Marilayne

I have a savings only account no VISA attached to it. My daughter has a savings/VISA account. Just got back from France thinking everything was o.k. until my daughter looked at her savings account and thought money had been stolen from it.

What had happened was that since our accounts are linked all my ATM transactions defaulted to her VISA savings account and my withdrawals were taken out of her account. She can only withdraw a limit of $400 so it over drafted to her savings only account and charged $10 per transaction. (Wells Fargo refunded this when we figured it all out)

I thought I was being smart by not using a Visa attached card in that if I was robbed thieves wouldn?t have my pin#. I was told over and over by Wells Fargo I should have no trouble as long as the ATM used Star or Cirrus. This is not true. Washington Mutual told my Husband the same thing. His savings only card would not work. He had to transfer the money from the savings account to the checking/VISA account. The only reason mine worked is because of my attachment to my daughters account.

I had heard of this happening to a friend of my daughters and thought maybe there was some other reasoning so I proceeded to use my savings card.

Banks don?t seem to know everything so be careful

CarolA

I am very confused.

Are you saying your debit card is only linked to your savings account?
I am not sure why that would be dramatcially smarter then having the card linked to your checking account.

curmudgeon

My understanding on this is that many european ATMs do not distinguish between multiple accounts that are accessible with a single card. They will withdraw from the first account they link to from the card (and it is not at all obvious which one that will be in your normal local usage).

You *might* be able to test the behavior by going to a local ATM and using the "$40 fast cash" or equivalent button, and seeing what account it draws from.

Marilayne

My debit savings card has no visa attached to it and has a Cirrus/Star logo on the back. But since my daughter's is her first card I had a VISA attached to it and I can access it to check up on her. My account in the U.S. is a MMA type savings account and a quick cash transaction comes from here not my daughters.
My husband and I have two accounts with Washington Mutual, his savings (no VISA attached) and our checking. He could not withdraw Euros from his savings account and it did not default to our checking.
The point here is I do not beleive even though I was told by two different banks you can access a savings only account in Europe that does not a a VISA attached.
If your card is lost or stolen any account attached to it can be wiped out using the Visa. My reasoning was that if it was lost or stolen they would need a pin # to acces the account,therefore, keeping my funds safe.

Gretchen

<If your card is lost or stolen any account attached to it can be wiped out using the Visa.>

I do not understand this--what will be wiped out by using a VISA? To get cash from a VISA card you have to have a PIN--and pay exorbitant credit charges.
I have read for a long time on various boards that savings accounts cannot be accessed in Europe. Why not an ATM card?

StCirq

This is all rather confusing, but it what you're saying is that you can't use an ATM card in Europe to withdraw money from a savings account, that's true as far as I know. The machines don't give you options as to which account to withdraw from, and the default is checking account. So unless your debit card is linked to your checking account - no money. Most US banks do not seems to have a clue about this. I had to make special arrangements when my daughter was in England las month to have her ATM card linked to my checking account, because it is normally linked to her savings account, and that would not have worked for her. I agree, it's a hassle, but one that can be circumvented.

Marilyn

"Banks don?t seem to know everything so be careful"

That is the real lesson here! And I have to say my own experience with Washington Mutual (not travel related) was one of everything possible being screwed up.

I thought ATM cards used in Europe always withdrew from your checking account. There have been threads before where people were stuck because they didn't realize they couldn't access their savings account and didn't have enough money in their checking account.

Marilayne

I was told by my bank (again ?)that by using a visa attached to a debit card your account, savings or checking can be wiped out by charging on the Visa part. I only wanted to use cash in France.

I was told by both my banks I would have no trouble using a savings account only ATM card. I read on many boards before I made this decision and was unaware (as were my banks) that this was not possible.

Checking account ATM cards don't seem to have this problem only savings account ATM cards. Be forwarned

Flyboy

While I can't understand your desire to only use cash in France and I have an extreme disaffection for what a radio show host I sometimes listen to correctly terms as "Fake Visa Cards", it was good of you to pass the information for the benefit of others who may have been considering their options. The underlying arrangements between the various financial institutions and customers involved in the transactions at this point are just flat-out leaving you with an inferior tool for the purposes of international travel. Again, it was good of you to pass it along for those who may be unaware.

rkkwan

It is true that with a VISA/Mastercard checkcard, if it's stolen, people can use it to make purchases (until you report it stolen), and money will come out from your checking account immediately. Purchases do not require a PIN.

And it's also true that ATM machines often will only deduct from your checking account. Therefore one should transfer money from their savings account over to their checking account before travel so that the money is accessible with the card from overseas. Otherwise, you either cannot get money, or you'll get charged a overdraft fees by your own bank to move money from the savings account to the checking account.

SalB

Unless you live in an area where a lot of people travel internationally, don't talk to your local bank. They just don't know and hate to admit it. Call a regional office and ask to speak to someone familiar with international finance. They will be able to help you.

