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marcielee Apr 6th, 2005 05:51 PM

Rome - the Pope
Does anybody have an educated idea how long it will take to pick a new pope, how long til they install him etc. We are going to be there 2nd week of May and WERE going to see the Vatican, but am now wondering about changing plans. Thank you for any insight.

Gavin Apr 6th, 2005 06:06 PM

Conclave starts on April 18. In recent times it has only taken a couple of days to select the new Pope. At some point after that there will be an installation ceremony. The 2nd week of May should be OK. We will be there the last week of April and will just have to see how things go.

barbmike Apr 6th, 2005 06:12 PM

I agree with Gavin as I think that it should be completed with everything within 7-10 days. I'll be there in mid May as I look forward to seeing our new Pope. Have a Great Trip!!! Mike

bluestar Apr 6th, 2005 06:23 PM

There is so much to see in Rome in addition to St. Peter's/Vatican - it shouldn't be that much of a pressing problem. Wait until you are there and plan accordingly day-to-day.

Spygirl Apr 6th, 2005 06:31 PM

The Conclave will begin on April 18th. The 100 Cardinals eligible to vote for a Pope will vote, twice a day, in order to reach a two-thirds majority. If, after two weeks, there is no two-thirds majority, a simple majority will be in effect. I believe the Church will be able to cry "habemus Papam" somewhere around the end of the last week of April, first of May.

Someone on this board said they believe the next Pope will be an Italian, and a hard-liner, more so than John Paul II. I think that's a good guess, but I would not be the least surprised if the next spiritual leader of the world's Catholics comes from- Brazil.

Neil_Oz Apr 6th, 2005 07:37 PM

Bet on a skinny guy and you won't go far wrong. It's said that a fat pope is always followed by a thin pope.

MORE hardline than JPII? Does that mean the next one will re-excommunicate Galileo?

Borealis Apr 6th, 2005 07:41 PM

JPII wasn't fat when he first became Pope 26 years ago. He skied and hiked etc. way back then.

I agree with Spygirl - Brazil seems like a good bet for the next Pope, unless it is someone from an unexpected place, such as China (didn't the Pope name a "secret" cardinal??).

Spygirl Apr 7th, 2005 05:41 AM

Never China or Asia- Catholicism has only in the last couple of decades made inroads there, (not talking about the Phillipines, of course) and the Eastern religions are very much dominant, and it will always be so.

A "skinny" guy Neil? hmmm, I don't know about that!-as Borealis points out, Karol Wojtyla was quite thin when he assumed the Papacy-advancing age and all tends to have its effects on the best of intentions!

One thing we know with an absolute certainty: there will not be, and most likely never will be, a Pope from the United States.

bookchick Apr 7th, 2005 06:08 AM

The Italians have the saying "fat pope, skinny pope" in order to express that no two popes who preceed/succeed are exactly the same--it is a mere metaphor for the type of papal reign the world will see, that's all, certainly not a phrase meant to be taken literally.

Yes, the Pope appointed 31 cardinals in the last year, and only 30 of them have had their identities revealed. The mystery stems from the rare papal practice of naming cardinals in pectore, or in his heart. Popes have usually done this to honor a prelate's service in a country where the Roman Catholic Church is persecuted without further straining the Holy See's relations with that nation or exposing the prelate to harassment. The late JPII was himself such a cardinal, called to Rome in 1968, and made a cardinal in what was at the time a secret ceremony conducted by Pope Paul VI. Sometimes even the cardinal in question is unaware of his honor. And until the pope who appointed him announces his identity, he cannot receive his scarlet biretta or take his place in the College of Cardinals. Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said Wednesday that John Paul's final spiritual testament, a 15-page document to be made public today, does not reveal the name of the cardinal whose in pectore appointment was announced in 2003 along with 30 who were identified.

That means the mystery cardinal, unlike his 183 peers who are named for life, has lost his rank and will not be able to join the eligible cardinals in electing a new pope.

