Russia, who will still visit
Aug 12th, 2008, 07:13 AM
#21
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Considering all of the above stated pros and cons, we are going to be in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in early October. This will be my third visit to the former USSR, the first time since 1985 (Gorby's first year). Second visit for my wife.
I personally have no qualms...
political, moral or safety.
IF we judged our foreign travel planning on these and certain other sensitive (or quasi-sensitive) issues, historical or current, there would be little need for a Fodor's Travel Forum...everyone would stay close to home. (Some of our friends and acquaintances do just that, and for those reasons).
Stu
Anyone else going to Russia in October? We just booked a last-minute river cruise, then we're off on our own to Belarus and Ukraine to do some genealogical research.
I personally have no qualms...
political, moral or safety.
IF we judged our foreign travel planning on these and certain other sensitive (or quasi-sensitive) issues, historical or current, there would be little need for a Fodor's Travel Forum...everyone would stay close to home. (Some of our friends and acquaintances do just that, and for those reasons).
Stu
Anyone else going to Russia in October? We just booked a last-minute river cruise, then we're off on our own to Belarus and Ukraine to do some genealogical research.
Aug 14th, 2008, 02:48 PM
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I am planning a trip to Moscow in Nov. and Iam hearing from others that Americans will be treated poorly and charge higher prices for everything since we are American. All directly related to the conflict going on and U.S. trying to step in. Should we change our plans and go elsewhere? Will we regret going because of how we are treated? Love all of Europe but have never traveled to Russia. Thank you for any help.
Aug 14th, 2008, 03:10 PM
#25
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The good thing is that the thoughts and ideas of the current US administration are TOTALLY! ignored over here in Germany (and western Europe too)?!. (Has never been this drastic before)
"Who cares what they think!!! And they won't be in office for much longer anyway.
The Russians know this and that the EU governments oppose the US.
Go there, you'll be fine!, don't worry
"Who cares what they think!!! And they won't be in office for much longer anyway.
The Russians know this and that the EU governments oppose the US.
Go there, you'll be fine!, don't worry
Aug 14th, 2008, 04:22 PM
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IF there is political unrest why go to Russia? With all the wonderful places to go and things to do why stress yourself out over whether you should go or not. Find a better alternative. I have been to Russia and it is okay but not somewhere I want to go back to.
Aug 14th, 2008, 05:30 PM
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Ivy - let us know if it is true that Russia is becoming anti-American as one poster said. She was from Russia and receives Russian newspapers and magazines in the U.S.
When I was there 2 years ago I did not see any anti-American behavior.
It bothered me to see elderly people begging. We were told with the changes they fell through the cracks and had no means of support.
When I was there 2 years ago I did not see any anti-American behavior.
It bothered me to see elderly people begging. We were told with the changes they fell through the cracks and had no means of support.
Aug 14th, 2008, 05:45 PM
#31
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"isn't this akin to "who would visit america because of iraq"?
Ivy:
Do you have any knowledge of world events whatsoever?
Saddam Hussein was credited with:
Murder of several hundred thousands of his own citizens, including the use of mustard and nerve gasses against the Kurds
Jailing political opponents, and commonly utilizing torture in his jails, including tossing them off the roof onto the ground below
Routinely executing internal enemies
Offering substantial monetary rewards to the families of deceased Muslim suicide bombers
Embezzling billions of dollars from his country and stashing it in accounts outside of Iraq
He wasn't known as the Butcher of Baghdad for nothing! He had his two sons assassinate two of his sons in law. Do you remember his associate, Chemical Ali?
He also invaded Kuwait and had to be forcibly removed by a coalition force led by the US - in retreat they bombed oil wells, causing an enormous ecological disaster
He attempted to assassinate a US president - I know there are some morons in the US who feel this was ok because it was George Bush's father, but I would hope we'd do something about it of another country attempted to assassinate Bill Clinton
He was believed throughout the world to be keenly interested in developing nuclear and chemical weapons programs, to be used against neighboring countries. He continually defied any and all UN demands, which were directly tied to his prior actions against his own countrymen and the Kuwaitis.
And these are just the things I can think of off the top of my head!
Look, I can easily understand being against the invasion of Iraq - I was against it myself. But do you honestly believe that there is any equivalence between the situation in Georgia and that in Iraq?
Ivy:
Do you have any knowledge of world events whatsoever?
Saddam Hussein was credited with:
Murder of several hundred thousands of his own citizens, including the use of mustard and nerve gasses against the Kurds
Jailing political opponents, and commonly utilizing torture in his jails, including tossing them off the roof onto the ground below
Routinely executing internal enemies
Offering substantial monetary rewards to the families of deceased Muslim suicide bombers
Embezzling billions of dollars from his country and stashing it in accounts outside of Iraq
He wasn't known as the Butcher of Baghdad for nothing! He had his two sons assassinate two of his sons in law. Do you remember his associate, Chemical Ali?
