russia and scandinavia itinerary -final touches please comment
 

hi everyone
it's been a long time in the planning and it's not perfect i know....
we leave on a 10pm flight on cathay pacific flight to hong kong at 530 am last week of may 2009
our next flight to HELSINKI is at 930am - thats going to be a killer hanging round the airport-- hope we can sleep on the plane ok

arrive in HELSINKI at 3pm so realistically we should be in our Sokos Hotel Helsinki around 5- 530pm
We will need to hot-trot round the town seeing the sights and check where the ferries leave for Tallinn...we really dont have much time in Helsinki because we have chosen to go to

Tallinn by fast ferry ( 2hrs each way) the next morning for the whole day... i think the fast ferry leaves round 8 am and we will catch the 530 back to helsinki and have another quick look around

any suggestions? im thinking the senate square and the harbour area..the rock church...
anything else helsinki experts??
basically we have just two evenings allocated for helsinki so just want to walk around unless theres something really worthwhile in a short tram trip

the next morning we fly to MOSCOW for 3 nights
we arrive round midday so should be sightseeing by the late afternoon
we are staying in an apartment - arbat deluxe in the arbat area so i guess we will stick around there- maybe venture up to the kremlin

the next day is a saturday- we will spend it trying to see a town in the golden ring
we might have to arrange a private car with driver because our chances of getting to suzdal are slim using public transport - we are talking day trip here...
failing that we will just opt for SERGEI POSAD
just want to get out of moscow for a day

our next day is Moscow again- a sunday - going to throw myself into research here for some interesting walks/ metro rides
we are not into spending hours in museums or shopping arcades but we will pop into GUM
dont know about Lenins mausoleum - will depend on the queues
prefer parks and just walking the boulevardes and looking at people -having a coffee somewhere

the next day we have a bit of the day in Moscow but will be preparing to set off by the evening train to St Petersburg
I hate these kind of days when youre not sure what to do with your luggage-(check out is at 12) and youre always clock watching to see that you dont miss your train/plane whatever
can anyone recommend anything to see around the station ?
can we leave luggage safely at the station i wonder?
we will be travelling 2nd class ( first class is double the price) so will be sharing with two others probably- im in for a rough night i guess!

we arrive in ST PETRESBURG on a tuesday and have four nights to play around with
i really want to go to NOVGOROD for a day trip - it is about three hours away- will have to research how best to get there without a guide

if anyone has any suggestions how to spend the other three days?
again we are not into palaces or museums
i suppose we have to visit the hermitage -but unlike most of you i couldnt spend days in there lol lol
two hours max looking at the treasures- i know most will think we are mad...lol

on saturday we will be flying out to STOCKHOLM in the early afternoon and should be at the First Reisen Hotel by late afternoon/evening...
we have 3nights here and i will be looking at ways to spend our two full days ...we are staying right near the old town gamla stan and theres the archipelago to explore i guess
id love to get out of town too - wonder if UPPSALA is a good option as a quick day trip?
sometime the next morning we will be catching a train from stockholm to OSLO
i think it arrives somewhere round 2pm

we get our rental car and head straight to LILLEHAMMER ( we couldnt get decent accommodation in oslo that end of the trip cos of a shipping convention so wechanged out itinerary to fit Oslo at the end)
we have booked the Birkebeineren Hotel/apartment in Lillehammer for a reasonable 990NOK
dont know what to do in Lillehammer -it is not that far from oslo but still a three hour trip ( bout 176km)
theres lake mjosa and a paddlesteamer ride but i think we might be too tired or it may be too late - will see

next day we drive out to GEIRANGER ( pronounced 'GEH' not' GUY' i think) fjord through Andalsnes...we plan to drive the trollstigen ( trolls road) down to geiranger
i have read that it's a bit nicer to drive from north to south ( anyone done it by car?)
our luck we will be stuck behind a tour bus and the lookout points will be crowded with buses ...hmmm

arrive Geiranger in the early evening i guess- staying for three nights at geirangerfjorden feriesenter in a 34sq cabin close to the water i hope ..755 NOK a night ( that included the cleaning fee and linen) a bargain !! finn there was so helpful in all the emailing i have done - he even outlined a possible itinerary for us

we plan to visit ALESUND from geiranger and maybe shoot up to MOLDE the same day trip
we will also drive the DALSNIBBA road to a wonderful view
we can take the car ferry out through to HELLESYLT so thats a cruise as well
we have an extra day - what a luxury!!! ( we really should allocate this day to the BERGEN end of the trip but it might be hard to drag ourselves away from the cabin on the fjord)

