Safety and Security
 

Hi everyone.
My wife and I are travelling to Italy in February to celebrate my 50th birthday. We will be spending time in Rome, the Veneto region, Verona, Turin and Milan.
I have a couple of questions for the travellers here.
1. In a general sense, how safe are these places, especially Rome and Milan. We will be staying about 5 minutes from Termini Station in Rome, and in the Navigli in Milan. Any suggestion to be aware of.
2. We will be in Milan on my birthday. Obviously we would like to do something special. Suggestions? Any and all will be appreciated.
Many thanks.

Perfectly safe. Obviously, be aware of pickpockets in any busy space anywhere, but that is a 'given'. Violent crime is very very rare - much rarer in Europe than in the USA, for example.

Milan's an interesting place - cathedral and main square are nice to wander.

I have a fave typically Italian restaurant near Milan Centrale that is worth considering, not expensive just good - https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restau..._Lombardy.html

In fact, last time I was in Rome I stayed 5 min walk from Termini, and doing what I do (train travel website) I walked back and forth at all times of day and night, no worries at all.

For the same reason, I'm also used to hanging around Milan Centrale at all times of day and night, again no worries.

Last time I was near Termini station in Rome, someone tried the 'ice cream-on-clothes' scam and got his handkerchief out to wipe it. I knew what he was up to, took my cases and walked off briskly. You just need to be aware of the surroundings.

Yes either area is fine, I stayed near Milan Centrale one year for a week, a little interesting but basically the pimps don't want violence on the streets in that area so very quiet at night near the station.

Navigli is a bit away from Centrale and certainly I liked the look of it.

Very safe, as others have said. Lots of scam stuff, but everything I encountered was pretty typical city stuff. A beggar offered to “help” me buy a ticket out of the machines at the train station, didn’t back off until I raised my voice a bit. Restaurant touts or street hawkers were more aggressive than the beggars. Just don’t make eye contact, keep moving.

I wore a money belt on travel days because I feel a bit more vulnerable with my luggage. And it made me feel better on Rome buses too, which were so packed that I would not felt anyone rifle through my pockets. Crowds are probably less of an issue in Feb, though.

Navigli is a fun and interesting neighborhood in Milan, so I wouldn't trade it for the train station area. As for your birthday special event, what do you like to do? Some people would think it fun to splurge on shoe shopping in Milan, somebody else might enjoy a "cake crawl" (Milan has many wonderful pastry shops), and somebody else might opt for a daytrip out of town for lunch with a spectacular view in Lago di Como, or an art excursion to nearby Pavia to see the Certosa, or head down to Bologna for a pasta making class

Wear a money belt.

(By the way, as far as I know, Noblesse Oblige sherves seafood only, so make sure you're in the mood for that if you go).

Street scams are a possibility, never threatening bodily harm. Sad to say, be rude to sudden approaches. Don't talk, no eye contact, move on. If impeded, raise your voice and glare.

We recently came back from a week in Milan and had no concerns about safety whatsoever. Of course we are almost always vigilant and aware of what's going on around us. Last year we stayed twice near Centrale, and while it is incredibly busy and has some unsavory characters hanging aound outside, we never felt threatened at any time of day or night.

This tme we rented an apartment not far from the cathedral, on a quiet street in a neighborhood full of interesting little shops and cafés and restaurants. Don't have any great restaurant recommendations for you, as we mainly cooked at the apartment (often with wonderful things from Peck).

We were not impressed with Navigli, though I'd rather stay there than by Centrale. It gets a lot of hype and looks enticing at first glance, but we didn't come across much of anything noteworthy, and the flea market was just awful compared to most we've visited. I'm sure more research will drum up some gems you can enjoy there, though.

Our favorite Milan experience was the Museo della Scienza e della Tecnologia, which came as a surprise to us, though wwe knew we were going to enjoy the Da Vinci models. And Peck is just extraordinary.

(By all means go to Peck to gawk at all the other tourists, but actually shop in the neighborhood markets, where you won't be charged tourist prices)

Safety is a relative characteristic. To what location are you comparing to? Location mentioned are safer than where I live now but less safe than where I grew up.

Along the Grande Naviglio, there are lots of trendy bars and restaurants. The market, called the Fiera di Sinigaglia, along the naviglio, is a flea market, with cheap imported junk thrown in. It takes place on Saturday mornings. It's a bit like the Porta Portese market in Rome, but smaller. To me, it's fun, but I wouldn't look for treasure there.

The Fiera di Sinigaglia makes two historic allusions. Sinigaglia is an old name for Senigallia, in Le Marche. (I live near there.) There is a historic fair there every August, since medieval times.

The Fiera di Sinigaglia is also the name of an 18th century comic opera, with libretto by Carlo Goldoni. The flea market of that name in Milan must be fairly historic also, because my husband used to buy stuff there long ago when he was a university student in Milan.

In Milan, we thought this was fun.

https://www.atm.it/en/AltriServizi/T...ATMosfera.aspx

The food was better than we expected but not great. The diners were overwhelmingly tourists. For some, that makes it "touristy," but we enjoyed the evening a lot.

