Rome at Christmas--Very Preliminary
 

Nothing is booked yet (we're a little far out anyway). We also may change our minds completely before anything is booked (we had been supposed to go to Wales in the spring and then DH got this idea).

Travelers are myself (59 at time of travel), DS (30 at time of travel, and a bit quirky but essentially a functional adult), and DH (60 at time of travel). I use a cane, but can climb stairs, walk fairly long distances etc. We will probably fly out of Philadelphia to Rome (or out of either EWR or BWI, depending). Alternately, we might fly to London and book some European low cost carrier separately, if that looks like a big savings, but obviously that adds a layer of complication.

Current thoughts are mostly Rome, with a day trip to Florence (possibly just for DS, although I'm not sure how he feels about taking an Italian train by himself). We will probably NOT do the Uffizi galleries (I know that's rank heresy, but they're not going to work well for DH, who has very limited patience for museums, and even less for crowded ones). DS has some very specific culinary agenda in Florence, and I was trying to figure if Florence worked for all of us or not.

We'd probably also do an overnight in Sorrento, which looks lovely and I understand does Christmas in a big way. DS was making noises about Salerno, probably intent on Allied landing things.

After Rome, we would likely take the train to Tirano, because DH is obsessed with the Bernina Express. With the Bernina Express, I'm thinking we could add a little Switzerland in, and possibly even fly open jaw out of Zurich (which would probably make the London stop more functional and less nutty).

Actual questions are--is Florence worth it as a day trip if you're not going to the Uffizi galleries?

Also specific attractions in Rome for someone with very limited museum attention span ( and I've got a distinct preference for cheap or free for that reason)? DH likes history, has more enthusiasm for architecture than for art, and does very much enjoy walking around interesting places. We also all like to eat, and while DH is enormously and famously fussy, quite a few of the very limited things he does eat are Italian, and he doesn't need his Italian food to be heavily Americanized, so I think we'll be fine. DS, on the other hand, is not fussy at all, and I'm sure he's developing an exhaustive list of things he wants to eat. So far we are planning on St. Peter's Basilica (not the Vatican museums) and probably the Colosseum, along with quite a bit of general walking around, looking in shop windows, and visiting the Christmas market at the Piazza Navona. DS is extremely interested in history, especially but not limited to European military history.

Is Milan worth an extended stop, since we'd have to change trains for Tirano there anyway?

When booking trains, is First Class usually worth paying for, or is that something that completely depends on the train?

I'm also trying to figure out if we're better off with a tourist apartment, or hotel rooms?

I can sort of read Italian, but don't meaningfully speak it. DS can probably read a menu. DS also does speak and read a little German, which might be useful if we end up in Zurich. DH can understand a little spoken Italian, but doesn't meaningfully speak or read it. Our VERY rough dates are something like Dec. 15-28.

Suggestions are very welcome! Thank you!

How long is this trip? You seem to be planning three weeks worth?

Florence is heavy on Renaissance art. Whether it be a church or a major museum, it is everywhere. So if your son or any of you are not into that, skip Florence. If absolutely necessary, for the culinary experience, sure. But might be more trouble than it's worth, YMMV.

Keep in mind that one night in a place will net you only a half day sightseeing. If you are going to do any time in Sorrento, spend a couple of nights so you can actually SEE Sorrento and how they do Xmas. Personally, I'd skip this, but depends on your total trip time. Same with Salerno, unless you can devote some actual time there.

Figure transit into your plans. 4 days in a place nets you 3 days of sightseeing/activities. 3 nights is 2 days, etc Don't forget the shorter daylight days, too.

I know you are from a colder winter climate. But what are your plans in these locations if it is rainy? Places like ancient Rome are all open air. Sure there are museums and whatnot but does not sound like an interest.

In general, it is best to fly on one ticket. Often the savings are minimal in the end. And, what if either flights to/from London - Italy are canceled? You lose the protection. Unless you are actually planning on spending time IN London, I'd not plan a flight itinerary that includes that.

Instead, fly multi city. Either into Milan/Zurich and home from Rome.

If you are going to be in any particular location on Christmas Day and Eve, you may need to make sure you reserve meal reservations well in advance if you're not self-catering.