the next morning ( saturday) we drive the four hours to BALESTRAND stopping no doubt here and there...
if anyone knows of some cute places give us a yell!
we dont want to make a big day of driving so we might get to Balestrand early afternoon and settle into the Balestrand Hotel- run by a nice family who have also been so helpful on the phone and by email
we are paying 1190NOK for the night... breakfast included
we want to do the self-guided walk round the area and then probably either catch the car ferry / drive to flam crossing at Dragsvik east to Kaupanger and then south to Revsnes and through to Kvigno and Aurland and finally to Flam( 2-3hrs)
or
catch the express boat to Bergen that day- Marija here on the forum warned us that this boat takes a less scenic route to Bergen and is an enclosed catamaran but the advantage for us is that we can leave the car in Balestrand and walk round Bergen and return byt 830 pm and do the fast route of 2hours to FLAM

or we simply do Bergen from FLAM the next day and spend the time after leaving Balestrand around Stalheim Gudvagen and maybe even Voss before going to Heimly Pensjonat in Flam
...this pension was recommended by a friend who said it was good value and quite nice
we asked for an upper floor room which affords a good view of the fjord - i think it must be the naeroyfjord - one of the arms of sognefjord, right?

we plan to do the short trip from flam to MYRDAL by rail since weare not doing any other bit of norway in a nutshell
apparently you can walk part of the way home toflam so that might be an option
have to do a cruise from flam to gudvagen or rent our own speedboat- id like a commentary though

this is part of the itinerary im not convinced about - (staying in FLAM for two nights rather than BERGEN) but like i said - this is the region that seems to be 'speaking' to me- ive read so much about the norway in a nutshell trip that it seems like we should be concentrating on this part of norway
love the sound of STALHEIM, NAEROYFJORD and VOSS

the other option ive been thinking of is staying in Stalheim as a base for two nights and exploring flam etc from there as well as visiting bergen as a day trip
is there any sense in that?
isnt stalheim on a very steep hill ( or is that just the hotel?)
the flam pensjon has been recommended - im guessing the stalheim hotel will be booked out and more expensive- i dont fancy coming up and down that hill though if it is as hairy as i imagine...

flam is not far from GEILO- our last stop before Oslo
so we have a whole day to get there and maybe pop down into the HARDANGERVIDDA national park
or exploreULVIK and EIDFJORDand drive up to Geilo late afternoon
we are booked into Ustadalen Hoyfjellshotell for 980 NOk with breakfast
was tempted to splurge on Dr Holms but it really is a ski resort and was double the price

from Geilo we head for an easy day of driving hopefully - no pressure to arrive some time in OSLO
at what sounds like a wonderful hotel - the gableshus for two nights

we basically have the remainder of the afternoon/ evening ..then a whole day and the next day we will be leaving for the international airport in the afternoon to catch a 5pm flight to london and home

i dont know how much of this itinerary we will follow
the russian bit is set
but norway can still be tweaked here and there since there are no cancellation fees if we change our minds early in the piece

is anyone still reading...lol
hope my mess of thoughts can be untangled and actually inspire someone to drive a better itinerary!
thank you, kind folk!

Just a note on your visit to Tallin. When you get off the ferry just follow the well worn path to the old town. We didn't know where we were going and took a taxi - and it is just a short walk.

The first thing we saw upon entering the old town was a McDonalds. We all went for the fries and Cokes.

This was several years ago and at that time there were several groups of Russian boys walking around old town. We were told to watch our purses and cameras.

The Finlanders go by ferry to buy alcohol in Tallin as it is cheaper and you avoid the high taxes.

As for St Petersburg if you don't like palaces and museums, guess that leaves shopping, eating and trying to stay out of trouble!!

Stavanger is a great place to visit - if your plans aren't set you may want to go that route. Seemed to be a lot of young people in Stavanger.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=preikestolen

Forgot to mention the hike to pulpit rock out of Stavanger. Search for Noway Preikestolen Hike and you will find lots of photos and info.

thanks so much bratsandbeer
have always found your posts helpful
thanks for the tip about tallinn- will look for the path and for naughty russian boys!

ahhh pulpit rock...!
that is off the list
we have decided it is just too far
what with the drive from bergen then the ferry and then the hike itself- we dont have enough days

it was the first pic i ever saw when i flipped open a guide to norway and was captivated
but lifes like that
brad pitt is probably still waiting for my calls but like pulpit rock will have to wait - in another lifetime perhaps ..sigh lol

Hi, lanejohann -

> I'm thinking the senate square and the harbour area..the rock church...
anything else helsinki experts??

If you have time before nightfall, you might consider going to Suomenlinna Fortress Island - it has some lovely walking paths and the ride through the harbor is pleasant.

> failing that we will just opt for SERGEI POSAD

Sergei Posad is amazing! Well worth the time IMO.

> wonder if UPPSALA is a good option as a quick day trip?

Absolutely!

