Russia, who will still visit

Old Aug 15th, 2008, 06:04 AM
  #41  
 
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<<Somehow people managed to instill an enormous amount of love and admiration for America into the minds of many younger Russians. >>

I agree. The pop culture still idolizes and emulates America. Speaking American English is very cool . I hardly recognize Russian anymore for all the americanisms...
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 06:24 AM
  #42  
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There are those we hurt or hate who are far away and cannot get back at us while there are others who can. That makes it "in our back yard",with each of you in your own private life you have to make these decisions. This is one of those tipping points in history and with the wealth and chess playing skills of Russia then it may mark the end of the American Empire.

So think clearly before you step into that dark night.

After all how was Iraq going to hurt you?
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 10:00 AM
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When the U.S. invades more countries than any other state it's ok because there is always a ready excuse. Pick one: spread of democracy, fight for freedom, our national security interests, genocide, containment etc.

God forbids Russian or any other country tries to do the same. All hell breaks loose. I guess it's ok for some but not ok for others...
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 12:24 PM
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It wasnt okay when the US govt. did it and its not okay for any other countries' govt. to do it.this is not civilization advancing - it's retrogression to the behavior of the Soviets under Stalin.

I dont knowingly buy products from countries that kill and violate human rights and although I have had several opportunities to do so, I haven't visited China and dont intend to, nor Russia either. Haven't been to Egypt or the Arab countries and dont intend to either. Traveling around with truckfuls of soldiers accompanying you is not my idea of siteseeing.

American Empire? we are not supposed to be an empire and a colonizer.

The end of America as an economic power occurred the moment junior stole the presidency.

The end of America as a super power with any moral authority has occurred during his occupancy of the WH.Unfortunately the rest of the govt. was in on it with him - no difference today between Repbulicans and Democrats - they are one. And the Congress is bought by the lobbyists for multinationals, oil companies, pharmaceuticals, insurance companies. What was a country for the people is now well on its way to third world country status - has no concern for the people and the people have no say or influence. The middle class is disappearing and that middle class is what has made the country of opportunity that it was. Now with no govt. controls and regulation, and the destruction of all the laws and rules and safety nets put in place by FDR, you have the top 1 % of the population earning more than all others and owning 98% of all wealth in the country. the return of the "Gilded Age" -the rich and the peasants is what they want, an old European caste system.

America , I hardly recognize you.

And I hear again and again from American working people " I feel sorry for my kids, because they will never grow up like I did or have the opportunity and the life I have had ".

So much for the common American man and woman not understanding what is going on in this country and the world.
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 01:59 PM
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Mayha2 wrote: "I dont knowingly buy products from countries that kill and violate human rights"

A key word there is "knowingly"; it is a very difficult personal policy to implement. Chances are that you buy quite a lot from such countries without knowing that the goods originated there. That is particularly true if you consider the content of manufactured items, which might contain materials from countries of which you disapprove.

That said, I applaud your intention. I try to implement a similar policy, perhaps with a different list of countries. [No, I don't intend to post my list.]

On the question of visiting Russia: it's not an issue for me, because Russia is low down on my list of target destinations anyway, so I don't have any decision to review.
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 02:18 PM
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From what I understand, South Ossetia has been within Georgia's border since Georgia became it's own nation. It's not part of Russia, although it's citizens have been rapidly issued Russian passports.

I have no idea at this point what did actually happen within S. Ossetia by the Georgians, other than what Russia has claimed. If it was criminal, I would think this should be presented at the UN, World Court, etc. However, instead, Russia seemed to quite suddenly have a mass of troops ready to roll across the border. So who knows? Saviors or bullies - I don't know enough yet to decide for myself. I do think it's also interesting Russia's viewpoint that a breakaway republic or region is entitled to self determination -- as long as it's not Chechnya. But that's global politics and I try not to let it cloud my view of a people, especially since I'd not like to be personally judged by the decisions of my own gov't at the moment.