We've also been to a concert at La Scala. Wonderful...

I always think it funny when people make broad unsubstantiated statements about how all of Europe is so much safer than all of the US. Europe has no crime, it's just a nirvana and like Disneyland.

https://www.thelocal.it/20160222/see...place-in-italy

Milan has the highest theft rate in all of Italy.

In fact, last time I was in Rome I stayed 5 min walk from Termini, and doing what I do (train travel website) I walked back and forth at all times of day and night, no worries at all.

For the same reason, I'm also used to hanging around Milan Centrale at all times of day and night, again no worries.>

My experience has been the same - always stayed near Termini because of trains BUT I would not say no worries too much as that implies you should not take proper precautions - good to be a bit worried especially in the station and front concourse and in any tourist spot and metro - I've seen the old scams being done there and naive tourists are great targets.

Be a little worried and that is good as then you take proper precautions and then there are no worries.

I was in Termini once looking at the departures board and several suspect types (being PC here) came up and asked me about times - in English - they may have been sincere but I got out of there fast - unfortunately be very leery of anyone coming up to you - especially if more than one to avoid the old distract and others snatch routine.

There have been many reports of folks being victimized in Rome on Fodor's and again if you know the ropes and take precautions then nothing to worry about.

I am actually shocked at the level of criminality described in this one thread, and then waved off as normal. Excuse me, it's not normal! When was the last time you read about travel to any American city that was laced with warnings about how to avoid such crime??

Thank (insert applicable religious figure) for the Europe Forum. It was here I read about the pickpockets on the Naples - Sorrento train. Took the train and by golly there they were. It was like watching a movie when I had already read the book. Move along crooks.

It was here I read about thieves using babies to distract people in Termini station. Got to Termini station and someone tried to distract me with a baby. And it still almost worked.

And this “just take normal precautions” advice is pure bunk. We don’t face these pros and their tactics where we live.

May (insert religious figure) bless this forum and its safety threads.

Some people do face that kind of thing in the US. All of the scams I encountered Italy and Paris were things I’ve seen in Portland/DC/Seattle/SF. except the three cup thing, I’ve never seen that in America and I still can’t believe they find tourists that are that gullible on a regular basis.

But European beggars are a lot more aggressive and I probably would have fallen prey to pickpocketing in Italy if it weren’t for the forums. That really isn’t a common crime in the US. So like xcountry, I am grateful I’d read here first. And I do know plenty of friends and family who would be scammed because they’re more likely to visit Europe while they’ve rarely been to major US city. There have been a few incidences in Seattle that guests of mine have nearly been scammed or stolen from. Because they look like clueless tourists and they don’t listen to me when I say DO NOT ENGAGE. Because it’s “rude”. You don’t need to be polite to someone who comes up to you on the street or the subway and starts talking to you. Strangers do not normally talk to other strangers on the bus.

So I really do see these threads as useful. They can be a little alarmist, it’s true. But if it means that someone doesn’t come back and post about how they got their wallet stolen out of their pocket on an Italian train, then it’s served it’s purpose,

And Christina- much of the crime described in that link is not applicable to tourists. Vandalism, prostitution, organized crime, murder- very unlikely to involve tourists. It’d be like me telling tourists to my hometown that we have gang issues and drive by shootings. We do. But the gang issues are a school disease, and the drive by shootings would only happen near a tourist if the tourist hung out with gang members or rented an Airbnb in a really bad part of town. So in other words. The tourist would have to be unusually stupid or looking for trouble for it to be an issue at all. It’s not that Europe is crime free utopia. It’s just that for the most part, tourists aren’t going to encounter the crime except the people who specifically prey on tourists at train stations or the Spanish Steps.

I think the difference is that we Americans don't like this fussy pickpocket and scam routines. We prefer to stick a gun in the your face and take what we want. We're straightforward folk and like to get down to business -- enough with the European finesse!

It has been a while but I didn't care much for the area around the Termini station in Rome. It may have improved but there seemed to be more unsavory characters in that area than in other areas. If you are concerned, you might consider changing hotels. If you are committed to your accommodations, I would just keep your eyes open and wear a money belt.

I live in a pretty big American city. Not only have I not heard of an armed mugging in my city in the areas a tourist might frequent, I haven’t read about such occurrences in the touristy part of any American city.

So let’s please stop suggesting that we should be grateful to be scammed and pickpocketed in the great cities of Europe because at least we’re not being held up like in America!

I’m fairly certain fra diavolo was joking, newbe. No one is suggesting that Lol. I definitely felt safer as a pedestrian in Europe than I do in most major US cities. Maybe the exception is NYC, which is also very pedestrian oriented. Lots of people around all the time. I’ve met people who have been mugged in both Chicago and SF.

The area around Termini felt a bit seedy or scruffy. I wouldn’t stay there as a solo female, I don’t think, but I wouldn’t hesitate if I was with someone. I did check it out because the nicer hostels are there, and I would have been uncomfortable at night. But I am perhaps overly cautious.

