I think I'll quit offering advice since you are set w/ what you plan on doing.

But I will close w/ one comment for what it's worth . . .

To go to Scotland and scoot past all those wonderful glens/castles/gardens etc. simply because it can be done is just sad IMHO. You don't have to go inside every single castle (though every one is different) - but to skip them all just to make your 17 minute deadline for such-and-such a drive is goofy.

Stirling castle is not "just a building". It is the history of Scotland. Same w/ Kilchurn, or Dunvegan, or Blair Atholl

How is one to understand what Glencoe means w/o at least going inside the visitors center. It isn't just a pretty drive - you know . . . . . .

janis, well said. Different strokes I guess.

The negative criticism I have been receiving on this thread has been troubling me deeply. After a lot of thought I have come to the conclusion that it comes down to how different people want to spend their time. It would appear that I am a bit of a maverick in the forum because my interest lies more in the beauty of nature than in history and culture. I understand that the scottish members of the forum would treasure their history and their culture. They have a long history and a strong culture and have every reason to be proud of it and to cherish it. I respect that. On the other hand, coming from a country with only a short history and a culture that is still in the process of forming but with vast natural beauty, my interest is in geography, geology and nature. I am greatly fascinated by the wonders wrought by the living earth over the eons. I would hope that we could all respect the diversity of our interests rather than criticise each other for having interests different from our own. My itinerary is strongly oriented towards the natural beauty of Scotland rather than towards it's history and culture. This is not intended as an insult to Scottish history and culture. It is simply a question of choices. Will I spend the next hour exploring the inside of an historic castle or will I spend it enjoying lambs frolicking in a field or watching the surf thundering against the base of a cliff?
Please stop telling me how silly/crazy/wrong my itinerary is. I welcome constructive suggestions and ideas. If some of my timings are unrealistic, tell me. If I have missed something that I really should see, tell me. If I have included something that, given my interests, I shouldn't bother with, tell me. But just telling me that the whole thing is nutty does not help me at all.

Phew! Sorry about that. I needed to get it off my chest :)

The planning process:
Here is how the planning process works. Let's take the journey from Callander to Fionnphort as an example.
Objective: Arrive in Fionnphort by 6:00pm (latest check-in time for the B&B)
It is a 1 hour drive (at best) from Craignure to Fionnphort so we must leave Craignure by 5:00pm at the latest.
To reach Craignure by 5:00pm we must catch the 4:00pm ferry from Oban.
To catch the 4:00pm ferry from Oban we must reach Oban by 3:15pm.
The above has to be set in concrete because accommodation and ferries must be booked in advance.
Now we choose a route from Callander to Oban and plan backwards along that route to see if it is doable. If it requires us to leave Callander before say 8:00am (no breakfast) then we choose another route. Repeat until a doable route is found.
Nothing between Callander and Oban is locked in concrete. If we drive without stops we can do the journey in 3 hours and 30 minutes. However if we leave Callander at 9:30am we actually have 5 hours and 45 minutes available before we have to be in Oban so we take the 2 hours and 15 minutes "float" and spread it over the journey to allow for stops and unexpected problems.
That is how the schedule was put together. That 2 hour 15 minute float can actually be used in any way we see fit on the day. We can decide not to stop at Luss and spend 45 minutes in Glencoe instead. If we choose, we can spend the whole 2 hours 15 minutes in Glencoe but then we don't get to stop anywhere else. We can still follow some little side road to some stones if we wish, but at least we are aware of the consequences of doing so and how much time we can afford to use up.

Every day has been planned the same way. On every day there is a "float" that has been spread over the schedule but that we can actually use in any way we choose. We can even use it to explore the inside of a castle or visitor centre if we choose. Or we can use it sitting on a cliff-top watching puffins. But, in each case, we will know what else we will have to miss by doing so.

By planning like this I have never yet missed a train, boat or plane or arrived late at a destination. I guess there is always a first time, but so far it has worked for me and I have been lucky.