We should be going twice this year, getting an apartment in Moscow for the longer, ~4 week trip. Not a holiday though, we're adopting a child in Moscow and have to go through a court process and much red tape. That is if all the big picture chaos doesn't cause a crash around our ears (again...).
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 04:18 PM
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Clifton
Congratulations on your little one!
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 05:11 PM
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Mahya2 says the US is on its way to "third world country status - has no concern for the people and the people have no say or influence. The middle class is disappearing... you have the top 1 % of the population earning more than all others and owning 98% of all wealth in the country. the return of the "Gilded Age" -the rich and the peasants is what they want, an old European caste system."

Hmmmm - sounds suspiciously like Russia to me. I just came back from there, and I was really surprised how a so called superpower can have such crumbling infrastructure, and let the majority of its people live in run down panelaks, with water that is not drinkable. Old women with no teeth beg next to shopping malls where there are $13,000 dresses for sale. Sure, they have over a hundred billionaires, but the rest of the people drink beer on park benches after work, so they don't have to go home to their 1 bedroom apartments, where 6 people live together.

Then again, when I traveled to China, I saw people living in cardboard boxes. I guess that is acceptable to the government, as long as they think they are impressing someone in the world by hosting athletic games where 1/3 of the athletes drop out because of smog.

By playing with the oil supplies to Poland, Czech Rep, Germany, Ukraine, etc, Russia is certainly sending out the message that they are bullies. You can interpret it any way YOU want to, but as long as they play their games, spend billions of dollars on defense (while a high percentage of their citizens live a substandard life) and then cry "unfair" to the US, Poland & Czech Rep when missle defense systems are installed, they should be considered suspect, at best. Putin is really showing his extra slimy side now (by the way, what does the actual "President" of Russia have to say about all this?!), and I'm very glad that I took my trip before the shenanigans with Georgia transpired.
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 05:47 PM
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Mahya2
"The end of America as an economic power occurred the moment junior stole the presidency."

To be accurate it was when the Democrats took over congress - it happens every time they get some power.

I have no idea where you get your ideas from. The middle class is well and good and the poor we will always have with us.

Yes, there are rich people in America - some earned their money the hard way and some inherited their money - lucky people. But our society is blessed by the money that these people donate to the arts, the less fortunate, churches, hospitals, universities.

My good friend grew up in Bulgaria under communism. She said she was a compliant person and didn't know what freedom was until the communists were out of power. From a very young age she had to stand in water and process tomatoes year after year to earn money to buy her uniforms so she could attend school.

The infrastructure in these countries was left to decay and fall apart.

Give me America with all its "faults".
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 06:07 PM
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Good one "Brats&beer": "But our society is blessed by the money that these people donate to the arts, the less fortunate, churches, hospitals, universities."

The old Soviet block nations have never been philanthropists. There aren't foundations set up where people could donate money even if they wanted to. Thus, I suspect all those Russian billionaires will not be spreading their wealth around, helping their fellow citizens a la Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc...

It is not just Russia that we should be fearing. The entire area surrounding it will be like the Wild West for a long time (probably for a couple hundred years, is my guess). If any of you live in New Jersey, you may have heard the Jersey Guys on 101.5 trying to call the Kremlin around 2:30 PM today. (I was absolutely cracking up, but that is besides the point). There are apparently 2 young children from NJ caught in Georgia right now, and can't get out because of the military presence. If they can make it to the US Embassy, they can get help, but they are in the countryside somewhere, and there was a problem of some sort. I missed the whole spiel, but the radio hosts were on hold with some office in the Kremlin, trying to do their part in rescuing these 2 young kids from a war torn environment.

So, yeah, you guys all take your little "vacations" to wherever you are planning to go... enjoy yourselves ;-)
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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I heard American's are not being treated well in Moscow by a Russian visitor who warned of the turmoils of travel there. Wondering why Padraig will not even consider this a travel destination? Also, why the need for travel insurance if all is fine?
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 06:26 PM
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You should have travel insurance when you go to Russia, anyway, even when everything IS "fine"! I almost used mine several times (due to illness & almost missing my plane), and was glad I had it. Moscow is prohibitively expensive. Suppose you were stuck there for longer than planned, and you needed to book a $400 hotel room for a few extra days? Suppose you or a family member need to be airlifted out? That trip is a no brainer - insurance is a must.
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 07:53 PM
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Is Padraig American? I didn't think so.
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Old Aug 15th, 2008, 08:25 PM
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Brats and Beer:

""The end of America as an economic power occurred the moment junior stole the presidency."
To be accurate it was when the Democrats took over congress - it happens every time they get some power.