There is speculation that the cardinal in pectore is from China, but since the Holy Father never revealed his identity to anyone, even in his writings that remain after his death, the "mystery cardinal" appears to not be a cardinal, at least not any longer!

I'm truly sorry to have been so long-winded, but to get back to the OP's concern, I think a new Pope will have acended the Papal Throne by the time you've arrived in Rome in May.

Buon Viaggio,

JJ5 Apr 7th, 2005 06:08 AM

There are 116 Cardinals voting, 117 are eligible but one Cardinal from Philipines/Indonesia is too sick to come. The secret Cardinal has not be announced and may not be able to attend.
Their meals are twice a day and get diminished further after 3 days of unsuccessful votes. The physical area they are actually enclaved within this time is larger. A guess is that there will be a new Pope sometime in the week to 10 days after April 18.

It's possible that a South American could be elected, but I think it is what they would call in Vegas or any venue- an extreme long shot. Conversation in Italian and Laten with knowledge of character and practiced association become such important factors that it is difficult for that to happen. If it went longer than a week, IMHO, it would be possible for an African or South American to show abilities and establish a following. Asia or N.America- beyond a long shot.

I think it will be a European, an Italian, and someone who is not as young as PJPII was upon coming to the job.

I am hoping for a Pope like John XXXIII.
But I think we will get one who is more on the intelluctal side, and quite solidly in the conservative camp. Yes, you could have some more hardline than JPII. As conservative as he was and as his encylicals demonstrated, you could have one who would administer those precepts with more punative aspects.

bookchick Apr 7th, 2005 06:34 AM

JJ5, unless the late JPII left something in writing that is discovered before the Conclave begins, he is NOT truly a cardinal, and therefore NOT welcome to join the conclave.

General thought inside the Vatican is that since the United States is and has been for sometime a world superpower, there will not be an American cardinal as long as the US remains so.

I agree with you, JJ5, however, that as hardline as Pope JPII was, there are even more conservative members of the College of Cardinals, a few of whom would prefer the Church return to Latin Masses.


Intrepid1 Apr 7th, 2005 06:44 AM

The latest buzz is that either the prelate from Milan or the Cardinal from Nigeria is most likely to be elected.

Let us hope that whoever is elected the already-festering problems within the Church will finally be addressed.

mousireid Apr 7th, 2005 07:13 AM

Does anyone know what TIME the funeral begins (Italian time)?

Spygirl Apr 7th, 2005 07:14 AM

Yes, it does appear that the patriarch of Milan is the front-runner-but you know how those things are!

If they WERE to vote for an Italian pope, I would hope that it would be the patriarch of Venice-Angelo Scola.

bookchick Apr 7th, 2005 07:15 AM

Mouseirid, it begins at 10am Italian time.


Spygirl Apr 7th, 2005 07:16 AM

The funeral will begin at 10am Rome time.

JJ5 Apr 7th, 2005 07:32 AM

The secret Cardinal could show up WITH the paper, believe it or not, it has happened before. But very much doubted this time. He was probably in China.

There is another way a Pope can be elected. There is a Latin term for it that I can no longer remember. It is by a "spiritual" or miracle type of special event- such as in one case during the 13th century when a dove flew in and sat upon one Cardinal's head after a very long conclave. It was declared "appointed" and further votes were not taken at all. This is highly doubtful.

Tiggy22 Apr 7th, 2005 07:42 AM

I travelling to Rome the week of the 17th. I have a friend who works in the Vatican who secured reservations on the Scavi and a few other private Vatican tours for me on the 23rd. He told me that he wasn't going to cancel them fo rme because he believed that the new pope would be chosen within 2-3 days of the 18th.

Spygirl Apr 7th, 2005 08:08 AM

Live updates now on CNN from Rome-I can't get enough of this-I plead guilty!

Tiggy22 Apr 7th, 2005 08:11 AM

Spygirl are you going to Italy anytime soon? I think you deserve a trip! ;-)

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