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-   -   Rome Itinerary Critique (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/rome-itinerary-critique-959110/)

Rostra Dec 15th, 2012 03:36 PM

When you get your map use the mile/km scale on it and cut a piece of cardboard to the length of 1 mile.

The average walking speed is 3mph but slower in a crowded city (NY'ers actually average 2.9mph).
So a conservative estimate is that you can cover that 1mi distance in Rome in 30min.

So if you find a hotel that is outside the historic center that doesn't mean it's not centrally located as far as walking to the sites.

For most Rome sites the Piazza Venezia would be the ideal dead-center location for a walker but AFAIK no hotels are located there.

A poster on your Beehive post mentioned a hotel (forgot the name) that is ~0.5mi east of the Piazza Venezia that's not a bad location for walking plus the Via Nazionale is nearby and that is a major bus route.

With your budget staying near Termini isn't really that bad, with the metro and major bus hub in the Piazza there it makes getting around and back to the hotel fairly easy (Esp 'back', it's very easy to find a bus headed to Termini).
So for 6e a day for 2 you can get dropped at or near any major site and back again.

It's a safe area but not romantic like the historic center.

ssander Dec 15th, 2012 04:28 PM

IMHO...best "non-St-Peters" church is Santa Prassede. Amazing mosaics...best in Rome...created by 8th c. artisans brought in from the Byzantine empire.

There are too many other things to do and see in Rome, so skip the other churches. After you've been to Prassede, the others you mentioned will seem drab.

http://www.sanderhome.com/Italy07/churches.htm

Second favorite: Santa Sabina -- 5th c. church in the Roman Empire (not medieval Christian) style. I've never seen anything like it. The doors purportedly have the earliest known depiction of Christ on the cross.

[Remember...this is just my opinion, so no flaming, please.]

SS

Jean Dec 15th, 2012 06:16 PM

Some additional info on ssander's recommendations:

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...santa-prassede

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...e-santa-sabina

Vivi004 Dec 15th, 2012 08:41 PM

You guys really are amazing to help a stranger out so much, I am baffled but very appreciative of all the tips, advice and help.

We decided to splurge (for us) for our hotel in Rome and booked the Relais Trevi 41 which is very close to the Trevi Fountain.

@ssander- those are beautiful churches, thank you!

annhig Dec 15th, 2012 11:49 PM

IMHO...best "non-St-Peters" church is Santa Prassede. Amazing mosaics...best in Rome...created by 8th c. artisans brought in from the Byzantine empire.>>

sander - i won't disagree. We came across it whilst following Rick Steeves walking tour of mosaic churches. people flame him, but we'd never have found it otherwise. Better still there was a choir rehearsing in there - it was quite magical.

vivi - make sure that you have a stock of 50c and 1€ coins to put in the machines for turning on the lights in these churches. they often have special lighting for the mosaics, but you have to put money in a little machine to turn them on - it usually lasts 5 mins or so.

nice choice for the hotel - you will walk your socks off in Rome so staying somewhere central will be doing your feet a favour.

denisea Dec 16th, 2012 04:42 AM

Off the subject of what to see, but do download Elizabeth Minchilli's restaurant app "Eat Rome" and katie Parla's app is also good "Rome Foodie"....both were extremely helpful for us.

We also did a food tour with Elizabeth that was great and the restaurant recs on the app were great to have. You can sort by neighborhood, which is super helpful.

carolsc Dec 16th, 2012 07:54 AM

vivi, we are only staying 3 nights in Rome (at the Relais Maddalena) then onto Tuscany for 8 nights in 2 different apartments (time split between Montepulciano and Lucca) with the last 3 nights in Venice (the icing on the cake despite the crowds!).

carolsc

annhig Dec 16th, 2012 08:07 AM

carol - that sounds like a nice trip too!

Rostra Dec 16th, 2012 09:43 AM

ssander; No flame intended:).
"Second favorite: Santa Sabina -- 5th c. church in the Roman Empire (not medieval Christian) style. I've never seen anything like it. The doors purportedly have the earliest known depiction of Christ on the cross."

There's a bit of a debate on that.
The doors have been heavily restored and reconstructed (parts added on).

And it's a hard call to connect the structure with crosses, the ^ section shows roof tiles and there are too many vertical supports |||.

While it does show Jesus and the two others from the crucifixion (the loincloths are a major factor), they are standing on solid ground and praying/worshipping in the orant/orans position.
The orant is very common in early Christian art and definitely has Pagan roots and possibly Jewish also.

It's believed that the nails and the small block of wood backing was a Medieval reconstruction.
http://tinyurl.com/cf4mwxe
As we can see the left hand of Jesus and smaller figure on the right also has an untouched left hand.

If originally meant to show the actual crucifixion in the orant position all the hands would have been nailed to a crossbeam, simply done by raising Jesus' right hand higher and lowering the 2 side structures n|^|n.
But that still leaves us with a non cross-like structure?
Also their feet would not have been on solid ground in a crucifixion scene.

Note the stone block wall has a window in the right ^ section and possibly the structure is an arcade along the wall or a seperate structure.