He also invaded Kuwait and had to be forcibly removed by a coalition force led by the US - in retreat they bombed oil wells, causing an enormous ecological disaster
He attempted to assassinate a US president - I know there are some morons in the US who feel this was ok because it was George Bush's father, but I would hope we'd do something about it of another country attempted to assassinate Bill Clinton
He was believed throughout the world to be keenly interested in developing nuclear and chemical weapons programs, to be used against neighboring countries. He continually defied any and all UN demands, which were directly tied to his prior actions against his own countrymen and the Kuwaitis.
And these are just the things I can think of off the top of my head!
Look, I can easily understand being against the invasion of Iraq - I was against it myself. But do you honestly believe that there is any equivalence between the situation in Georgia and that in Iraq?
Aug 14th, 2008, 05:48 PM
#32
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The escalation by Russia is by no means over yet, and I sincerely suggest that those who have not done so get travel insurance, in case you decide to cancel.
More reports: Putin recently threatened the Ukraine -
Poland (after seeing what Russia has done to Georgia) today has agreed for GWB to place his "protective starwars missiles" in Poland.
That plan of GWB's has been vehemently opposed by Putin - and probably a part of the reason he has invaded Georgia, multiple purposes: not only for the Caspian, but to warn other former parts of Russia not to cooperate with Nato, GWB and his starwar missile placements etc.
Meanwhile I am reminded of what the USA did to Hungary - urged them to rebel - and when the Soviets rolled in with tanks, did not a thing to help them.
It's always a big game of chess and strategy. Putin is not only flipping the bird at GWB but at Obama. He's taking a big chance because if it's McCain instead of Obama - there will be war and I dont think it will be cold war - as Gorbachev on tv
just now thinks - and supports what Russia has done. I recall (cant spell this name)_ Schervenadze was a thorn in Gorbachev's side in the same area, and also precipitated the downfall of the USSR.
Putin is also taking a big chance. Wherever there is
trouble, al q_ _ _ _ ,moves in. It has been reported because of Georgia's actions they wont be admitted to Nato. Perfect pickings for al
q. The US and Nato back off
Georgia - an offer to help them fight a guerilla war against Russia comes- who the mujahadin have beaten before.
Dangerous game. and spreading. The ball is now in Ukraine's court also. And what will the world do, if Putin carries out his threatening words and now invades the Ukraine to stop them from going the way of Poland? and saying they will allow "star wars" on their land also ?
For those who were planning a trip to Russia , absolutely buy travel insurance if you cant afford to lose the money.
More reports: Putin recently threatened the Ukraine -
Poland (after seeing what Russia has done to Georgia) today has agreed for GWB to place his "protective starwars missiles" in Poland.
That plan of GWB's has been vehemently opposed by Putin - and probably a part of the reason he has invaded Georgia, multiple purposes: not only for the Caspian, but to warn other former parts of Russia not to cooperate with Nato, GWB and his starwar missile placements etc.
Meanwhile I am reminded of what the USA did to Hungary - urged them to rebel - and when the Soviets rolled in with tanks, did not a thing to help them.
It's always a big game of chess and strategy. Putin is not only flipping the bird at GWB but at Obama. He's taking a big chance because if it's McCain instead of Obama - there will be war and I dont think it will be cold war - as Gorbachev on tv
just now thinks - and supports what Russia has done. I recall (cant spell this name)_ Schervenadze was a thorn in Gorbachev's side in the same area, and also precipitated the downfall of the USSR.
Putin is also taking a big chance. Wherever there is
trouble, al q_ _ _ _ ,moves in. It has been reported because of Georgia's actions they wont be admitted to Nato. Perfect pickings for al
q. The US and Nato back off
Georgia - an offer to help them fight a guerilla war against Russia comes- who the mujahadin have beaten before.
Dangerous game. and spreading. The ball is now in Ukraine's court also. And what will the world do, if Putin carries out his threatening words and now invades the Ukraine to stop them from going the way of Poland? and saying they will allow "star wars" on their land also ?
For those who were planning a trip to Russia , absolutely buy travel insurance if you cant afford to lose the money.
Aug 14th, 2008, 05:53 PM
#33
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I'll be in Russia the same week as Ivy. I can't wait to go. This has always been my dream trip.
Norbert, from which sources are you hearing that Americans are being treated poorly and charged more in Russia? As for the charging more, I do know that tourists have always paid more than Russians. There is a tourist price for things such as the theatre and a much lower price for Russians. This is well known and not specific to the nationality of the tourist.
Norbert, from which sources are you hearing that Americans are being treated poorly and charged more in Russia? As for the charging more, I do know that tourists have always paid more than Russians. There is a tourist price for things such as the theatre and a much lower price for Russians. This is well known and not specific to the nationality of the tourist.
Aug 14th, 2008, 06:47 PM
#34
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I agree with Travelgourmet and Mahya2. And smetz, I think, is making a strong point, though Saakashvili is no angel, IMO.
I have no doubt Putin is trying to reverse the domino effect inadvertently caused by Gorbachev and put as much of the formerly "glorious" Soviet Union back together, to the extent his oil money and military power will allow. Like McCain, when I "look into Putin's eyes", I see a "K", a "G" and a "B"...
