Rome and Tuscany with 90 yr old

Old Mar 1st, 2016, 05:06 PM
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Rome and Tuscany with 90 yr old

Hi! I am planning a trip to Italy in October. This will be my first trip to Italy. After all my research, I have come up with an itinerary. Could you please help me fine tune our itinerary.

We are going on this trip because our mom who turned 90 this year would like to visit Rome during the Jubilee year of Mercy. The only must do for her is the Vatican tour. She has been to Italy a few times in her younger years. She is mobile but does tire easily. My plan is for us to do one major thing everyday using mostly private tours and vans for transportation. This trip is about having fun and building memories. It is not meant to see all the famous sites nor to see them in depth. We are a party of 8, my siblings and mom. Total number of days - 14 including travel days. Breakdown on trip: Rome - 4 days, Tuscany - 6 days, Rome - 2 days.

Day 1 - Travel day
Day 2 - Arrive Rome - rented an apartment near the Spanish steps. Free day to walk around and food shopping.
Day 3 - Rome City Tour - (6 hours) Private van - we will do a hop on hop off tour of the city. Places we would like to drive by/see: Colosseum - outside only, Forum, Palatine hill, Pantheon, Piazza Navona, Campo di Fiori, Trastevere, Jewish Ghetto.
Day 4 - Sunday mass at St. Peter’s Basilica - walk around Piazza Navona/ Campo di Fiori
Day 5 - Vatican Tour - Booking private City Wonders tour with early Sistine Chapel entry
Day 6 - Rome to Siena with side trip to Assisi - booked at Agriturismo il Castagno Siena. Still looking for best private van for this trip.
Day 7 - Tour Siena City, have lunch and return “home” early afternoon. Some of us would like to go to the Outlets.
Day 8 - Florence (whole day) - Private van for the day. Please help me plan this day. I would like to do Florence by clusters. walk around sites that are close to each other then hop in the van and get dropped off to the next group of sites that are close together. This will eliminate too much walking for mom. Is this possible? Must see sites: Academia, Ponte Vecchio and Piazza Michelangelo (drive to see views). Can you please suggest other places that will be good to visit with clustering in mind. We will skip the Uffizi this trip as I think it would be more pleasant to walk around town and see the City.
Day 9 - Chianti/ San Gimigniano ( 5 hours )
Day 10 - Pienza/ Montepulciano ( 5 hours)
Day 11 - Transfer back to Rome. ( same apartment near Spanish steps) Outlets in the morning and drive back to Rome mid to late afternoon.
Day 12 - Christian Rome Tour ( 4 hours): Basilica St. Mary Major, Basilica St.John Lateran, Holy Stairs, Old Appian Way, Basilica St. Paul, Catacombs St. Calixtus.
Day 13 - Free day or Villa D’Este
Day 14 - Travel Day

Most of our afternoons are free time. This is the time for mom to rest and the others can book optional tours, rest or shop and we all meet up for dinner.

We will be getting a wheelchair for the Vatican tour. Should we get one for Siena and Florence as well?

Thank you all for your patience in reading this long article. I hope that you can help me plan a most memorable trip for my moms last trip to Rome.
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Old Mar 1st, 2016, 05:48 PM
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A suggestion for the wheelchair. Those foldable ones with canvas like seats are terribly uncomfortable - forcing your bones to squish together. I know from experience on one trip. I was in extreme pain within minutes of sitting in one, but didn't want to complain.

So, if you can find a piece of dense foam or one of the foam seats for a car, do take one with you. Stores that carry crutches, braces, various hand supports, etc. usually have them.

Yes, it will be hard to push, but still might be better to have a wheelchair for your Mom in Florence and Siena, perhaps San Gimignano also, rather than to risk her falling on cobblestone while on a trip.

You and your siblings sound like a wonderful family.
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Old Mar 1st, 2016, 06:07 PM
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I assume your apartment in Rome has an elevator (it's something I'm sure you've checked but just in case).
Mass at St. Peter's - check Mass times and remember you still need to pass through a security check although if your mum is in a wheelchair just move her to the front and you will all be able to bypass the line. Mass information is here - Masses are all in Italian.


http://stpetersbasilica.info/touristinfo.htm#mass
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Old Mar 1st, 2016, 06:36 PM
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Your private van tour won't get you close to sights such as the Trevi Fountain or into Piazza Navona as these are pedestrian zones. Have you heard of golf cart tours? They get into Rome's little streets as they are permitted down them. Could be a good option for your mum (expensive, however).

http://rollingrome.com/rome-by-golf-cart-tour/
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Old Mar 1st, 2016, 07:58 PM
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Day 3: Colosseum is wheel chair accessible with an elevator. I can't think of anywhere in Forum or Palatine Hill accessible without walking a lot on uneven ancient stone roads. Palatine Hill is, well, is a hill. One has to climb up to see anything on it.