One theory is that it was a locally produced 'Passion Play' and the scenes are accurately portrayed locations (the stone wall & structures appear in another scene or two).

And the theory for the nails and small wood blocks;
By Medieval times the orant position was no longer used and the Mediaeval reconstruction artist altered it to show that it was a crucifixion scene to the uneducated masses.

Another scene on the door shows a man in the orant position and a Latin Cross
http://tinyurl.com/btwsjmm

For Christians sadly it seems IMO that the 1st depiction of the crucifixion is the Alexamenos Graffito (~200AD) in Rome.
Where a Pagan student/slave mocks a Christian student/slave for being Christian.

ssander Dec 16th, 2012 04:03 PM

...I stand corrected...and now better-informed.

Thanks.

(But it is still a really cool-looking place.)

SS

kybourbon Dec 16th, 2012 04:59 PM

There are 316 historic churches listed on the Rome tourism website. You can search by area if you want to group them together.

http://www.060608.it/en/cultura-e-sv...rico-artistico

Vivi004 Dec 17th, 2012 06:19 PM

Carolsc- If you feel like meeting up for dinner or something let me know! Since we will be there at the same time :)

denisea- Thank you for the app suggestions, my husband will love you for that!

annhig- good to know about the lights for the mosaics!

Now I am wondering what my best plan of action for visiting the Vatican should be if I have a confirmed Scavi Tour at 0915?? Any thoughts or suggestions????

Cdchi1 Dec 18th, 2012 01:25 AM

2 things i would add to your itinerary:

1. San Giovanni in Laterano (Basilica of St John Lateran) - the most lavish of the churches I saw, huge and do not think it should be missed. The piazza by the same name was also where i got caught up in the riots last year in October (maybe that's why its so memorable)

2. Pincian Overlook - on a clear sunset evening, head to Piazza del Popolo and climb up to the top of the Pincian hill where there is a large terrace style area with fantastic views of Rome. Conveniently the stairs up to the overlook are right near Santa Maria Del Popolo which you are doing last on April 29...so you will probably accidentally astumble on it on the way back from Galleria Borghese like I did :-)

Someone else also mentioned considering Castel St Angelo...I'd definitely agree with that suggestion.

annhig Dec 18th, 2012 07:38 AM

Now I am wondering what my best plan of action for visiting the Vatican should be if I have a confirmed Scavi Tour at 0915?? Any thoughts or suggestions????>>

vivi - your 9.15 tour should be over by 10.45. you could then choose to book a tour of the Vatcan museums any time after 11.30 [allows for a bit of slippage and getting round to the entrance which is quite a hike] OR see St. Peter's, perhaps going up the Dome as well.

You can get straight into St. Peter's after you finish the Scavi tour, without having to go through security again, and touring it thoroughly and going up the Dome could take you up to lunchtime.

so depending on which option you choose, you could book the vatican museums for 11.30 onwards or 1.30.

Delaine Dec 18th, 2012 08:43 AM

I had mentioned Castel St. Angelo. The view from the top is great. There is even a little cafe at the top where you can get a ciocolatto caldo or a cold drink, depending on the time of the year.

I also recommend San Giovanni in Laterano. It is the Cathedral of Rome (the only one), and it is beautiful inside. I also found it to have a warmer, more accessible feel.

annhig Dec 18th, 2012 11:19 AM

I had mentioned Castel St. Angelo. The view from the top is great. There is even a little cafe at the top where you can get a ciocolatto caldo or a cold drink, depending on the time of the year.>>

Delaine, honestly we thought that the view and the cafe were the best things about the Castel san Angelo, and you can get both of those on the top of St. Peter's. Yes - there is a cafe [at roof level ] in St. Peter's, and some toilets. you can find them as you cross from the top of the lift to the bottom of the Dome. It's a very interesting area, and worth spending a few minutes as you go up, or down. It's also a good place to wait for anyone who decides they don't want to go all the way to the top.

Delaine Dec 18th, 2012 12:52 PM

That is true, but the view is different, if you have extra time.

annhig Dec 18th, 2012 12:53 PM

at a cost, Delaine - I thought that Castel San Angelo was very highly priced for what it was.

Jean Dec 18th, 2012 01:36 PM

We thought the Castello had some of the most interesting history (nearly 2000 years) of any sight in Rome. Tomb to military fortress to papal fortress to papal residence to prison, appearance in Puccini's Tosca, military baracks and now museum, with lots of plots and intrigue along the way.

Rostra Dec 18th, 2012 05:59 PM

vivi; I known you have alot on your plate in Rome but with your religious interests you might want to consider the Basilica of St. Paul's Outside the Walls.
http://tinyurl.com/kndae6
http://tinyurl.com/bsq5zvc

Paul was a Roman citizen and entitled to an honorable execution and proper burial.

There is really no reason to doubt that early Christians revered his marked grave directly after his death right up until Constantine built the 1st church over it.
And that the Carbon14 Dated 1-2C bones fragments in the coffin beneath the basilica's altar are not his.


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