Scotland, England, France & Italy itinerary - thoughts please!
 

Hi. My husband & I are planning the month of October for Scotland, England, France & Italy. We would appreciate your thoughts on the itinerary. I will have 2-3 extra days that I could place somewhere to spread it out if too tight or could add another city. Also would prefer to flip the whole itinerary to start in Italy and end in Scotland but concerned about weather in Scotland late October. Any ideas??

1. Melbourne, Australia to Manchester - arrive late afternoon - check in at Airport Hotel
2. Pick Up Hire Car - Visit Old Trafford and lunch with Manchester relatives. Travel to Carlisle late afternoon and stay overnight.
3. Carlisle to Fort William (View Jacobite Railway & Neptunes steps) overnight in FW
4. Steall Falls morning. Travel to Edinburgh afternoon via St Andrews (visit Golf Course) Overnight in Edinburgh
5. Overnight and sightseeing in Edinburgh
6. Edinburgh to Yorkshire. Visit Castle Howard. Overnight in Yorkshire To be confirmed where??
7. Yorkshire to Chatsworth and stay overnight at Hotel on Estate.
8. Chatsworth to Stratford Upon Avon - stay 2 nights with friends
9. Startford Upon Avon
10. Stratford to Portsmouth via Stonehenge. Drop Hire car off near Port Overnight in Portsmouth.
11. Visit HMS Victory in morning and then train to London in afternoon.London overnight for 7 nights at premier Inn Kings Cross.
12. London
13 London
14 London
15 London
16 London
17 London
18 London to Paris with Eurostar overnight in Paris for 3 nights
19 Paris sightseeing
20 Daytrip Train to Amiens - Villers Brettonaux from Paris
21 Train from Paris to Florence - all day trip with change over at Milan - overnight Florence
22 Overnight Florence
23 Day trip to Pisa - Overnight Florence
24 Florence to Rome - Train Overnight Rome
25 Rome sightseeing - overnight
26 Rome sigtseeing - overnight
27 Rome to Melbourne

Any feedback would be appreciated - especially the flipped version of this itinerary, extra city versus add extra days, Train trip from paris to Florence. Wish list for an extra place with the spare days would be Switzerland (Juangfrau region) or Venice.

We are in our 40's and are used to long periods of car travel.

Thank you

M

Rosie,

I don't think the long trip through Paris, only leaving a day for sightseeing, is a good use of your time. Skip Paris this time since it doesn't seem to be a priority for you. Paris really deserves a good 5-7 days. Save time and probably money with an economy air carrier and just fly from London to Florence.

There, you just saved 4 days. You can add time to Rome, or fly into Venice and start your Italy portion of the trip there.

Also, you need to consult the map and trenitalia web site. The trip between Florence and Rome is so short you would barely have time for a nap. I'm quite sure there would be no reason to take an overnight train.

You have a month but are dashing about like mad hens and really won't see much in Paris with only about one full day there.

Except for London, most of the UK bits are very aggressive. You are staying in Carlisle and Fort William neither of which are 'wonderful'. I assume you chose Ft William simply to see the Jacobite.

Ft William to St Andrews to Edinburgh is about a six hour drive and you want to add the walk to the Falls plus exploring St Andrews. This is not a one day journey.

Edinburgh to Malton to York is another 6 hour drive plus a couple of hours at Castle Howard . . . and you are missing so much in between (like Alnwick and Hadrians Wall)

Thanks - As I have extra days to add in we may add another night to Paris and another in Scotland.
Ps There was a typo in the Florence-Rome day. Should read Train to Rome and overnight in Rome.

Day 6 - agree with Janis about this. You have a long journey down from Edinburgh to Castle Howard which will take you half the day at least. And you'll miss so many wonderful places - Lindisfarne? Durham? Bamburgh?
Castle Howard needs plenty of time. It's a big estate with much to see both in and outside the house. There are usually good exhibitions on, and the gardens and grounds are extensive.
You ask where to stay for day 6. Where do you want to stay? Near Castle Howard? York? Bearing in mind you will be getting into your car again the next day! York seems a waste for such a short time - I'd definitely be trying to add on more time in North Yorkshire. If you decide to stay in York itself (a beautiful city) then ensure you choose accommodation with parking for your car,