Day 7: Siena. You know it is a hill town? I think it is impractical and slow to move all 8 of you at the same time in this hill narrow street city. The walkers can move from place to place faster than a motorized vehicle as walkers can do beelines without having to make detours.

Day 8: Florence. Except for Piazzale Michelangelo, I don't think you can go from place to place by a van as the area south of the Duomo are so heavily occupied by pedestrians.

Day 9: San Gimigniano. Hardly nothing flat and streets are heavily used by mass of tourists.

Day 10: Pienza is flat and small. Can get close to the center by a car. Probably easiest on of the hill town for access. Montepulciano is long but not flat and again could be difficult to get around in a van, if they are allowed it at all.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 04:25 AM
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I very seldom tell people that their plans for Italy are unrealistic, because usually they aren't, just a different way from the way most people travel.

But I think your plans for traveling with a 90 year old in Rome are unrealistic unless the plan is that that someone will always be available to stay behind with the 90 year old in the van or the apartment if the oldest person cannot keep up or it is too hot to be moving around so much.

I have dealt with several 90 year olds in my extended family, which is blessed with longevity genes, and I have no preconceptions that 90 year olds are all invalids. I know many of them are in better shape than many 50 year olds, and full of energy, curiosity, stamina. I very much hope your family is like that.

However, the rigors of travel are significant, and Italy presents many, many obstacles underfoot and with respect to climbing stairs and steep grades, waiting on lines and dealing with heat, plus too much food/wait time in restaurants., and not many easily accessed public restrooms.

Your mother wants to go to the Vatican. I suggest you go to the Vatican, hang out with the family in Rome for a week, and plan very little. For your second week, transfer to an agriturismo and those that want to go places can rent a car or a driver. Play it by ear.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 04:38 AM
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Great idea. Go for it.

We did about the same trip it with a someone in a wheelchair too. (we did Rome, villa d'Este, Pisa, San Gimignano, Siena and ?? in about 10 days too). We rented a van - for 8 people. We put the wheelchair in the back with some luggage (pay attention not to have too many, the wheelchair takes space. It cost something like 100 € per day but well worth it. We had a handicapped card (from Belgium) so parked everywhere close to sites and in the ZLC's).

We had the wheelchair constantly with us, and I was the one pushing all the time. Got me strong arms, especially when the tyres went flat...

You are probably aware that Italians give special access to handicapped people so no need to stay (and less stand) in line when visiting the sites. We were actually pulled out of the queue at the Colloseum and brought at entrance.

At the Vatican a nun stayed with us and showed us around and helped us navigate. We hadn't anticipated and asked for but I suppose it is possible to arrange in advance.

Grab every moment, build memories as you say - you will have a great trip. It will be hard sometimes... The handicapped person we went with died shortly afterwards but memories are still there. If there is one trip I'll never regret having done it is that one. Go !!!
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 07:43 AM
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I think you need to rethink every area where the car is banned. Looking at your list that is a fair bit of your trip.

I'd also look to hire electrically driven scooters, I've seen people with wheel chairs, they look knackered. Google is your friend here.

Check airports will be offering similar and book them, your nonna may claim she does not need them, but along with jet lag she will.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 07:48 AM
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Montepulciano and Siena are pretty steep, while Pienza is as flat as a pancake....

http://www.accessibleitaly.com/servi...equipment.html might help but i think they cost a bit
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 07:59 AM
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You might be interested in the Scavi Tour at the Vatican. Pope Francis went on this tour shortly after he was elected. This tour is about 1- 1 1/4 hour long. There is one flight of steps down and then maneuvering thru some narrow areas but it's not challenging.

