mystery still unsolved although I am testing some stuff to see.... check here for updates.. |
When did you say your vacation is? Be precise.
|
ps and did you notice I only mispelled it twice...of course the 1st time was in the ALL IMPORTANT TOPIC HEADER! GOD!
(beating head on desk repeatedly!) No wonder you are laughing! erinb...signing off now..this day was too long! |
Elaine, I think I figured out the problem with the Helpful Italy post. I could not turn it up in a search either, as you couldn't, yesterday and I was not using any phrase that would not appear correctly as I know how to search well by words and phrases.
I figured it must not have been indexed correctly on the Italy country when created (or at least was not now), and it was also not indexed under "general info/region wide" as I tried that, also. Perhaps I missed this discussion in Erin's information, or I think she is saying that if you don't pick a country the post defaults to regionwide, but that doesn't appear to be the case as I understand it. You can find that post if you simply type in "helpful" in the search box AND (this is tricky) select NOTHING in the righthand box. Nothing must be highlighted. I believe the country you select for the post has a number which is referred to as "keyword" in the URL string when you search -- Italy is 135, for example, and regionwide is 115 and France is 129. The helpful information post has NO keyword in its search string. I think it was created without selecting any country and not selecting regionwide, either. Unfortunately, I think it is very difficult to have nothing selected in the righthand box, something is almost always highlighted in blue. The only way I can get nothing to be highlighted is if I do not select anything in that box when I first get into Fodors. Once I have highlighted something in that box, I cannot ever get it back to nothing, without exiting Fodors Europe and coming back. At least this is the way it appears to me and from epirical evidence, that appears to be the problem and might explain some other mysterious searches that I knew would not work. I just see the pattern of the keyword=number thing in the string at the bottom and deduced the keyword number is the region, but it's just a guess. I've never realized this before, that you can search without selecting anything in the righthand box, but only if you've never selected anything yet. I thought part of the problem with that post is that it has a colon in the subject heading, so that would not be searchable and "helpful information" would not be findable from the title due to that, but would if that phrase appears within the thread. However, upon experiment it was more than that. |
Erin, I can see the analytical mind at work. I've played around a bit on my own with trying to figure out the method to the madness. Glad someone else decided to go public, as I'd find a question for each answer. Christine, if you intentionally or inadvertently click on one of the countries on the list, hold your CTRL key down and click that blue highlighted beast, the highlight will be gone. |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:45 PM. |