Scavi Tour - Have a reservation and am excited, but what's so great about it?
Aug 24th, 2005, 01:04 PM
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Scavi Tour - Have a reservation and am excited, but what's so great about it?
Being somewhat smuggly secure with a confirmed tour reservation (after waiting for 3-4 months to receive it) and being very excited due to all of the positive comments here, why is it such a great tour? I'm not questioning that is great, but just wondered what makes it so.
Aug 24th, 2005, 01:27 PM
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Heather, you'll be seeing a part of the Vatican (the "underground city of the dead"
that a lot of people who visit the Vatican and St. Peter's don't even know about. I went this past May (and must say with a lot of embarassment that I have not yet written my trip report!) You learn the rich historical background of this place, and see how people thought their family members should be revered and included in celebrations even after they left this earthly plane. You'll see beautifully decorated areas where people were laid to rest, replete with mosaics, and in one case, even some hieroglyphics! In addition to that, you will see the place where they believe the remains of St. Peter are. I went on a day that was pretty warm, and moderately humid outside; it was EXTREMELY humid underground during the Scavi tour.
Buon Viaggio, Bella!
BC
that a lot of people who visit the Vatican and St. Peter's don't even know about. I went this past May (and must say with a lot of embarassment that I have not yet written my trip report!) You learn the rich historical background of this place, and see how people thought their family members should be revered and included in celebrations even after they left this earthly plane. You'll see beautifully decorated areas where people were laid to rest, replete with mosaics, and in one case, even some hieroglyphics! In addition to that, you will see the place where they believe the remains of St. Peter are. I went on a day that was pretty warm, and moderately humid outside; it was EXTREMELY humid underground during the Scavi tour. Buon Viaggio, Bella!
BC
Aug 24th, 2005, 03:02 PM
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Heather, I'm an Atheist and a history buff.
I believe that was an actual Jesus Christ who had an disciple named Peter.
And Peter was crucified by Nero along with alot of other Christians because he blamed them for the Great Fire of 64AD.
This happened in the Circus of Nero aka Circus of Caligula and some type of games (chariot races?, Gladiator fights? or just killing Christians) were also staged there that day.
Those who were crucified in a circus were more like a sideshow, nailed up at the beginning of the events in the center spina. And the races and/or fights (men v. men or men v. animals) were the main events.
It was common for relatives to bribe the soldier/guards for the bodies of their loved ones after the games.
Think of how much the Christians would want the body of an actual disciple of Christ.
And how revered the spot would be where they buried him.
This place would not be forgotten, Christians would always be visiting it and in ~250yrs the 1st church was built over it.
I truly believe based on the evidence that it is the Tomb of St. Peter and very likely that is his one of his bones that you see on the tour.
Those few seconds I viewed them was one of the most moving experiences in my life.
The tomb and a bone of a man who actually followed and lived with Jesus Christ and changed the history of the World. And IMO they are the only physical link we have to Jesus Christ's existance.
It's just such a major part of history, that it can even awe a confirmed Atheist
. Regards, Walter
I believe that was an actual Jesus Christ who had an disciple named Peter.
And Peter was crucified by Nero along with alot of other Christians because he blamed them for the Great Fire of 64AD.
This happened in the Circus of Nero aka Circus of Caligula and some type of games (chariot races?, Gladiator fights? or just killing Christians) were also staged there that day.
Those who were crucified in a circus were more like a sideshow, nailed up at the beginning of the events in the center spina. And the races and/or fights (men v. men or men v. animals) were the main events.
It was common for relatives to bribe the soldier/guards for the bodies of their loved ones after the games.
Think of how much the Christians would want the body of an actual disciple of Christ.
And how revered the spot would be where they buried him.
This place would not be forgotten, Christians would always be visiting it and in ~250yrs the 1st church was built over it.
I truly believe based on the evidence that it is the Tomb of St. Peter and very likely that is his one of his bones that you see on the tour.
Those few seconds I viewed them was one of the most moving experiences in my life.
The tomb and a bone of a man who actually followed and lived with Jesus Christ and changed the history of the World. And IMO they are the only physical link we have to Jesus Christ's existance.
It's just such a major part of history, that it can even awe a confirmed Atheist
. Regards, Walter
Aug 24th, 2005, 03:25 PM
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I'm not so sure that saying "there was an actual Jesus Christ" is saying that's what they called him at the time, any more than saying there was an actual St. Peter would mean they called him a saint while he was alive. I think the poster is just using the current name to refer to a person he believes actually lived.
Beautiful post, Paradise Lost.
Beautiful post, Paradise Lost.
Aug 24th, 2005, 04:02 PM
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FainaAgain, Yes, my mistake and to clear up things further.
When I said "Nero" I meant 'Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus' later called 'Nero Claudius Caesar Drusus Germanicus'.
And when I said "Caligula" I meant 'Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus'.
Thanks Patrick. Regards, Walter
When I said "Nero" I meant 'Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus' later called 'Nero Claudius Caesar Drusus Germanicus'.
And when I said "Caligula" I meant 'Gaius Julius Caesar Germanicus'.
Thanks Patrick
. Regards, Walter
Aug 25th, 2005, 06:39 AM
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BC and Walter, thank you so much for such wonderful responses. I'm printing them out to tuck in my notes to take on the trip. Walter, like many other posts you thoughtfully add to the Forum, this was so interesting to read. It's always a pleasure to benefit from your knowledge. And, BC, I wish that I could bring you along as a private guide ... thank you for all of your posts about Rome. The tip about it being humid is something that hadn't come to mind and is great to know for layering purposes.
I am so excited about the trip and it was wonderful to learn more about the tour (always good to actually know WHY I'm excited). This is a first trip to Rome ... I've always been saving it until there was a good amount of time to dedicate just to the city with a few daytrips. So, now that I have 9 nights and a load of terrific Fodor's notes, I only have to wait another 57 days to go.