Thank you to all who have replied. As an Aussie travelling overseas for the first time, all of your input is appreciated, especially the info regarding scams and distraction techniques - not something I have ever had to contend with, even when visiting our major cities.

Please keep the suggestions coming - every little bit helps!

Cheers.

<i> Be a little worried and that is good as then you take proper precautions and then there are no worries. </i>

Nicely summed up by Pal.

Scarecrow, I've seen the ketchup trick in Wellington, not a million miles from you, and in Sanfrancisco at the docks.

City scapes and tourists who knew?

Scarecrow - a few observations.

1. The Navigli has improved (and is constantly improving) since the various works carried out related to Expo 2015 in Milan.
2. Although most think of the Navigli as the Naviglio Grande, there are various other navigli in Milan. Naviglio means canal.
3. I thoroughly recommend a dinner or lunch at Al Pont de Ferr on the Naviglio Grande near the Iron Bridge (hence the name in Italian). See - http://pontdeferr.it/en/ This is an excellent restaurant with some surprise dishes.
4. If art interests you consider visiting the Fondazione Prada in Largo Isarco which is about a mile and a half walk South East from the Naviglio Grande - http://www.fondazioneprada.org/?lang=en

While the immediate area around Termini is laced with some scuzzy figures, they're certainly not limited to that area by any means, and once you get a couple of blocks away, you hardly see any at all. I stay about 5 minutes from Termini, right in front of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, and I've never felt unsafe there. Furthermore, it's a lovely hotel, and about half the price of the same caliber hotel located in the Piazza Navona area.

<i> Al Pont de Ferr on the Naviglio Grande near the Iron Bridge (hence the name in Italian) </i>

Nochblad, that's not very Italian! It's Milanese dialect. The Italian would be "al Ponte di Ferro". I'm sure you know that, but I mention it for the benefit of those readers who are learning Italian.

molte grazie bvlenci

I almost always stay in the vicinity of Termini station, and walk around the area after dark. One should always be alert, but I don't consider it a dangerous or worrisome area at all. There are always plenty of people about, which makes me feel safe.

Some of the scams mentioned here are also found in American cities. I lived for years in Philadelphia and have seen a few of them there, plus a few more that may be local. The mustard trick is found all over the world. It has many variations, such as the bird-shit-on-your-back trick, which doesn't even require squirting, as you can't see it.

I've been to Rome many times, more than I can count, and have never seen any of these tricks or scams there, although I'm quite sure they exist. (A friend of my daughter once was a victim of the squirting trick in Rome.) I could say, the same as scarecrow, "I've never encountered such things in the country where I live."

bvlenci - haha!

What is Al Pont de Ferr in dialetto Marchese?

I have lived in Italy over 35 years and do not understand the dialect of Como, Milan or Ticino. Neither do my children or even my wife who was born in Como.

In 1982 I arrivd in Como and I did not speak any Italian and communicated with my in-laws in English but principally in French as was the usual "diplomatic" language at the times.

She thought that it might help if we went to the Cineforum - a showing of current Italian films followed by a discussion. Along we went with the first film being with Massimo Troisi and Lello Arena - Ricominciamo da Tre - all in Napoletano dialect. Most of those in Como could not understand it let alone me.

Being a Cineforum there was a follow-up discussion. As an obvious foreigner I was asked a question about the film. My honesty in saying that I couldn't understand anything won a lot of points amongst tose from Como who were embarassed to admit that they also had problems in understanding the dialect.

The bird-shit-on-your-back thing is sometimes the real deal. Really sucks when it happens on your head (and it does).

I once got bombed by a pigeon, direct hit on the head, when we were going to an exhibit with a local art group.

In a similar situation when I was a child, a friend of my family said, "Aren't you glad cows don't fly?"

I was unable to post my reply, Nochblad, about our marchegiani dialects, and I'm now too sleepy to retype it. I'll try to get back to it tomorrow.

Le Marche has a number of quite different dialects, deriving from ancient settlement patterns. A friend of ours is an expert on the subject, and, if I remember correctly, the two main divisions are between the northern area, mainly Gallic, and the southern, mostly Picene, area.

Our small town has a somewhat different dialect even from neighboring towns. I've noticed that people who live in the countryside in the southern part of our town have a speech with some features of the next town.

I still have trouble understanding a very strict dialect, but so does my husband, who has lived here his entire life, except for secondary school and university years.

Some features of our dialect:

A slight tendency to pronounce ci- and ce- like sci- and sce-.
Many different words:

Andare (to go) -> gire (from Latin ire)
Tutto (everything) -> nicó (from "ogni cosa")
Use of intendere (to understand) for sentire (to hear)
Lei (she) -> lia
Lui (he) -> lu
Use of erto (erect) for spesso (thick)
Use of mollo (soft) for bagnato (wet)

In the province of Macerata, there is a very interesting dialect which has conserved the neuter gender, from Latin. It has also preserved many words that are closer to Latin than standard Italian is.