The tour takes you under the Vatican to the location of St. Peter's remains. The tour is done by the Vatican, must be booked up to 3 months in advance and they only allow reservations for small groups. It's a very special experience and worth the effort it takes to make reservations.

http://www.scavi.va/content/scavi/en/ufficio-scavi.html
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 09:35 AM
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I have a healthy 85-year-old aunt. She loves to travel with me because I enjoy pampering her, so occasionally I bring her along, on the safer trips. Never Europe's hill towns. She likes to pretend she's 60, but she's much slower and hard-of-hearing than she wishes to admit. And she often ignores the risks associated with falling. I know the risks, and the work to protect her from them is exhausting. I need a vacation after I travel with her.

I think your itinerary is too full, too ambitious. Traveling with eight people is not a joy ride. It has its own stress issues. I have a few decades before I reach 90, but a six-hour city tour, getting in and out of a van would drive me crazy. And that's just one example.

It's difficult for a younger person to imagine what it's like to walk in an older person's shoes. When you travel with older people, you really need to allow for flexibility, and plan shorter excursions which have a cancel option. Experience has taught me to not leave my auntie away from her hotel room for more than three hours. And I really had to learn how to slow myself down to not rush her.

Good luck. Do whatever you can to keep your mother safe.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 09:36 AM
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Just another opinion and we all know what they are worth.

I would not attempt to take a 90 year old woman on the Scavi tour. Really, I'm approaching my later sixties, and I wouldn't go again.

Very close quarters and no place to sit or rest. Unless she has no problem with being on her feet in closed areas for 60-90 minutes, I suggest passing on this.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 11:15 AM
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Another idea, that may work better on narrow Roman streets than a large van. My parents (almost 80, but dad has knee issues) recently visited Amsterdam, and I arranged for a half-day with a pedicab. She took them on a tour around the Jordaan, then to a museum that's a bit out of the way. She waited for them outside, then biked them back to their hotel.

They loved her; she sounds like a great person and tour guide, and it was a great way to get around the city.

You might want to look into doing that.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 11:22 AM
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Having traveled with elderly relatives, I urge you to keep your schedule flexible. I wouldn't book many tours, unless one of you is willing to back out of them at the last minute and sit with your mother in a piazza watching the world go by. The pace of the tours will probably be too fast for your mother unless it's way too slow for the others in your group.

You also have to be willing to relinquish some things you might have wanted to do. I remember when I took my elderly aunt to a cathedral, she walked inside and was overwhelmed with the size. She said, "Oh my, this is beautiful, but I think I'll just admire it from here." I would very much have liked to visit the cathedral, but I didn't say so, and left with her after five minutes to go sit in a square, which was really her favorite activity.

I had the same experience when I took my mother to Belgium (Bruges). We had a hotel room overlooking the main square, and she loved sitting at the window watching the scene. The highlight of her trip was watching the preparations for a visit by Mitterand (this was a long time ago), and seeing him arrive in his limousine, escorted by motorcycles. She also loved visiting Belgian shops, especially a houseswares shop we went to. I let her set the pace. Each day I sugested some possible activities, and let her decide. Often she was tired and didn't want to do much at all, but she really enjoyed her time.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 12:28 PM
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I think keeping the schedule flexible is good advice but also a necessity. I traveled with my father until he was about 97. He was very active but slowed down considerably at 95.

On trips we planned activities that he could participate in but also activities for the rest of us. He decided day to day how much he was able to do. We tried to make the trip enjoyable for all so we did do some separate things getting together on those days for breakfast or dinner.

It will be a wonderful trip - just provide the flexibility to adjust plans daily and throughout the day.

P.s. My father lived in Rome for 20 years and met my mother there.
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 07:13 PM
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Thank you so much for your replies, advice and sharing your experiences in traveling with an elderly person.

I am planning with a mindset of being as flexible as possible. That’s the reason for doing private tours and private transport. This will enable us to cut the trip short if we see that its becoming a bit much or cancel the plan completely for that day if necessary. However, I need to have a daily activity in mind as her custom when we travel will be to ask, “What is our plan for tomorrow?” .

From the activities listed in the itinerary, the only bookings that will have a penalty if cancelled are: The Vatican tour, the transfers to and from Rome to Siena and the day trip to Florence. I will book these once I’ve finalized our schedule. Also, it won’t be a problem for one of us or a few of us to just sit with her when she gets tired mid tour. This has happened in the past and it’s a non issue. She is similar to NYCfoodsnob’s aunt. A healthy 90 year old who still likes to travel. In NYC, she can walk continuously in her pace for 2 hours before she needs a rest. So probably with cobblestones and hills much less.

