To harzer:
Well I guess you have used the german-knigge for his advice - which is in fact official and good but he should not underestimate that even germans behave different like in any other country from region to region.
check out for more under:
http://www.campusgermany.de/english/4.8.50.html
or go to
http://www.businessgerman.com/business-knigge/home.html
best regards

I certainly have no problem offering a greeting when I enter an establishment such as a restaruant if that is the custom. I always offer a "bonjour" in France, but to change my eating style using forks and knives differently, strikes me as absurd. Am I to be ashaned that I use knives and forks differently where I come from? Of course not! I don't stand around and observe how people hold their silverware where I come from. And I can't imagine the average German caring or despising me that I put down my knife after I cut my food.

My mistake was to let a travelling companion with minimal German to order breakfast for us at our gasthaus while I was out for an early morning stroll - we wanted Schinken but he asked for Schnecke. Oh my.

Interesting thread - even for me being German.

Regarding the tipping issue:

I don't think it makes a difference if you tell the waiter what you expect to be given in change or what sum you are willing to pay. I handle it either way on a random basis.

Despite tips are supposed to be included in the check, it is customary to tip the service person.
Whereas in a cafe, rustic restaurant or a bar it would be sufficient to add up to the next round amount (as a guideline 3% - 5%), in a better restaurant you might as well make it 10%. That about is the limit.

What occurred strange to me was the advice of saying "Guten Tag" upon entering a restaurant and something like "Auf Wiedersehen" or even the cheerful "Tschues" when leaving. This may apply in a rural area where there are only few patrons present and the dining room is only small causing people to make eye-contact. On the other hand I think you would earn yourself some stares of bewilderment and an occasional chuckle when adhering to this practice in bigger cities (at least from reserved Northern types like me :-) ). I would always wonder if you are deperate for attention...

On the other hand, you should of course greet the maitre d' or waiter who meets you at the door or comes around to serve you. But that goes without saying, I presume.

Bottom line: Relax! While this world is becoming more and more international (for good or for worse), manners tend to assimilate everywhere, too (with the exception of holding the cutlery ;-) ) - and even in this respect we have learned to tolerate those American tourists...

Forgot to add:

Regarding holding the cutlery: It appears that among Germans manners are deteriorating anyway, so it won't make such a difference of whether you hold your fork in your right hand and keep the left under the table. Sadly, I hardly notice anyone adhering to the proper way when dining out anymore.

I really do wish you'd hurry up and get to the Rookie Mistakes for Estonia!!!

I ahve to say I really do agree fully with HSV, especially as I live in the " not so straight german acting western/rhenish part of germany

Doesn't get any more of a rookie mistake than the mistake a friend of mine made the first time he landed in Frankfurt before starting with the Air Force.

Right out of high school, didn't speak a word of German. Needed to use a bathroom. Finally found one, but wasn't quite sure which door to go through.

Studied the doors for a moment or two, tried to analyze which was the mens room and which was the womens room.

After much deliberation, he went into the one marked 'Da Men' (Damen) instead of the one marked "Her ren" (Herren)

He really thought that the Damen meant da men. Was he ever surprised when he found out that Damen really meant women.

I was stationed in Germany in the early 70s. My wife was with me. We decided to do a return trip to Germany in 1988...our first visit back. We rented a car. I had brought my 1970 map of Germany to use with the car. It only took me about 2 days to realize that a lot of autobahns had been added in 18 years! My wife still laughs at that one. (I bought a current map and we made much better progress. The sutobahn going south out of Rothenburg was not there in 1971...only small roads)

Advice: Always buy a current map! Also, get a map with the road signs on them. You will need it.

My mistake in Germany: thinking there were only beer houses/gardens. I took my niece to the famous Hofbrauhaus in Munich, and were told we HAD to order beer there (or it would seem sacreligious). We aren't beer drinkers but did as we were told....and only took a sip each. We ended up giving the big mug to a table of friendly Americans across the way.