I have no idea where you get your ideas from. The middle class is well and good and the poor we will always have with us. "
_____ __ ___ ___ ___

I gather you never read a newspaper or follow financial news. I do. And that's where I get my "ideas" from.

To be correct, I dont care whether you feel the need to defend republicans or bash democrats, the FACT is that the democrats who are no better, did not take over Congress until 2006 giving Bush 6 years to raid the treasury and spread the wealth through a phony war to his major contributors and supporters who are now called " contractors" with no bid contracts in Iraq. And By the way, the bullets and arms used in Iraq were manufactured by a firm which George Junior's father , Pappy had a major interest in -

It must be wonderful to live in your world where everything is sunny and bright and no irritating facts need be acknowledged, such as Katrina and New Orleans, or the rotting infrastructure of this country which is decades past the time of repair - Of course, in your world, no bridges have collapsed in this country. No middle aged men and women are out of work - and have years ago used up their unemployment benefits, no 2 million houses have been foreclosed this year alone, and it wont be your great great grandchildren paying back the loans GWB has taken from China, and there will be no need to raise taxes as soon as he's out of his office to fix the debt he's put us in.

My gawd - could this be Barbara Bush ? who said of the people stuck in temporary shelters in Texas,who had lost their homes, its contents and everything they ever owned: "they're probably living better here than they ever did before."

It;s sad that anybody in this country could be so oblivious to the true state of the country.
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Old Aug 16th, 2008, 01:52 AM
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>The infrastructure in these countries was left to decay and fall apart.
Sounds like New Jersey. Those potholes will remain a lasting impression.
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Old Aug 16th, 2008, 02:26 AM
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You might call it a disproportionate
reaction, but Russia invaded in response to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia egged on, so some say by the US. We are basically back to our old friend oil supplies.

The US has also just agreed a defence deal with Poland.
You can hardly blame the Russians for feeling beleaguered.
George Bush is like a wasp that can still sting when it is dead or dying.
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Old Aug 16th, 2008, 02:30 AM
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Norbert asked: "Wondering why Padraig will not even consider this a travel destination?"

It's not because of being an American and being worried about anti-American sentiment, that's for sure! GaryCA called it correctly.

Neither am I particularly anti-Russian, although I wish they would use their democratic system to choose leaders with different objectives (come to think of it, I have the same view about American democracy).

It's simply that there are other destinations that appeal to me more. Further, Herself has been to Russia; as we usually travel together, her list of unvisited destinations is also a factor in planning trips.

It's not really a question of not considering Russia as a destination. It has been considered, and is low on the list.
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Old Aug 16th, 2008, 03:23 AM
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http://www.uraltourism.com/ural-pics.php
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Old Aug 16th, 2008, 04:23 AM
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The Meddle Olympics!
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Old Aug 16th, 2008, 04:32 AM
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Hi, to say that Georgia was the aggressor for me is the same to say that Poland was the aggressor in 1939
against Hitler's Germany. How can we be so naive...>?
We tend to forget history and it is so easy to blame us,
I am sick and tired of this blaming game.
Oil and gas, (energy) are power , the Russians have it and have understood the importance of having oil and gas in order to have the world in their hands.

I think it is about time that we start re thinking our bans and legal impediments to drill for gas and oil and to have more atomic energy if we continue the insane path of dependancy from our own enemies we shall soon be at their mercy .
The Russians understand this and must be delighted that we do not.
Instead of thinking that we are bugging Russia how about the fact that they building an atomic reactor in Iran>?
It is time to stop blaming America ,it is time to use common sense and see things as they are. History has most of the answers because often it repeats itself.
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