1) Don't flip, while weather in UK is uncertain, Italy makes more sense later.
2) UK section, is a rush, I'm assuming Carlisle is just an overnight, given the shear distance and rush of the trip I find it hard to help balance. I think drop something, my drop suggestions would be

a) Stonehenge, to see a bunch of stones put back up in Victorian times is a bit odd, if you want to see something interesting like this then why not any others http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stone_circles and one of the best is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avebury
b) Stratford (actually I have no idea why anyone goes here, the poor man did all his work in London and has been dead for 400 years and the planners have done their evil work in Stratford), in London is the globe

If you are doing Portsmouth then also do Fort Nelson https://www.royalarmouries.org/visit-us/fort-nelson/

Looking at Paris, Amiens, Florence it looks even faster. You have to drop summit. I'd just fly London to Florence or Pisa.

Overnight train Florence to Rome, no, too close, just catch a normal train.

Thanks. Stratford is a must as our friends live there and we staying with them for 2 nights. France is also a must as villers Brettonaux is a reason why we are going on trip.
Not taking an overnight train to Rome from Florence as realist this journey is only 2 hours. Train to Rome then overnight in Rome.
I agree with you about Stonehenge but hubby has it on his wish list.
Yes. Carlisle is just a stopover

Train from Paris to Florence - all day trip with change over at Milan - overnight Florence>

There is also an overnight train Paris to Milan and then in morning go onto Florence - or take the marathon several hour train trip thru so-so scenery - but book well in advance for both segments Paris to Milan agt www.voyages-sncf.com or www.capitainetrain.com - same trains just different booking agent - many say the latter is a lot easier for Americans to get to work - horror stories abound about problems with the SNCF site (official site of French Railways).

And from Milan to Florence www.trenitalia.com - Italian State Railways site that can be even more flummoxing than the SNCf site - www.italiarail.com books the same trains at similar prices and even www.raileurope.com can have some cheap as possible trains on its site - and http://www.italotreno.it/IT/Pagine/default.aspx is a competitor to Trenitalia.com on the Milan to Florence-rome-Naples high-speed line. Check all for nifty discounts that are however train-specific and are sold in limited numbers so must be booked in stone weeks early and are non-changeable non-refundable.

For lots of goodies on Italian trains check www.seat61.com - nice info on discounted tickets; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

And IME first class on those trains is significantly more relaxed than 2nd class - especially for folks with lots of luggage - first class is often about half full so you can often find an empty seat to set your luggage on - 2nd class is often quite full and you may have to fend for space in already perhaps overcrowded overhead luggage racks. On the trip of a lifetime IMO - splurge a bit and discounted tickets in first class can be at times not much more than the cheapest availabe 2nd class ticket.

If going to Fort William which I have stayed in and found it to be a rather nice if not spectacular regional town with lots of restaurants, stores, etc - no not that proverbial lost-in-time cutesy little village that some think you must stay in but if you're the type that likes proper cities and finds them more lively and interesting than a small village as British towns go Fort William is rather sweet.

Carlisle I also found rather captivating as British towns go - very historic ancient town again not your picture postcard village tha some would deem you should stay in but a lively regional town.

And if going there be sure to check out the nearby Rannoch Moors - the desolate moors - you can't really drive thru but can drive in part way to experience perhaps the best of all Scottish moors.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Rann...=1600&bih=1075

https://www.google.com/search?q=fort...=1600&bih=1075

Fort William - a kind of town I rather like - not sure why folks diss it so! And if going by train it is a natural stop and base from which to hop to Rannoch Moor or those cute villages that would bore some to death if they had to stay in them (and thrill others seeking such quiet, cute places - that I understand but folks are all different...)

I would add all of your extra days to Paris - you are really giving it very short shrift.

And you can't take an overnight train from Florence to Rome - the trip only takes about an hour and a half.

Can't comment on the timing of the early days of your trip - have not been in that area - but it does seem like an awful lot of hopping around.

Thanks Claudia - will email you in the next few weeks.

Rosie: I'd maybe be careful about e-mailing someone who just registered here (today) to post to your thread . . .

just sayin' . . .

Just create a g-mail account for any purpose like that - very simple but no not your personal e-mail you use constantly.

PQ: The point was the (now deleted) poster was <i>advertising</i> . . . NOT that Rosie's e-mail might be compromised.

gottcha janis! gottcha. Thanks for the correcto.

Cheers

Pal

Thanks - will be a bit careful about that.