Later I found out about weinstubes, where I could enjoy wine with my sausages instead! So whenever I have friends heading off to Germany, I let them know about the weinstubes in case they aren't big on beer.

Many years ago I arrived in Frankfurt having just graduated from college with a "minor" in German. I thought I would have no problem. Things were going well until I went to catch a train to my next destination. The announcement came that the train was leaving on "Gleis Zwo". I knew that "Gleis" meant "platform", but I had never heard of "Zwo" and figured it was probably meant "Zwolf" or "twelve". Needless to say I watched my train leave from platform 2. I later learned that "Zwo" is often used over public address systems to clearly differentiate between Zwei and Drei. So much for "academic" German! Also had some difficulty with "Schnellzugzuschlagtkarte", but that's another story.

Driving from Salzburg to Munich We needed to stop at a gas station/ restaurant/ rest area for a pee and a snack well, I'll just say not all public bathrooms are self flushing! when my wife was done she heard it flush
and started to leave but was stoped my the male attendent who was yelling at her in german and waving his hands, there was an english speaking woman in there too and told my wife the guy was saying she forgot to flush! The sound she heard was the one next to her, Oops!
My wife gave the guy a 2 Euro coin said she was sorry and never again forgot to make sure she flushed.

hsv is right on. As a student in Germany over 30 years ago, I encountered a much more traditional society than exists there today. Stares, comments, and emphasis on routine formalities were still in abundance as Germany was still emerging from its period of cultural uniformity and somewhat excessive cultural pride.

The difference between Germany then and now is night and day. Germans are far more casual today in dress and manner than in the past. German
vacationers have adopted very casual ways and are nearly indistinguishable from the prototypical American tourist.

Visitors should relax and enjoy themselves. Cultural "mistakes" are pretty hard to make.

One minor thing I noticed my first time in Germany was that the Germans sign numbers differently than we do in the States. If I want two beers from a waiter across the room, I will raise my glass with one hand and show him the first two fingers of my other hand. Since the Germans signal the numeral two with thumb and index finger, the waiter may bring you three beers; figuring your thumb was shot of in the war.

That's nothing - in the Roman Empire, raising two fingers in a "V" would get you FIVE beers!

Charlie, that should be "SchnellzugzuschlagSrückfahrkarte&quo t;

Harzer

I'm like you, Russ, I spent six years in Germany between 1960 and 1980 and really went out of my to make myself indistinguishable in manner and speech from the regular German.

It seems that now it was all in vain, and that 'salopp' is the way to go. A great pity, because I admired the German way of doing things as it was then.

Harzer

harzer,

I can relate to your feelings.
Even as a younger German and considering myself to be pretty liberal and tolerant, I often stand aghast at the lack of behaviour to be observed not that seldomly nowadays.

Sometimes I have a feeling that this country's society has become so liberal that there are absolutely no more taboos whatsoever. This goes along with an appaling lack of education in some classes and the appearance of trash "culture" types the likes of Paris Hilton in America making money from a downright intolerable behavior.
However, this spposedly demonstrates the international assimilation as it seems phenomena like this are not limited to Germany...

I appreciate hearing that point of view hsv, so thank you for your response.

My way of dealing with this is to only visit small towns and villages off the tourist track, where one does still have the chance to feel at home as one did thirty and forty years ago, even if one runs the risk after a few beers of the talk talking turning to Hitler and what a great guy he was (happened to me as recently as two years ago in a B & B in Farchant).

Well, I will be back again in May and hope that I can still discover pockets of 'my' Germany to enjoy. I will be going to the Bayrischer Wald, Schlesien, Berlin and Zittau, so finger crossed.

Harzer

Just as a matter of interest (and WAAAAY off-topic), do the Hitler supporters blame him for the ruination of the country? Or is that just "collateral damage" on the way to the greater good, in their minds?

Do they acknowledge that he committed a number of colossal blunders that would disqualify him from graduating military school, much less lead a powerful country to war?