underradar

My wife and I are thinking about a special-occasion-celebration getaway to Italy in July - no kids. We have been to Tuscany and loved it, but wanted to try something different, preferably by the water. We enjoy walking through towns more than museums and tours. Thinking about the Ligurian Riviera and the lake region. We'd consider the Amalfi region but don't think it makes sense for a four-night trip. We're prepared to pay up for it. Thoughts?

Jean

Which Italian cities you can fly directly to? If Milan is one, would you consider one of the lakes?

franco

Sounds as if Venice is the place for you.

bobthenavigator

Fly into Milan and go to Lago Orta or Stresa on Lago Maggiore. Here are some reasons why:

http://www.slowphotos.com/photo/show...y.php?cat=4173

Love2Knit

Venice, Venice, Venice! Or Cinque Terre!!

underradar

We were thinking of saving Venice for a family trip. We would fly out of NY, so we can fly to Milan directly. We have been to Forte de Marmi and loved it - would consider going back, but wanted to try someplace new.

kfusto

I prefer the Ligurian coast to the Lakes, Venice and the CT. We quite enjoyed Rapallo and it is easy to take the ferry to SML and Portofino from there. There is a centrally located train station and we walked to our hotel, the Europa.

We enjoyed the public markets, long walks and had some lovely meals. In the evenings we watched the moon rise from a table overlooking the sea.

It was romantic and lovely and not swamped with tourists though in July I would expect it to be busy with Italians on holiday.

ekscrunchy

Ligurian Coast is wonderful. You can fly to Genoa from JFK via Paris, and probably on other routes as well. Here is the report I wrote about a trip two years ago. We left JFK in late afternoon and were ensconced at a table overlooking the sea in Camogli for lunch the next day.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-much-else.cfm

Mimar

I was about to tell you to rethink Venice. It's the most romantic of cities, and relatively easy to get to. Four days are perfect for a intoduction to Venice. And it's okay to go twice or more. Some people here on Fodors have been many times for longer and longer stays.

Besides a romantic weekend is not the same as a trip with kids.

But in July Venice will be very crowded. Actually all these destinations are popular in the summer. I'd save the Ligurian coast (of which the Cinque Terre are a part) for another trip with kids. The lakes, especially early in July, might be your best bet. Very relaxing, lovely vistas. Which lake? Depends if you will have a car or not.

underradar

kfusto, Italians on holiday would be fine (we had that experience in Forte de Marmi) - we just don't want our neighbors!!!

I'm leaning to the lake area at this point, as we both are very active and love to hike. Mimar, I know very little about the lake region, although the latest issue of Travel & Leisure has a pretty big article on the lake region. I'm now thinking maybe two nights in the Como area - Casta Vita? - and two in Lake Garda. Now I'm thinking of hotels with good location and good spa facilities. Villa Feltrinelli is over the budget for this one, but I'm not trying to pinch pennies here. Your thoughts are again appreciated!!!

Mimar

I don't know what Casta Vita is. You will want to avoid Como town if hiking is a priority. I know there's a hike out of Varenna, but that's the extent of my knowledge of hikes around Lake Como. Others must help you there.

To be close to Milan airport, consider Lago Maggiore for your second stop.

But once again will you have a car? If you're relying on public transportation, you can't be far from the airport for your flight home. In fact, in Italy in particular I always make sure we're close to the airport the night before our flight home. You can't count on travel going smoothly in Italy.

The more I think about it the more I think you should stay in one place, with quick access to Milan airport. So that means Lago Como or Maggiore.

bobthenavigator

Orta is the closest to MXP and most romantic of the lakes. The T&L article was not very good---she missed the true flavor of the lakes and had numerous geographic errors. If you stay on Lago Como stay in Bellgio, which is not on the east shore as the author stated---the south end and the city of Como is not the best.

underradar

Our last trip to Italy was a family trip to Tuscany and we used the car quite a bit for day trips. I was thinking we would let the destination dictate if we got a car, rather than vice versa. But it seems that I'm better of basing in one spot given the limited time, so it would make sense to have a car so we can see more of the region.

Having now had the chance to read the full T&L article with some care, I see some of the flaws - in particular, no mention of Orta, which many people on these boards rave about. (Frankly, I've never found much use for T&L but needed to do something with some FF miles that were about to expire, so...).

So now I'm focusing on the Grand Hotel Tremezzo. It looks like it has a lot of what we would like - lakefront, with a short ferry to Bellagio, hiking at the hotel, and relatively convenient location to Milan and the rest of the region. Would this be a wise choice? (Ville d'Este is too much money.)

bobthenavigator

GH Tremezzo is a fabulous choice---go for it.

And, the author did mention Orta but completely blew it 3 times when talking about it. Once she said it was :30 from Bellagio--it is clearly about 2 hours. Another time she said it was :10 from Maggiore--it is actually abut :40. Then she gave us a B&B to consider for Orta--it is only :30 from the lake---really feeble jounalism.

underradar

You're right - bobthenavigator - I guess I need to read more carefully. But given the raves about Orta that I have read from others here, I would have expected more than a couple of passing mentions in discussions of other lakes. (Although I note one piece of potentially valuable information in the article - the restaurant at the B&B in Orta apparently offers buffalo mozzarella ice cream with tomato sauce and basil granita - I have to try that).

underradar

So we have decided upon the Grand Hotel Tremezzo as our base - had the best combination of elements for us. I'm looking for advice on two matters:

1. Is there a variety of boat tours of Lake Como? Anyone have recommendations for which one is best?

2. We were planning to drive to the Foxtown outlets in Mendrisio on the way from the airport up to Tremezzo. It's a little bit of a detour, but we're getting in early and have the time. The Foxtown stop entails a few miles of driving into Switzerland, for which it appears a vignette would be required to use the motorway (highway), at a cost of nearly $50 for the day. While we're not on a tight budget, a $50 toll for the amount of driving we'll be doing in Switzerland seems like a waste. Is it viable to use the local roads to get there from the border?

