GymCoach

I'm moving to Sicily permanently and am wondering where the safest town to live is, near Palermo. I'm not a fan of the big city, but need to be kind of close to start a gymnastic / fitness business and need to be where lots of people are.

nytraveler

Have you developed a business plan?

Understood the market for fitness facilities in that part of the world.

Looked into competition and potential profitability?

Talked with a local attorney about starting a business?

I should think you would be more interested in locating the demographic that will patronize a fitness facility - not just crime statistics.

suze

If I were moving somewhere "permanently", I would rent for the first year or two in order to find a place that best suits you. There is so much more than merely "safety" to consider here.

GymCoach

Excellent questions and comments!

nytraveler: A business plan: Yes.

The market in Sicily: I've tried checking from the US but it's been difficult getting any information. What little I learned, no one returned my emails!

I will also target the cheerleading, parkour, special needs markets in addition to high performance and recreational gymnastics market.

I am a mechanic and a machinist and will bring the tooling with me to earn a living, if I have to, but my true love is working in sports.

I have not contacted an attorney.

Suze: I'm from Los Angeles. Crime is a big part of life here and I want to avoid it in Italy. I'm probably over reacting but it is burned into my brain. I'm sure I will rent first. I'm just trying to find out as much info from here as possible...

I appreciate everyone's reply

suze

<bring the tooling with me to earn a living>

Do you have the necessary paperwork already to be allowed to work in Italy?

nytraveler

Have you looked into obtaining residential and work visas (a quite lengthy and complicated process).

But first I would reco an extended visit to Sicily to learn something about the lifestyle there and identify some towns you might be interested in.

Also, are you fluent in Italian - or are you ready to start taking lessons?

TDudette

We made Palermo our base for a visit but it was some years ago. In March. We took a city bus to Mondello and thought it had a nice "vibe". There was a sweet food market right by the water and kids were playing tag football on the beach.

We went there to see the nifty art deco beach house. It is definitely a holiday place but it was busy enough in March. Worth a look as an easy commute but I wouldn't know about business prospects there.

The posters above and you of course realize my comment is based upon a single visit. Much luck with your new life.

suze

There's more than one 'moving to Italy' permanently thread going on now, with people worrying about what to me would be 'later on' type questions like renting apartments, which town to live in, taking Italian lessons, etc.

For a permanent move, first you need permission to be there at all.

TDudette

Here's a question from a non-mechanic but are your tools metric? Do they need to be?

adrienne

Are you sure the Sicilians will accept you and patronize your businesses?

jamikins

Have you been to Italy before? I am curious about why you chose Sicily and why you think it would be unsafe?

annhig

jamikins got in first with the question why Sicily?

a google search may help you with how much competition there is:

http://sicilia.paginegialle.it/sicilia/palestre.html

I also searched gymnasiums in Sicily but came up with a much shorter list, which is why knowing some italian might come in useful, even in the earliest planning stages.

Leely2

The TripAdvisor Sicily forum has several regular posters who live in Sicily. They can probably give you some solid info, or direct you where to look.

Good luck! As a tourist I loved Sicily, especially Palermo.

StCirq

The safest town in Sicily in which to buy a house should be so far down on your list of concerns at this point as to be irrelevant. Here's what you need to be doing, and it will involve lots and lots of time at an Italian consulate:

1. Visa. You surely know you can't just up and move to Sicily on a whim. You have 90 days and then you have to leave.

2. Residency. Once you get past, assuming you do, the Visa hurdle, you'll likely face mountains of paperwork and innumerable trips to tax offices, banks, etc., to get yourself established as a resident (and keep in mind even if you do get a long-term visa, it will have a finite date, beyond which you cannot stay without having satisfied the residency requirements - those being X amount of money assured in the bank and coming in regularly, a clean criminal record, health care, and possibly other things).

3. Business. Even if you obtain residency, you can't just go open a business. This could be your biggest hurdle of all. The amount of paperwork and regulations is likely to be staggering (and it will all be in Italian). I wouldn't even begin to think about this process until your Italian is pretty darn good and you have the entire vocabulary of the tool/gym business down pat - and legal terms and contractual terms and insurance terms and tax terms, etc. Your business plan will need to be in Italian, and you will need an attorney.