Now some specific responses:

pittpurple: Once again, thanks for your constructive suggestions. I love your idea about eating simply one night and then having a good meal the next.
Falkirk wheel: I wouldn't go miles out of my way to see it but it is an engineering feat and not too far off my route so I might just stop for a quick look. I have no need to actually go on it.
Breakfast: On arrival at each B&B I will discuss our schedule with the hosts and ask for their cooperation in getting us out the door on time in the morning. We are early risers so will probably be waiting for the breakfast room to open. With luck our food will be cooked first. If necessary we will fill up on the cold food and forego the cooked breakfast. I really don't want to be sitting around until 10:00am before hitting the road.

twk: I hear your concerns about driving on those narrow, twisty roads. I have sufficient "float" built into the schedule to make frequent stops. We tend to stop anywhere that there is a photo-op. We get out of the car and walk around, admiring the view. We may not stop for long but we do stop often.

GD: Despite all that microplanning, I do tend to be spontaneous when travelling. The spontaneity is just ring fenced by the realities of getting to places by times ;) I love shooting off down little side roads to see where they go. My lovely lady has ants when I take her on one of my little 'adventure tours' ;)

janisj: Thank you for all the kind help you have given me in this forum. I'm sorry that you seem to be giving up on me now ;) I guess we just enjoy different kinds of holidays.

So the main purpose for this trip is to enjoy scenery, right. No interest in history or the meeting the wonderful Scottish people. I think you are missing out on the most important part. However, I do hope you and your stop watch have a wonderful trip.

You say you are interested in nature and the beauty of it. But how is the driver going to experience this if they are concentrating on the road, or if the passenger is concentrating on maps?

Wouldn't you want to go wander around somewhere outside or hiking or something, since you like nature? Instead of spending it inside a car.

What a waste of a lot of money to get there.

*Sigh*

I don't think anyone is trying to upset you, we just worry that you won't get to see what Scotland has to offer (for all interest levels and types of interest).

Don't take it personally. Sometimes the criticism on this board can seem a little harsh, and there really are different styles appropriate for different folks. One thing I will tell you is that when you get criticism from one of the regulars on this board, it sort of helps put things into context to know their travel style and what kind of advice they give.

My travel style is probably a little closer to yours than some of the other folks who've posted on this thread (as an American, I'm used to driving a lot and have limited vacation time). So, I will leave you with the observation I made above--I think you would probably be better off without so many one night stands as I think you'll need to regroup a little bit after some of these very intense days. This is particularly true in the northwest of Scotland where you are going to have to drive a lot of single track roads.

Good luck, and I hope you have a great trip.

Did you ever come across these guys whilst planning your Itinerary:
www.secret-scotland.com

I think they could have saved you Or maybe even still save you, from a lot of hassle!

Cheers
J-N

For the record, I am NOT Scottish. I am an American.

If scenery is your thing, then make sure you DO see the Sma' Glen.

I also suggest that you try to allot some time to visit Dunkeld. It is practically adjacent to Birnam. The cathedral there is amazing. Part of it is ruins and the other part is still in use today. The famous Telford Bridge is worth seeing as well. We stayed in Dunkeld for 3 nights in 2004 and did day trips from there.

twk: My original itinerary involved one night stands every night for 11 nights. The only exception was 2 nights in Edinburgh. On the advice of members of this forum I cut it down to only 4 one night stands (well, technically, I have another 2 on Mull, but that was just to be closer to the ferry for departure). To reduce it further would have required sacrificing the northwest, which I was not prepared to do. I had already sacrificed the Western Islands. So you see, I do listen.

It is just really depressing, after hundreds of hours of research and masses of consultation, adaptation and fine tuning, and after all my bookings have been made, to be told that I have created Frankenstein's monster (not by you, I hasten to add).