We were figuring around two weeks, maybe a little more, especially if there's a London stop involved (which would be overnight, with an unprotected connection, especially since we might well have to switch airports). We wouldn't plan for significant sightseeing, but we're easily amused, even at airports, and there's always stuff we'd like to buy/do in the UK, so it's not really wasted time. I'd have to think I was saving at least a couple hundred bucks a ticket to be worth it, but a quick (and not comprehensive, since not all airlines seem to have their schedules for those dates up yet) glance suggested that I might be, especially since I'd really like that overnight transatlantic segment to be in premium economy if possible. Once I'm a little closer, and our dates are a little firmer, I'll start playing with airfares and routes and see what I can do..

We were sort of figuring Rome in winter is rainy, and there would be a fair amount of ducking in and out of places.

This is very rough and subject to change, but my thinking was along the lines of --overnight flight, then Day One Londonish, Day Two fly to Rome, Three, Four, Five, and Six in Rome (possibly with daytrip to Florence), Day Seven train to Sorrento and stay there, Day Eight leave Sorrento, then back to Rome for at least one night, Day Nine train to Tirano and stay there, Day Ten take Bernina Express to Chur (probably) stay overnight, then Day Eleven to Zurich, overnight, and then fly to the US with a day through London. Obviously Salerno would add a day, and we could also, instead of Zurich, take the Bernina Express in the other direction and backtrack to Rome or Milan. Skipping London stops would make this a little shorter.

Seeing this in black and white, this really is a very train heavy itinerary. Which is somewhat deliberate, since we all love trains, but I'm now wondering if Eurail pass might make sense.

And yeah, I had been a little concerned about meals over Christmas, and was wondering if that might make self-catering a better idea.

I'm also assuming trains are very limited on Christmas Eve and Day.

Thanks!

A few things to consider:
I definitely wouldn't want the stop in London unless it really saves a ton. And would you be doing it again at the end? Takes too much time when you already have too much planned for your 13 nights, and so much extra schlepping.

Switzerland is a long way to go for such a short time there.

Staying in Rome, then Sorrento, then Rome is inefficient. You save a hotel change by keeping the Rome nights together.

Florence is certainly worth visiting without the Uffizi (I didn't go there until my fourth visit to Florence). Lots to see without spending extensive time in museums. For instance, Michelangelo's David is in a museum, but it's small and doesn't take a lot of time (you need a skip-the-line reservation). That's just one example. And it's an easy train ride from Rome, only 1-1/2 hour.

Rome over Christmas might be rainy, but not necessarily. When I was there, the weather was beautiful. When in the sun, I could take my jacket off. Of course, you might not be as lucky. When there, I made it a point to see as many presepi (nativity scenes) as possible. Many churches have them out only at Christmas. There was a large exhibit in Santa Maria del Popolo that had them from all over the world (don't know if they still do that). You definitely need reservations for dinner on Christmas Eve, and probably Christmas Day as well. Actually, I have found post-Covid that you need dinner reservations for most places in Rome (more than in the past).

We're definitely looking forward to the nativities, and Christmas decorations in general.

It's not really Switzerland per se that's the giant draw, but the Bernina Express, which really borders on obsession for DH. We don't get to do Europe often, and usually when we do, it's not that part. I was very much thinking, we're going to be a six hour train ride away, we should just go and do it. Pretty much all trains are desirable attractions in and of themselves with our crew anyway.

I was even vaguely tempted to take trains from London to Rome, but that's definitely NOT a savings, and does seem to be bit of a time consuming headache, despite the possibility of night trains with sleepers.. Whether we do the London stop or not will depend a lot on what the fares look like, but no-one here ever really minds stopping in the UK. We're also the nutty people who often switch accommodation mid-trip, but it might make more sense to just train straight from Sorrento to Tirano, or at least to Milan,

Thanks for the reservation heads up, it's not the kind of thing we'd necessarily think of for casual dinners, especially not actually on Christmas.

If Florence is nice for a wander, it probably makes sense for us to accompany DS on his gastronomic mission. I'll take a look at the museum with David, and see if I think it makes sense. Skipping the line would definitely be a must,

Thanks!

The David is in the Accademia. Another great thing in Florence (among many) is the Baptistry, wonderful 13th C mosaics covering the dome. Again, it's small. I think the mosaics are currently covered while they do restoration, but maybe they'll be done by next Christmas, I don't know what their timeline is.

just a reminder that Rome is the centre of Jubilee year for Catholics -millions are expected to visit Rome and other areas for pilgrimages and events

If you contemplated night trains, I assume you saw this website: https://www.europeansleeper.eu

You can catch a train from London to Brussels (like 2 hrs) and from there travel by sleepers all the way to Italy. I believe there is a rail pass you can get for this, although I have no first-hand knowledge of it, but I would be intrigued to hear if anyone else has tried this. It also seems like a good excuse for breaks in Munich or Vienna.