4. Language. You're just going to have to be really good at it or it will be impossible to run a business, even if you somehow manage to get the permissions needed to open one. Clients aren't going to be frequenting a place where they can't get really good service in their own language, especially when people would be entrusting their health and fitness to you.

5. Tools. They'll have to be metric. Leave the USA ones at home - won't do you any good.

If this all sounds daunting, it is. I'd get myself to the Italian consulate asap and spend hours reading the Italian embassy website before you do anything else.

Finding a place to live and making sure it's safe can be dealt with a few years down the road when you've got the rest of this sorted out.

And yes, why Sicily? I haven't been there, so can't give you any on-the-ground advice, but from what I know of Italy and Europe, you've probably picked a particularly difficult country to go and live and run a business in. But good luck!

janisj

>><i>I am a mechanic and a machinist and will bring the tooling with me to earn a living, if I have to, but my true love is working in sports.</i><<

stCirq has spelled out just the basics. IME/IMO you <i>might</i> be successful getting a long term visitors visa (that definitely isn't a given) . . . but the odds of getting a work visa/permit are slim/none.

You might be able to buy/invest in an existing business (not sure how difficult that is in Italy) but most likely wouldn't be allowed to work there.

GymCoach

WOW! Thank you for all your well wishes and your replies! You are all sweethearts!

I am a dual national, USA / Italy. So no visa or resident permits are needed.

All 4 of my grandparents were from Sicily. I have been there and love Sicily. My blood (and the weather) is calling me home. My cousins live in San Cataldo And Santa Ninfa, but these towns are very small and the Palermo area has the largest population. I should have cousins in Palermo but have yet to find them.

I'm also having medical issues and have no coverage in the US and need to see a doctor as soon as possible.

I'm working on my Italian. My parents both were fluent but wanted me to be American, never thinking I would ever need it. Wrong! Parents: teach your children your mother language!

jamikins: Compared to Los Angeles, I expect Sicily to be safer! I'm just curious on where the bad neighborhoods are and want to avoid them. I don't feel Sicily is inherently dangerous and I'm sorry if I made it look this way.

TDudette: I have both metric and imperial tooling. I've sold all my US voltage tools and the rest are not an issue.

adrienne: I hope so. I am a California state champion gymnastics coach. I'm 50 something and do wild and dangerous gymnastics moves.(I was a trapeze artist in South Africa in the 1980's)! Cheerleading is growing in Italy and will target that market, in addition to Parkour, special needs patients, high performance and recreational gymnastics and general fitness markets. What I will be teaching is unique and hopefully it will catch on.

StCirq: The Italian consulate in the US is worthless. I expect the same cooperation (or lack of) in Italy!

janisj

>>I am a dual national, USA / Italy. So no visa or resident permits are needed.<<

oh - geeze. You might have mentioned that in the first place . . .

Good luck

nytraveler

Leaving out key information is rally not likely to get you the most helpful responses.

Based on the new info you have provided I would be doing research on similar types of facilities in Sicily - where they are and how well they are doing.

I must admit it sounds to me that the market for what you want to do will only be in the very largest cities/among populations with the most disposable income. So I would search for the highest income areas and start investigating opportunities there.

GymCoach

Sorry guys, but I didn't think it had anything to do with the safety of neighborhoods in the Palermo area...

StCirq

Gosh darn! Jeeze, dude, you know, it would have saved me about 15 minutes of typing and thinking if you had mentioned all this to begin with.

I do agree with nytraveler that your business plan should include comprehensive info on what other similar businesses exist in whatever area you're planning on inhabiting,that you need to focus on high-income areas, and that you need to do serious research on the income potential for this type of business in this country. I have, as I have stated previously, no experience in Sicily, but a LOT in Italy, and I haven't noticed a lot of folks who thought they needed a gym to stay fit. A spa up in the mountains in Umbria maybe, but serious workouts? Doesn't jibe very well with what my experience over 30 years tells me about Italians. Sicilians? Don't know, but based on scanty knowledge, think it would be even more unlikely.