JeanNoel: Thanks for the link to Secret Scotland. I wish I had found it sooner. It would have saved me a lot of work. The sort of thing that they do in their itineraries (giving drive times, etc) is pretty similar to what I have done in mine only they do it better.

bettyk: I am very keen to visit the sma' glen and will make a point of stopping in Dunkeld on the way to Birnam. Thanks.

amelie: We are both in our later sixties and not fit enough to hike long distances or stand for extended periods of time. We also carry a lot of camera gear around with us, which makes a lot of walking very tiring. We find it easier to hop in and out of the car to take pictures. I drive very slowly (which might be a problem to cars behind me on single lane roads) and enjoy the the scenery as I drive. On country roads it is usually a good many miles between intersections, so one doesn't spend much time navigating and struggling with maps. I also memorise the route each morning so seldom have to consult a map outside of towns. Both driver and passenger get plenty of time to soak up the scenery. Since much of the time I will be sticking to the back roads I don't anticipate a lot of traffic. I don't mind having to contend with flocks of sheep. In fact I am looking for a good picture of sheep on the road :)

OK, Yelpir, you've been given plenty of grief already, but since you chose to make an example of the Craignure-Fionnphort run, I am going to tell you that there is NO WAY that run takes only an hour. It is 35 miles of narrow, mostly single track road, which is punctuated with....COWS. Big butt Highland Cows. With horns. Who get out of your way precisely when they feel like it, not on your schedule. 1 1/2 hours AT LEAST. This is what everyone has tried to tell you about Scotland - and on Mull, driving from Dervaig to Tobermory, all you will do is watch the turns as you go up the mountain, not the scenery! If that's how you want to go - mazel tov.

Yelpir, I'm not going to disagree with the remarks made by all the other posters..your itinerary is crazy and I really don't think it's doable. BUT, I give you full marks for handling the comments so well. Most would have gone off in a tissy fit.

If you survive this monumental trek,;) please report back.

Once again, thanks for all constructive comments and suggestions. I do appreciate them. Really ;)

Oliverandharry: I hear you about Craignure to Fionnphort. I originally planned to overnight in Oban and take the morning ferry to Craignure but I was told that if I did that I would be sharing the road with all the tour busses off the ferry heading for Iona and it would take me 90 minutes to do the drive. I was told that if, on the other hand, I took the afternoon ferry the previous day, all the tour busses would be lined up at Craignure waiting to get on the ferry to Oban and I would have the road to Fionnphort virtually to myself and I could do it in an hour. I will warn the B&B that I might be up to 30 minutes late (I have already told them that I am on the 4:00pm ferry so they probably expect it).

historytraveler: Thanks ;)

General: I spent a large part of my working life as a project manager and so I can be forgiven for applying formal project planning principles to everything I do. I have consulted broadly, using guide books, forums, the AA the RAC, numerous websites, etc. I have read literally thousands of pages of material. My first job was to compile a list of all the things, given our interests, that we should see in Scotland to give us the broadest possible impression of the country in 11 days. I then put together the optimum route that would take us to as many of these places as practicable. At each stage of the process I published draft itineraries on this forum and adjusted the itinerary based on feedback. I stretched the 11 days to 13 days because we couldn't do it justice in 11 days. At one point I even junked the itinerary completely and started all over again.
I used all these sources to determine the estimated driving times between all points on the route. In places where I thought they were unrealistic, I increased them. I then used formal project planning principles to construct a detailed schedule to ensure that what I was planning was feasible. On every route I have shortcuts planned for if we are falling behind. Given the nature and intent of the trip, what else could I have done that I have not done?

I understand that most people don't like road trips. They prefer to spend a number of nights in one place and have the freedom each day to choose how to spend it. I understand and respect that. That kind of holiday does not require detailed daily planning and scheduling. However, my lovely lady and I prefer road trip type holidays. If you don't like that sort of holiday, please respect that we do. A road trip in a new country requires a great deal of planning and scheduling if it is to stay on track. There are daily distances to be covered. There are ferry and accommodation bookings to be made and met. It would be dangerous to approach a road trip in a busy country like Scotland with a casual rather than a structured attitude. One might spend a lot of time sleeping in the car or not being able to get to places because one hasn't booked the ferry.