Hope that helps. . .

thank you so much KJA
as soon as i typed rock church in helsinki i realised that i had read somewhere that it is a half day trip out
we dont have that
we will be off the ferry from tallinn and i doubt wed want to go out by boat again but the suomenlinna fortress sounds lovely
if only we had one more day - but finland was really just a starting point cos we're flying finnair- otherwise we wouldnt have gone at all

but thanks for confirming that uppsala in sweden is worth a visit
i just love the name - going to learn how the swedes say it lol
we will shoot for suzdal but im glad that sergei posad is good too- probably more realistic a destination time-wise
thanks for your suggestions
every little bit adds to the picture!

>>>as soon as i typed rock church in helsinki i realised that i had read somewhere that it is a half day trip out


Uh? Where did you read that? It is a short 10 minute walk from your hotel. Or 3 minutes with a tram.

Yes, the rock church is very close - and well worth seeing!

Make sure you get a look at the subways in St. Petersburg. They are very interesting to see. And it is neat just to see a market where typical Russians shop. We also saw some Russian folk singers that we enjoyed, so if you can find some performing it can be a good time.

Also in Stockholm, we enjoyed the tour of the sunken ship at the Vasa Museum.

H Lanejohann:


I think I may have answered some of your curent questions in other posts.

In Helsinki, I think you would lke to see the exceptionally unique Sibelius monument in a beuatiful park, a short tram ride from the centrum..that and the rock church which is in the downtown area. (see my old scanned pix below). You could take one of the local busses (ten minutes) to the model suburban city of Tapiola, beautiful gardens and lovely place to stroll for an hour or so. The Zoo on an island in the harbor is also a unique setting.
Dinner or lunch at the famous Kappeli's near Senate Square, is a treat.

While in Moscow,hopefully you can get to Suzdal which I think is more interesting and rural than Sergei Ploshad. There are frequent busses to Suzdal (see pics). See the changing of the guard, just off Red Square, at the tomb of the unknown soldier...very colorful as they march past the Eternal Flame in brosk cadence. Many newlyweds make a visit here just after the marriage ceremony and lay flowers on the tomb...just at the Kremlin Wall...do see the inside of the Kremlin...onion domes that are beautiful, an 14th century huge cannon, the bell tower, the presidential "white House", etc.

In St. Pete, I think Novgorod is too long a day trip...better spent in the environs of St. Pete...see Catherine's Palace in the town of Pushkin , and take a hydrofoil or catamaran out to the Summer palace in Petrodvoretz. A ballet performance or a folk peformance is possible..just check with your hotel or any local travel bureau.

Yu say you're not into Palaces or Museums..take my words, the aforemention are remarkably different....more for the structures ahn the contenst in some cases...although the Ambe Rom in Catherin'es Palace is a mind-blower.

You guys are in for a great trip, no matter what you decide. I'llbe awaiting your reports...

Here are some old pre-digital scanned photos...


http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/MapUSSR#

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/Finland85#

also some October 2008 pics of today's Russia...my third visit, tw in SSR days.

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/Russia2008#

All best viewed as "slide show", even the old ones (which can also be enlarged by clicking on the magnifying glass icon)

Lanejohann:
Please excuse typos above...bad typist, good guy!(LOL) Anyway, it's my birthday so I can be excused...

stu t.

I can only help with Helsinki and Tallinn, where you may get some ideas from my phototravelogue at http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...&y=-95hdl3

thanks for correcting me Elina
where did i read it? in my own erroneous notes lol

you know what it is like when you first start gathering info from different sources- i just gather randomly not even knowing that i will visit the place so why i thought the rock church was further i dont know!

thank you Tower and happy belated bday!! i have been working hard and not been checking this forum for a few days so it was lovely to come in and see all your pics!!!
very kind of you to go to that trouble ( but i think you really get a lot of pleasure out of helping/guiding people and thats great for all of us... a really wonderful gift!)
SEMI MIKE big thank you to you too- pics are the best way to whet that appetite so your contribution is most valuable--will show OH when he comes back from o/s

about novgorod<Tower...
it is about three hours by fast train or 4 by slow bus to get there and i have been studying the lonely planet guide - i think it is doable
im so glad there is so much daylight at the time we are going
(i have never travelled in winter and there must be special delights of course but for us these longer hours will allow us to see so much more)

i have been looking at pics of peterhof and am looking forward to it
some comment that the ride on the hydrofoil is disappointing and that the approach/view is over- rated but i think wewill still do it - even if it is a means to an end
the trick fountains look really fun!

as for ballets and theatre in russia
not for us
i grew up pn that kind of thing
mum was an interpreter and got free entry to all of the big national acts
many an evening i spent huddled backstage with my mum
used to tour sometimes with my mum when she took performers on day trips
( sat next to mikhail barishnikov once for about four hours on a coach - he was obviously deep in thought, planning to defect cos he never even asked my name even though i had fallen in love with him and his grey leather pants- uber cool_
i was nine years old and so cute i thought...sigh...im not waiting for you anymore, mikhail, by the way if youre searching for me... hahaha)


thanks for all your ideas and help kind folk!
without you id be even more sleepless!