joy

What is the French and Italian secret for making coffee? I once looked all over a small hotel in southern Italy for the lovely young man who made me a cup before all the other guests had awakened. In both these countries I have usually fortunate enough to find lodgings where breakfast is included. If not, I spent many euros for 2nd, 3re, 4th cups of coffee. Their coffee is truly devine. It tastes like fresh ground coffee smells.
Joy

dwdvagamundo

joy--

I would say (with tongue only partly in cheek) that the secret is that you're drinking it while on vacation in France and Italy.

Dukey1

I totally agree with the above "answer."

Padraig

Coffee is a very complicated issue, and I am no expert. There are many variables involved, far too many to elaborate on here. It is probable that the coffee you got in Italy is quite different from the coffee you get at home, and more to your liking. The "secret"? Different beans, probably a longer roast, quite possibly fresher, beans ground immediately before brewing, getting the temperature of the water right...

kerouac

Just about all of the coffee is freshly ground, and I'm sure it makes a big difference. In any café, they grind the coffee beans only when you order it. And even the automatic machines in offices or train stations or at autoroute rest stops grind the beans only when you push the button (my sister-in-law wants to stop at every rest stop because she loves the coffee so much).

Nevertheless, most Australian visitors seem to find the coffee horrible because it is not brewed to Australian tastes.

kerouac

Oh, it should be mentioned that absolutely all of the coffee machines in cafés or the coin machines elsewhere are made exclusively in Italy.

elberko

In addition to freshly ground, it seems, by appearance, that coffee machines in Europe are usually by-the-cup espresso type machines?

At home, the closest I come is freshly group and french-pressed.

~Liz

Dukey1

You can fresh grind coffee just about anywhere so somehow I am not sure that is the real key factor in all of this.

adrienne

It helps to use a decent amount of coffee when brewing. Most American coffee is far too weak for my taste. At home, I use espresso coffee in a percolator and love the coffee.

It also might be the water, perhaps not over-chemically treated.

kerouac

<I>You can fresh grind coffee just about anywhere </I>

Obviously you can, but in most places, people don't do it.

MonicaRichards

I guess it depends on what you like. I didn't actually like the coffee itself in Italy, it tasted harsh and burned. And I like strong coffee, so that's not the issue, it's that the beans either weren't good to start with or they were over roasted. But obviously someone likes them that way. Then they use a very fine grind and an espresso maker. I even got good at using the stovetop one! But I like the boutique coffee beans available here in California better than Italy. France I did like the coffee but then I use a french press at home too.

bilboburgler

The best coffee beans
Well roasted
Ground for the process about to be used
Fresh water

I used to work for a supplier of a well known coffee company who told me his coffee was the best so we set up a taste competition and we varied two things, the coffee beans and the water.

The beans made only a small difference (they were all very good beans) but the water made all the difference. Bottled water was poor, but soft tap water made a big difference. So much so one of our Swiss agents used to come to the UK with a litre of his home water in his bag

ahotpoet

If you have access to a Keurig machine I recommend you try a cup of the Green Mountain Dark Magic. It's as close as I have seen to what you can get there and it's perfect every time.

Bokhara2

Kerouac:" Nevertheless, most Australian visitors seem to find the coffee horrible because it is not brewed to Australian tastes."

Really, Kerouac? I'm astonished - that's how our baristas make coffee in Australia & we have a big coffee culture. It's a while since I've been to France, but I've usually enjoyed my coffee there.

Like here, there will sometimes be a bar that uses a bean I'm not so keen on, but I can't say it's been the search to find a coffee I like as it is in the US. NYC at least is getting better, though.

TPAYT

ahotpoet-----thanks for the tip. On my next order from Keurig I am going to try the Dark Magic. So far Green Mt. coffees haven't been our favorite. We like the Caribou Mahogany and Tully's Dark French the best.

Morning coffee in France along with a baguette slathered in French butter and raspberry jam---ahhhh, take me away!

Now French butter------that's another reason to visit. Then again, maybe it's the surroundings as dwdvag and Dukey mentioned above.

PatrickLondon

On the other hand, way back in the 1960s, I stayed in a family where the breakfast café au lait was made with the previous evening's brew boiled up again with some milk in (sterilised milk, of course - I'm not sure they even had a fridge).

dreamon

Coffee is like wine - everyone has a different opinion on what makes a good cup. I live within easy walking distance of about 20 cafes and probably only a quarter of them make what I would call excellent coffee, but they're all full of coffee drinkers so someone likes their cup. And I think the same is probably true of whether we're talking about France, Italy or Australia. (Although I agree with Kerouac that Australians seem to generally be disappointed with coffee in France - I know I was.)

bilboburgler

Interesting, I have only been into two "coffee shops" (excluding all bars and restaurants) in my life (only 54) to drink coffee one was Cafe Nero in Heathrow (should be boycotted both for tax evasion and terrible coffee) and once Cafe Nero in (no relation) Piazza Nero in Ravenna which was ok.

In hotels and bars etc I've only had to send back coffee 4 times as undrinkable, (British Airways, they forgot the coffee element, Marriott UK, they had clearly never heard of the drink, some posh hotel outside Boston USA who thought dirty cups, lipstick and wine were possible additions and a place in Paris that still had the ash in it of someones fag).

ahotpoet

TPAYT, you're welcome. If you are into grinding your own beans Trader Joes Bay Blend is also quite nice. Sometimes I mix in some French Roast. I'd be interested to hear how you like the Dark Magic. Top this thread to let me know.

greg

I operate on of those commercial espresso machines at a coffee bar for a nonprofit organization. It is an art to get a good coffee out. Besides the beans, you have to adjust the grind sizes depending on the coffee and the room temperature. Then you again have to adjust the amount of grind to put into the basket. And finally, you have to adjust how hard you push the grind into the basket. Too hard for the environment, you get a bitter coffee. Too soft, you get a weak American coffee. Somewhere between the two in a very narrow range, you get a heavenly brew. Even in Italy, the coffee is not always good if made by someone who only operates the machine occasionally or serves mostly to foreigners. I try to find an independent bar in town where the barista