So, in conclusion, this is a road trip. The holiday is the journey. We accept the sacrifices that we will have to make in terms of being able to explore Scottish culture and history (my reading has covered a great deal of it). We are accustomed to enjoying scenery through the windscreen of a car. We take thousands of pictures and enjoy them for years afterwards.

Just the thought of topping Bealach na Ba and seeing for hundreds of miles in all directions makes me salivate. It is worth the steep, switchback, single track road I will have to navigate to get there. I cannot wait to drive through the moorlands of the northwest and see the little crofting villages and golden beaches. To gaze out across the Summer Isles to Skye and the Western Isles. Magic. How could I give that up in exchange for a less demanding itinerary?

GD's pictures of Scotland's wild places gave me more pleasure than I can possibly tell you. I cannot wait to be there and to immerse myself in that wild beauty. If my schedule is over-ambitious it is because I am like a child in a candy shop. I simply cannot leave any of it behind. I will drive as many miles as it takes to reach a scene of epic beauty that will make my eyes water in delight. I'm sorry, people, but I'm not giving up one inch of it, no matter what the cost in terms of driving.

I simply MUST chime back in!

&quot;<i>I understand that most people don't like road trips.</i>&quot; Could NOT be further from the truth! I and others love road trips. I have had sports cars all my life and drive as recreation. I've raced cars, and done road rallying. I've decided at the spur of the moment to drive 400 miles for a weekend. You are not the only person who enjoys driving.

BUT! You are dealing w/ a whole different kettle of fish here. You cannot use project planning to deal w/ a drive around Scotland. In my former life <u><font color="red">I taught project planning</font></u> to various government agencies - so I know my way around spread sheets and Gantt Charts. The Heilan Coos, sheep, farm tractors, geese (yes - geese) etc will not care one teensy tiny bit that you graphed it out and it is supposed to work this way.

You think we are poor dumb schmucks who don't know anything - we don't drive, we don't like scenery, we don't know how to plan, and we don't know ANYTHING about getting around Scotland. You dismiss us w/ &quot;<i>I understand that most people don't like road trips.</i>&quot; Sheesh!!

You are stuck in what you know and are not willing to listen to those of us who have been there/done that. The thing is - we are all trying to help but you think we are being obstructionists. Good luck to you sir.

(&quot;<i>the thought of topping Bealach na Ba and seeing for hundreds of miles in all directions makes me salivate</i>&quot; - sure hope the 11 minutes you have scheduled for that stop are clear and not pouring down rain)

I have been going to Scotland for a number of times over the years and I truly enjoy the scenery. Actually a lot of folks think me quite mad for my non driving tours. I do what you do, but I use public transportation, trains, buses and from time to time a private guide. I too plan in detail in order to make connections with various trains and connecting buses. However I also know that trains will be delayed, that river flood and accidents happen causing all the planning to go out the window. So, all I am suggesting is stop the mico-management and go with flow. Also, I am 69, and I don't use my age as a crutch to my plans. I do hope you enjoy your trip and don't become upset if you fall a minute or so off schedule. My last plea is to spend a little more on food. If you are short of funds why not delay this trip and put more money aside?

Yepir, if you are not willing to give up inches of your itinerary, and you already know that the experienced Scotland travelers on this board do not agree with your plan, why do you keep asking for opinions? It is kind of silly that first you ask 'what do you think-how does this sound' and then 'I am doing what I want to do because I know better.' If you know and are set in your ways, just go for it.

As far as posting your itinerary for the benefit of other travelers, I do not see how it would be of help to anyone. It really is quite insane.

Anna Roz

Scotland is a lovely place to do a road trip. It (your timetable) does sound a bit like a military operation but, why not, its your holiday so planning is often part of the fun (for some of us).


I'm sure you will have a lovely time, maybe just have a plan B in case some of the plan A goes awry.

You can eat for &pound;10pp per day in UK just pick little country pubs and in small towns visit the local 'cafe' There is also a pub chain known as wetherspoons (not sure if they are in scot) but if they are seek them out, they are Very good value.

Have a lovely trip and welcome to UK.