Has anyone done this trip or similar?

Lavandula

Thanks! We figured there'd be a lot of religious travel, especially at that time of year. We're definitely doing the timed ticket for St. Peter's.

Ooh! Thanks for the website link.

I believe Eurail passes will cover the sleeper trains, and then you usually pay separately for the sleeper part.

I no longer remember all of the places we went, but I traveled all around a chunk of Europe on trains with a Eurail pass when I was eight. That was in 1975, and while we took plenty of night trains, we mostly just slept in the seats and didn't pay for a berth.

It was a somewhat formative experience.

On second look, this seems to be a company that runs their own night trains, not a consolidator/ticketing agent for night services in general, which is what I had thought.

They don't review very well, so we will not be using them. They also seem to have their own passes, so probably you can't use Eurail pass on them.
'

Being me, I wondered if i was shortchanging them, so I checked a little more, and went on YouTube.

You can use Eurail pass.

Probably none of those cars are actually the ones I was on in 1975, but some of them could be. It does, in fact, look interesting, but I don't think their website is doing a good job of managing expectations, and judging from the number of reviewers who had booked private compartments and gotten downgraded to couchettes, they've got some issues.

This has been a fascinating rabbit hole, and while I think there are people it could work well for, I don't think we're among them.

We did an entire week in Rome at Christmas time in 2019. It was wonderful. The weather is mild and there are nativity scenes in almost every piazza. The churches also have unique nativity displays. There is so much to do in Rome. Some highlights, other than the typical Rome sites were: Baths of Caracalla, Ostia Antica, and The Aqueduct Park

For our trip to Northern Italy in 2023, we traveled by train everywhere. Whenever possible, we traveled first class, which was not much more money. Milan and Florence are great to visit, and would highly recommend as there is a lot of history to see there. Would recommend you take the train to Pisa for a half day trip (morning is best). You can easily store your luggage at the train station.

This is a great question, and my answer is "yes!" I think about 80% of the people who visit the Uffizi galleries go there just because they've been told they have to. And I think about 80% of those who go are embarrassed to say afterwards that they were bored stiff and left in half an hour. (I once read a quite honest opinion on TripAdvisor, "One damn Madonna after another.") It is indeed very heavy on Italian Renaissance religious paintings.

I don't know if your husband doesn't care for art, or is just not a fan of museums. If cuisine will be a major focus of the trip, you won't have much time for museums anyway. I would suggest arriving early, walking to the Duomo, just to admire it from the outside. (The inside is fairly bare.) The Baptistery, mentioned above, is very beautiful, and maybe the restoration work will be finished.

After the Duomo, you should walk to Piazza della Signoria. There is a replica of Michelangelo's David there, and it's a very good replica. (Another heresy, but I read an interview with one of the curators, who said most people couldn't distinguish the original from the replica in Piazza della Signoria.

​​​​​​Then walk along the river towards the Ponte Vecchio. You don't need to cross it; you can view it from the riverside, then from the entrance to the bridge, which is usually shoulder to shoulder with tourists.

By then it should be lunchtime, and you should eat where your son wants to eat, and where you should have a reservation.

On your way back to the station, I recommended a quick visit to the Basilica of Santa Maria Novella, which is just by the station. It houses one of the most concentrated collections of Renaissance art in the world. Better than most museums. Sometimes there are free guided tours conducted by volunteers. If not, you might want to consult a guidebook; as a last resort, the Wikipedia article is pretty comprehensive.

Florence in a Day (or more)
 

There is so much to see in Florence, depending on what your interests are. We did 3 full days of touring in Florence. Although we do not usually go to museums, we did visit to see a few things. Here's a list of what else we saw. Hope this helps you determine how much time you need in Florence and what to do for a day trip.

He's not really a museum fan, even at nearly sixty, he's a bit of a wild wiggle, and outdoor attractions are often better. He definitely likes architecture, and scenic city walks often work well for him. He's not opposed to art, but a lot of medieval and renaissance religious paintings won't do much for him. I'll definitely remind DS about reservations.

Thanks! That's extremely helpful.

Thanks! We're very excited by Rome, but we'll probably skip Pisa.

We've actually dropped Rome, and are saving it for another trip, along with most of the rest of Italy. I posted separately about our new itinerary, which will originate in Milan.