If you can't find this person, look for a brochure at your bank for ordering euros. It should have a phone number on it and that will get you to someone with the information you need.

I didn't follow all of the above, but we use a debit card from our checking accounts and have had no trouble. We use a credit card for most purchases so we don't need many euros.

Bob_C

We changed from a Debit/VISA card to a card that was just an ATM card. We did that after we found out that if we lost the card someone could use it as a charge card and empty our checking account. That is a problem we didn't need in the middle of a trip. Our bank kept saying that they would replace any stolen funds, but replacing the money after we return from our trip doesn't help us pay for things while on the trip.

Melnq8

Withdrawing money from savings accounts with an ATM card doesn't work in Switzerland, Germany or Dubai either (I've tried). Even if the savings account is the ONLY account attached to the ATM card.

We learned this the hard way, after getting an ATM card through our US bank specifically for use while traveling. We don't have a checking account at this particular bank and we were assured the card would work anywhere that accepted Cirrus.

StCirq is right - US banks don't have a clue about this. Even when we called them from Europe to try to straighten things out, it took them forever to figure out what happened.

So, next time we're in the US, we'll have to set up a checking account just so we can use our ATM card. Weird, but true.

CaboSanLucas

I took 2 ATM cards with me to Italy, one linked to my checking account, and another (vacation fund) that is linked to a savings account at a Credit Union. I was unable to get any money out of the savings account, kept getting a message that said the Bank did not approve the transaction. I emailed my Credit Union, and they responded that European Banks did not allow a withdrawl from a savings account.

aeiger

Hi flyboy
you listen to him also. My wife gets furious when he gives out erroneous information especially about certain airlines.

mikemo

Sad but true, Banks are not in business to make us happy!
M

Seamus

Aha - this may help explain the problem I had in Paris last Fall. My ATM card with MasterCard logo links to either savings or checking (here in US I have to specify which to use) and it just would not work to withdraw funds at any of several paris ATM's. I emailed my bank (Chase) who said try using the cash advance feature, and they refunded the service charges when I returned home.
Sounds like I need to call my bank again and be sure that the default is for the card to link to my checking account, n'est-ce pas?

djkbooks

There are a few complexities here...

A "debit" or "check" card with a Mastercard or Visa logo is NOT a credit card. How such a card is "attached" to your account(s) depends upon how you've set them up.

If you have many accounts "linked" to one another, and have "overdraft protection", a debit/ATM card is truly dangerous to be carrying around.

The very best bet for cash withdrawals when traveling is an ATM only card.

ATM/debit cards are a bit dangerous to carry around. While, if lost/stolen, no on can withdraw cash at an ATM without your PIN, your balance could potentially be easily/quickly wiped out, without your PIN, when used for purchases at any vendors accepting Mastercard/Visa.

Problem is - you DO NOT have the same "rights of recovery" if your DEBIT card is lost/stolen, as you would with a CREDIT card.

greg

Add me to the list of those who say banks don't have a clue.

If you think about it, you would realize why this is the case. Since an ATM card (whether with or without MC VSA logo), is "usually" linked to a checking account, whether they knew this was how it should be set up to work properly or not, the customer can get the money and the bank gets no complaints.

For a very very small population of customers who use the ATM card overseas and linked only to the savings account, what does the bank lose if the card does not work? Really almost nothing.

So either way, there is no incentive of any sort to train any branch staff nor even the front end 800 customer support regarding the setup needed for ATM cards to work in Europe.

I also got stuck with a non functioning ATM card linked only to a savings account. But since I never trusted "it should work" (empty) assurance by the bank, I also had two other ATM cards linked to two other different checking accounts.

Like others, I now carry only real credit cards and ATM cards without VISA/MC logos.

clevelandbrown

I have multiple banks. My local bank hasn't a clue about overseas activity. Another bank I use caters to military services, and they are expert on overseas activity. The recommendation of my expert bank was that I open a checking account (I already had a savings account) and get an ATM card associated with the checking account to use overseas (I think they also suggested a four-digit PIN, but that might be dated advice; they did point out that I should memorize the numbers of the PIN, not the letters, as many overseas ATMs dont have letters). They don't charge for use of the ATM card (most stateside ATMs do impose a fee, which my bank reimburses, up to a limit; I have never come across an overseas ATM that imposed a fee), but the network does impose a 1 percent fee (many stateside banks add a second fee for overseas transactions), and I get the best exchange rate, far better than I have ever seen from a currency exchange. I can transfer money between accounts through the internet. Dealing with this bank is like heaven compared to what we used to have to go through with travellers checks and wire transfers.

So my advice is to find a bank that is knowledgeable in the area of overseas bank processes, and that has a good fee structure, and solve your problems that way.