Putin has been carefully planning and executing this for over a decade, since his own PhD dissertaion on restoring Russia's might through oil and gas-based dominance.
Call me a pessimist, but I think Ukraine, Kazakhstan and even Estonia should be very afraid. I hope EU membership of the Baltic states can still deter any action to "protect" hundreds of thousands of Russian nationals still in those countries, but only the time will tell.
For now he successfully turned Georgia into a Yugoslavia, chopping it into bite-size pieces. (He did warn after the Kosovo independence vote.)
In all, quite a tipping point here, IMO...
I have no doubt Putin is trying to reverse the domino effect inadvertently caused by Gorbachev and put as much of the formerly "glorious" Soviet Union back together, to the extent his oil money and military power will allow. Like McCain, when I "look into Putin's eyes", I see a "K", a "G" and a "B"...
Putin has been carefully planning and executing this for over a decade, since his own PhD dissertaion on restoring Russia's might through oil and gas-based dominance.
Call me a pessimist, but I think Ukraine, Kazakhstan and even Estonia should be very afraid. I hope EU membership of the Baltic states can still deter any action to "protect" hundreds of thousands of Russian nationals still in those countries, but only the time will tell.
For now he successfully turned Georgia into a Yugoslavia, chopping it into bite-size pieces. (He did warn after the Kosovo independence vote.)
In all, quite a tipping point here, IMO...
Aug 14th, 2008, 08:16 PM
#36
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Enroute,
"Putin has been carefully planning and executing this for over a decade, since his own PhD dissertaion on restoring Russia's might through oil and gas-based dominance."
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
I didn't know that. It explains his grab and privatizing of oil companies, arrests of the owners;the things you learn on Fodor's.
Too bad no one in DC has had the sense to read his dissertation.
Watch out for short slight men with Napoleonic complexes. Or those with Messianic complexes too.
"Putin has been carefully planning and executing this for over a decade, since his own PhD dissertaion on restoring Russia's might through oil and gas-based dominance."
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
I didn't know that. It explains his grab and privatizing of oil companies, arrests of the owners;the things you learn on Fodor's.
Too bad no one in DC has had the sense to read his dissertation.
Watch out for short slight men with Napoleonic complexes. Or those with Messianic complexes too.
Aug 14th, 2008, 11:28 PM
#37
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<<Iam hearing from others that Americans will be treated poorly and charge higher prices for everything since we are American>>
Nobody in Russia cares if you are American or any other foreign national, everyone in Moscow will go about their daily business without a thought to recent events. There are so many foreigners there, either visiting or living. I was there during the Russian White House attack in the early 1990s and during 1998 during the economic collapse and during communist times mid to late 1980s.
As for the higher pricing, this point is often misunderstood, it's quite common in some countries to have different pricing for foreigners or nationals.
Nobody in Russia cares if you are American or any other foreign national, everyone in Moscow will go about their daily business without a thought to recent events. There are so many foreigners there, either visiting or living. I was there during the Russian White House attack in the early 1990s and during 1998 during the economic collapse and during communist times mid to late 1980s.
As for the higher pricing, this point is often misunderstood, it's quite common in some countries to have different pricing for foreigners or nationals.
Aug 15th, 2008, 12:13 AM
#38
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Somehow people managed to instill an enormous amount of love and admiration for America into the minds of many younger Russians.
FrankS already posted the facts on this conflict.
Looks like a few others posters here watch Fox News.
FrankS already posted the facts on this conflict.
Looks like a few others posters here watch Fox News.
Aug 15th, 2008, 05:27 AM
#39
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People aren't staying away from China, are they, with it's support of heinous regimes all over the world, Sudan, Ruanda, etc.? Not to mention it's horrible human rights record internally. Why the prissiness about Russia? It's just like when people wouldn't go to France because of the Iraq War. It will blow over.
Aug 15th, 2008, 05:40 AM
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<<Looks like a few others posters here watch Fox News.>>
..or grow up in Moscow and spend every summer in Abkhazia..
Which is not to say that FrankS doesn't have a point or two
I just heard Medvedev in joint press-conf with Merkel assert that the will of the two peoples is to be free of Georgian domination and Russia will assure that it takes place. Made me think of the will of the Chechen people... Couldn't help but note the very sour expression on Merkel's face. Bye, Bye, Georgia...
PS. I thought Medvedev made a half-decent press-secretary for Putin, while the prime-min. is apparently in North Ossetia directing operations. Convenient..
..or grow up in Moscow and spend every summer in Abkhazia..
Which is not to say that FrankS doesn't have a point or two
I just heard Medvedev in joint press-conf with Merkel assert that the will of the two peoples is to be free of Georgian domination and Russia will assure that it takes place. Made me think of the will of the Chechen people... Couldn't help but note the very sour expression on Merkel's face. Bye, Bye, Georgia...
PS. I thought Medvedev made a half-decent press-secretary for Putin, while the prime-min. is apparently in North Ossetia directing operations. Convenient..