I tweaked the itinerary with your replies in mind. Please let me know how I can improve it. And in Tuscany, if we decide not to visit Pienza or San Gimignano, what would be a good relaxing alternative activity?

Day 3- Rome City tour - Drive through only. No going down - with the driver/guide giving us a background of the areas we are passing: Colosseum, Forum, Campo di Fiori, Piazza Navona, Trastevere, and Jewish Ghetto. We will stop and go down only at the Pantheon.
Day 4 - Sunday mass, lunch - afternoon free
Day 5- Vatican tour ( 3 hours) , lunch - afternoon free
Day 6 - Rome to Siena with side trip to Assisi (she wants to see Assisi)
Day 7 - Siena City - visit the Duomo, museum and Baptistery, lunch in Siena and back to Il Castagno
Day 8 - Florence - visit Academia, walk to Il Duomo, lunch, then either walk around city OR drive to Pitti Palace (I think she will want to see the Garden and the Royal apartments)AND/OR drive to Piazzale Michelangelo for a quick look at the view, back to Il Castagno
Day 9 - We will have a late start after lunch. Go to San Gimignano - walk around city center, have an early dinner and head back to Il Castagno.
Day 10 - Pienza.
Day 11 - Transfer back to Rome
Day 12 - Christian Rome Tour - The Basilicas and Holy Stairs, drive by the Appian Way
Day 13 - Free day
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Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 11:17 PM
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Assissi is very steep
Alts to Pienza and St Gim. San Quirico is a nice little place (steep but nice little rose garden) very much the small citta, montepulciano is good but v steep, buonconvento is more of a market town with some old stuff but on the valley bottom, (you could visit the monestry above buonconvento which is a tough walk but a significant reigious centre (mont olives magoriore), colle di val d'elsa is a a good walk down (drop off at the car park at the top, walk gently down through some good stuff, take the lift at the bottom to the new town (car pick up), Volterra is good.
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Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 12:07 AM
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Assisi is a piligrim's destination, so you might be able to find a guide through a religious organization that is specifically geared to people who need assistance and could provide a wheelchair.

As mentioned above, San Gimignano and Siena are quite steep places, and both forbid tourist car traffic in and close to the historic center. For Siena, you might be able to work out something whereby your mother can be driven from the parking lot areas up to the Duomo area (in a taxi? or with permission of the city for the day?) but I would just skip San Gimignano. Alternate destinations would be hearing the vespers sung at Sant'Antimo and the ancient baths at Bagno Vignoni. Monteriggioni is close by and flat, and you might consider one of the Chianti villages (Radda, Castellina). If you visit the abbey of Monte Oliveto Maggiore (which also has vespers sung), it should be possible to drive your mother down the hill from the car entrance to the main complex of the abbey, and pick her up afterwards, although someone will need to park the car in the uphill parking lot and walk up and down. Buonconvento is a good lunch destination in a charming flat town. Pienza is also flat. Since the trip is in October, you will also need to be flexible about the weather. I would not attempt the steep stone streets of Siena on a wet day.

I definitely believe you that your mother is looking forward to the excurisons and, just as importantly, is also prepared to speak up/sit out when her own judgment tells her she needs a break. Italian culture is very solicitous of older women, and as you make your arrangements, guides and drivers can be helpful in making sure your mother has everything she needs. Have a great trip!
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Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 01:10 AM
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Martinen,

i do admire you wanting to do this - brava! your idea of having most afternoons free is I think a good one - IME and probably in yours, a nap in the afternoon can keep people going for a lot longer than if they were just trying to keep going.

Looking a your day in Florence can I suggest a little tweek? The traffic in the centre is horrendous and it is really quite difficult to see anything from a car. However if you go up to the Piazzale Michelangelo and carry on up the hill, you have some wonderful views over the city, the Abbey of San Miniato, a gelateria and a restaurant, all of which are accessible by car.

Fiesole might also be a good stop - it's a small town just to the north of Florence on a hill. the centre is quite flat with a Basilica, lovely views over Florence and a very nice restaurant in the centre where you can eat outside under a tree. and the roman amphitheatre if your mum is that way inclined.
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