Thanks again.

bobthenavigator

Good choice---you will love the GH Tremezzo.
You do not need "boat tours" per se---just figure out the ferry schedules and set your route.

I would not worry about the vignette on back roads.
Be sure to hit the Villa Balbianello in Lecco.

Heer are some pics you may like.
http://www.slowphotos.com/photo/show...y.php?cat=4442

bobthenavigator

Ooops!
Make that Lenno.

underradar

Well, we are back - I'm sorry to say. We both loved the hotel - it was the right combination of elegance, service and lack of pretense. We walked through the Grand Hotel Serbelloni in Bellagio and Ville D'Este (where we paid 20 Euros for a beer and an iced coffee at the poolside cafe), and this reinforced our choices (and all of your advice).

The recap:

Landed at Malpensa, picked up our rental car and stopped in the Foxtown outlets in Mendrisio on the way up to Tremezzo. We had brought our Garmin to help navigate the back roads but, alas, I forgot that I needed European maps to use it, so we ended up having to shell out 40 Swiss francs for the vignette for the 6 or 7 kilometers of driving in Switzerland that we did. In any case, my wife made sure that we got our 40 francs worth. She thought it was a worthwhile stop. This was the one thing that we actually needed the car for - otherwise it was completely unnecessary. Got to Tremezzo in time to check in, rested up a little while and then took the ferry over to Bellagio, where we ran into a downpour that lasted an hour and set off mudslides around Argenio that closed the road for a couple of days. Headed back for dinner at La Darsena, which had nice views but the food was not our favorite.

On the second day, we got up early for breakfast (the hotel had a great breakfast every morning) and went to Milan since the weather forecast was iffy at the lake. Took the high speed ferry from Tremezzo to Como and then the train. As I said before, we really didn't need a car. Walked around the city quite a bit and did a lot of shopping. We thought Milan was a much prettier city than we had expected, and really enjoyed it. Stopped for an awesome gelato at Riva Reno, then train/boat back to Tremezzo and dinner at Al Veluu in the hills behind the town. Fantastic views and food (not always available in combination), and great people.

Third day - at the hotel's suggestion, we took a hike to an old church called San Martino in the mountains behind the neighboring town of Griante. We thought it would be a leisurely stroll but were surprised to find that it was about 1,000 meters' elevation, and unprepared as we didn't have any water and it was pretty warm. We went up a good distance and decided to head back and not chance trying to finish since there was no water at the top. On the way down, we passed a load of other "hikers" who looked even more unprepared than we were but completely unfazed (including a woman who must have been 80 and was smoking a cigarette while climbing), so we resolved to go back the next day. We spent the rest of the afternoon by the wonderful pool at the back of the hotel, in the gardens. Dinner was in Menaggio, at a restaurant called Il Ristorante down in the main piazza by the lake, followed by a great gelato at Il Gabbiano a short stroll away. We both loved Menaggio, which has more of a nighttime vibe than the other lake towns we saw.

The next day we conquered "Mount San Martino" (turned out we were almost 75% of the way up the day before) and came back to laze in the hotel's spa pool and jacuzzi - perhaps our favorite part of the hotel. The pool and spa are indoor and outdoor, with views out over the lake. Hard to beat. Spent the rest of the day visiting Bellagio and Varenna by ferry. Varenna was picturesque and quiet, but not much to do there. Dinner was at a pizza and pasta restaurant near the Bellagio car ferry - very good. Late boat back to Cadenabbio (ferries run until 11:30pm to there) and then a 15-minute walk back to the hotel.

Last full day was spent first in the sun by the lakeside pool in front of the hotel. We had avoided it the first few days because it didn't look like it would be all that pleasant given the proximity to the road, but it turned out to be fine. Decided to drive down to Ville d'Este to see how the "other half" lived. As described above, we found it stuffy and not relaxed, and thought the midlake region (Tremezzo-Menaggio-Bellagio) was much prettier and more interesting than the lower part of the lake where Ville d'Este is situated. We came back to Tremezzo and then spent the late afternoon reading by the pool before heading to dinner at a wonderful lakeside restaurant in Brienno recommended by the concierge called "Crotto di Platido", followed by a return to our gelato spot in Menaggio, then sadly packed up for home.

Flight arrangements back were fine - the only stress we really encountered on the whole trip was getting our VAT back. You have to walk to one end of Malpensa to check in and get your boarding pass and then all the way back to the other end to get your goods stamped (or, if you want to carry your purchases on the plane with you, you need to check in, find customs in a small office below the check-in point and then stand in another line to get your money back). You need to allow at least 30 minutes for this process. (Oh, and if you bought anything in Switzerland, you need to take care of your tax refunds at the border since Switzerland is not an EU country. Nobody bothered to tell us that in Mendrisio).

All in all, a fabulous trip. The hotel is beautiful, low-key and luxurious, and the staff there was uniformly excellent. It is also a beautiful part of the world to visit. If we were to change anything about the trip, it would have been to NOT use a rental car. It was expensive and not all that necessary, except for the Mendrisio excursion. If you plan to come to the region and just stay by the lake towns, you'll be fine walking, ferrying and taking occasional taxis. If you want to go to Milan, you can ferry to the train. I would not want to take a car to Milan.

Thanks again to all of you for your advice. Ciao.

bobthenavigator

Glad you had a good time---Lago Como is special.