Patrick, it took a little more than 3 months from the initial request date (early April) until the response (late July). In the response they let you know that you have to pay via email or fax within 20 days or you lose the reservation. It is 10 Euro per person.
I am so excited about the trip and it was wonderful to learn more about the tour (always good to actually know WHY I'm excited). This is a first trip to Rome ... I've always been saving it until there was a good amount of time to dedicate just to the city with a few daytrips. So, now that I have 9 nights and a load of terrific Fodor's notes, I only have to wait another 57 days to go.
Patrick, it took a little more than 3 months from the initial request date (early April) until the response (late July). In the response they let you know that you have to pay via email or fax within 20 days or you lose the reservation. It is 10 Euro per person.
Aug 25th, 2005, 08:14 AM
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Lucky you, Heather.
My friends and I - a truly ecumenical trio, a Catholic, a Protestant and a non-observant Jew - took the Scavi Tour last November and it was one of the highlights of our visit to Rome. Considering the fact that Rome is one of the most wondrous places on earth, this is saying quite a lot!
Like everyone else visiting St. Peter's, we were awestruck by the magnificence of the art and the basilica itself but once we went on the Scavi Tour, we realized that, in a way, this place was really the spiritual heart of the cathedral. What is also amazing to me is they only began excavating under the church in 1939 and that that throughout the centuries, layers upon layers of shrines, churches and a succession of basilicas have been erected around this humble fisherman's grave. Moreover, seeing the old Roman tombs and what must be one of the earliest depictions of Christ will not be soon forgotten. When our guide pointed out to us the tiny crevice where the remains of St. Peter lay, I felt chills up my spine. Even for a Protestant like me, this is a truly sacred place.
I was also moved by Walter's touching narrative of his own visit. Any place with religious significance that touches the heart of an atheist must be special indeed.
Have a blessed trip, Heather. I'm a little envious!
My friends and I - a truly ecumenical trio, a Catholic, a Protestant and a non-observant Jew - took the Scavi Tour last November and it was one of the highlights of our visit to Rome. Considering the fact that Rome is one of the most wondrous places on earth, this is saying quite a lot!
Like everyone else visiting St. Peter's, we were awestruck by the magnificence of the art and the basilica itself but once we went on the Scavi Tour, we realized that, in a way, this place was really the spiritual heart of the cathedral. What is also amazing to me is they only began excavating under the church in 1939 and that that throughout the centuries, layers upon layers of shrines, churches and a succession of basilicas have been erected around this humble fisherman's grave. Moreover, seeing the old Roman tombs and what must be one of the earliest depictions of Christ will not be soon forgotten. When our guide pointed out to us the tiny crevice where the remains of St. Peter lay, I felt chills up my spine. Even for a Protestant like me, this is a truly sacred place.
I was also moved by Walter's touching narrative of his own visit. Any place with religious significance that touches the heart of an atheist must be special indeed.
Have a blessed trip, Heather. I'm a little envious!
Sep 21st, 2005, 07:29 PM
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The Circus of Caligula and Nero:
Most people relate all Chariot races or gladatorial events of the Julio-Claudians to the older Circus Maximus across from the Palatine, and the actual "Circus" of the early empire is where St. Peters basilica sits now. The obelisk that was brought from Eygpt by the princeps Caligula or CCAESAR. The mammoth obelisk was brought through the port of Ostia. I love going to Rome so your imagination can run wild. By the way I am a Christian and believe there was a Man, Jesus who was and is divine.
Multa Cum Amicita,
Joe Geranio
Most people relate all Chariot races or gladatorial events of the Julio-Claudians to the older Circus Maximus across from the Palatine, and the actual "Circus" of the early empire is where St. Peters basilica sits now. The obelisk that was brought from Eygpt by the princeps Caligula or CCAESAR. The mammoth obelisk was brought through the port of Ostia. I love going to Rome so your imagination can run wild. By the way I am a Christian and believe there was a Man, Jesus who was and is divine.
Multa Cum Amicita,
Joe Geranio
Sep 22nd, 2005, 03:51 AM
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Walter, I don't remember seeing an actual bone, just the tomb ?
I also found it very moving and I am not a greatly religious person.
What was interesting, apart from seeing and hearing about the Roman necropolis, was that the guide related the history of the site and its excavation as a kind of mystery tale - the story of how they thought they'd found the tomb, then the bones weren't right, then they realised it was a dummy tomb in case of descration, the hunt continued, the finding of what are thought to be the real remains, how various popes handled it all... Absolutely fascinating.
I also found it very moving and I am not a greatly religious person.
What was interesting, apart from seeing and hearing about the Roman necropolis, was that the guide related the history of the site and its excavation as a kind of mystery tale - the story of how they thought they'd found the tomb, then the bones weren't right, then they realised it was a dummy tomb in case of descration, the hunt continued, the finding of what are thought to be the real remains, how various popes handled it all... Absolutely fascinating.
Sep 22nd, 2005, 11:05 AM
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Hi Walter, it was a pleasure to read your post and remember our meeting in Trastevere on a lovely March Rome evening. We missed the Scavi tour on our trip, but we wil be sure to see it when we visit Rome again. Will you be returning this winter or spring?
Sep 22nd, 2005, 01:58 PM
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Hi Suki, Probably March again.
It was too bad that you and your husband arrived that day and I was leaving the next.
But you both handled your jetlag well and I see you found your way out of Trastevere and back to your hotel.
It was too bad that you and your husband arrived that day and I was leaving the next.
But you both handled your jetlag well and I see you found your way out of Trastevere and back to your hotel
.
