Oh, helpful, puleeeeze! OK, accepting your premise Rick-o is a "wonderful resource" for the inexperienced, lets put them in his hands - and list what they'd learn:<BR>~that hairtcut, yes, is it moe or curly!<BR>~the dessert boots! Yikes. Shine or no!<BR>~the khakis, the shirt, ah ha, I see, I do ... they'd learn the art of the wrinkle!<BR>~the backpack, that material, probably full of old green stamps and National Geo maps - RS would never purchase a real map!<BR>~restaurant carnet in hand - small bills for meals (after all he will be standing up)<BR>~leave the wife, kids in the monk or nun's bed - rick-o is the monastery king! he tours, they wait.<BR>~living life to the full, on the run, head out train windows at every opportunity.<BR>~on cloting: rick-o took the cake ... until I caught Martha, that shirt. apparently dated King Kong at one time. And that's a good thing!<BR><BR>So, give ricko-o to them ... they'll not be inexperienced for long, if they make it. Europe with rick-o, and next year, they'll be on fodors getting a bus schedule to Sedona and the beeeg island, whatever that is.

Uncle Sam~~ your posts are always amazingly stupid. Glad you didn't let me down. The point is: Rick's entire travel philosophy is about getting to know the locals, doing things off the beaten path, so obviously knowing at least 1 second language would be helpful in this pursuit. And again (you really aren't as clever as you think) Spanish or French would be the obvious choices.

Never, ever criticise something or someone that large numbers of Americans have become attached too--to do so will subject you to cries of snobbery. Nothing seems to stir up certain segments of the population as much as the hint that their taste, choices, etc. are less than great.

Rick Steves is a great resource for people planning their FIRST-EVER trip to Europe. After that, toss the RS books- you've already figured out as much as Rick has. He has gross taste in food and suspect taste in hotels, and yes, he has "spoiled" places that were hitherto relatively sparsely visited by putting them on *his* map. And yes, he looks incredibly stupid wearing that blue shirt and sticking his neck out the window of trains (I've been hoping for years he'd get it lopped off), but the guy latched onto a travel idea that any one of the Fodorites with half a brain could have, but didn't....sell *intimate* Europe to people from Nebraska who've never been but don't want to admit they went on a tour. They did it THEMSELVES!!! YAY!!! WOW!!! Something to come home and brag to the neighbors about - we went to Italy ALL BY OURSELVES and got along FINE!! Kudos.<BR><BR>The thing about him not speaking a word of other languages bothers me, too. Who in their right mind spends as much time as he does in Europe without taking the trouble to learn a few phrases in ALL the languages of the countries he deals with and at least pronounce them somewhat recognizably? Sorry, Uncle Sam, but I consider it a sign of respect to speak the language of a country I'm visiting, and even when I've made quick trips to places like Greece and Turkey where I had NO background in the language, I at least spent the plane ride cramming. Not to do so is the first sign of an Ugly American, in my book.<BR>Sure, Rick was the first to make Europe a playground for middle-class America, and that's great. But he's such a dorky guy it's hard not to make fun of him. And yes, he has cast a pall over some hitherto lovely places by <BR>*discovering* them and then declaring them undiscovered. Lucky for me he hasn't even come close to my territory, and if he does, won't be welcome.

I have to admit, I do use Rick Steve's Guidebooks! I enjoy his shows, too! The last trip to Europe, I found lots and lots of people carrying his books. So, I decided on my game plan to enjoy my trips even more. I always buy his books to my planned destinations, review them thoroughly, find what cities and places he recommends, and then avoid them, so I don't have to put up with the additional tourists he has generated.

<BR>Susan, whatever your choices are in Europe, I am sure I would find them less than great.

My niece and family ran into Rick at the<BR>Relais Bosquet last month; he was re-<BR>visiting his recommended hotels in Paris<BR>- so he is working for his living!<BR><BR>I think PBS takes advantage of all of<BR>us by continually repeating his old<BR>trips - those kids of his are probably<BR>out of college by now! Last year the<BR>Seattle PBS station tempted us with a<BR>more recent series - no 'head out the<BR>window/goofy look'.<BR><BR>He is a bit of a dweeb but although I<BR>don't use his books anymore I think he<BR>is well-intentioned and has helped a<BR>lot of people find there way to Europe<BR>- not a bad thing!

I personally think Rick probably speaks several languages fairly well, but the whole point of his videos is to show people that they can travel and interact with locals even if they know only English. If he came across as fluent in his videos, he would lose some of his following.

I found his hotel suggestions helpful when I was younger and more of a budge traveler in europe. But his dining picks: ugh! I was never a fan of his advice to picnic and eat standing at a counter. Especially in Italy, a lot of the joy of traveling is having fabulous -- sit down -- meals. And you can do this cheaply if need be. I think he might have a problem with pleasure, come to think of it.

Fairly interesting discussion on Rick! Let me add my two cents: We used his recommendations for a week in Alsace/Colmar, France last month and had mixed results. His recommended B&B "Maison Jund" turned out to be a "dump" - swaybacked bed and continually running toilet - we transferred to a Ibis Hotel a few blocks away. However, his restaurant suggestions were right on! Locals also recommended the same and we found them to both excellent and reasonable. <BR><BR>I must comment that we are long time budget travelers who were introduced to this style in 1969 Frommer's Europe on $5 a day!! We had a ball. <BR><BR>One observation: we noticed that by following both Frommers and Rick's "budget" suggestions that we met many Brit's and Europeans. Far fewer Americans. Rick's style is not for everyone but it does serve as an option for the budget and independent minded traveler.

These threads about Steves always amuse me, especially comments from food snobs like StomachAche who apparently feel it's impossible to get what *they* consider decent food at any Steves-recommended restaurant. <BR><BR>While, like any travel author, Steves undoubtedly would like people to buy, and use, his books, he never argues that one should use *only* his books as a travel resource, that he has the definitive answer on everything in Europe. <BR><BR>I've always used his books as one of many resources and have found them very worthwhile. On our trip to Italy & France this spring, we stayed in a wonderful full-of-character locanda in Siena, which was mentioned in his book, and we stayed in a nice private room in Vernazza, overlooking the harborside piazza, also in his book. And the hotel I stay at in Nice -- five times since 1994 including this most recent trip -- I also found in his book. <BR><BR>As for places to eat, we went to two places mentioned in his Italy book: an osteria in Siena, Osterna Nona Gina, which was one of our favorite places on our trip, and a funky little place called Filetti di Baccala, near Campo di Fiori in Rome, just to try a couple pieces of baccala (deep-fried cod) which, while certainly not gourmet food, were quite tasty.

It's funny for me to read these posts about how Rick Steves 'roughs it' too much, when I can't even afford most of the accomodations in his book. Some times I wonder why I come to this site at all; I am so sick of reading 'I NEED a five star,' 'please post your favorite LUXURY hotel in Paris,' etc, etc. Sorry, but sometimes it just sounds so spoiled and naive. No wonder the Europeans hate us.

For Lina above~~ No Rick actually makes a point of saying he does not speak any other language than English. Unfortunately I don't think he is incredibly fluent and just keeping it a secret to make us feel more confident. I find that to be an arrogant attitude.<BR><BR>By the way, I speak only English, but study Spanish and/or French before each trip to have a few phrases pulled together. AND I have the good sense to be embarrassed at my lack of education (most Europeans are at least bi-lingual from their basic schooling).

Even Rick Steves says you should use other guidebooks such as Michelin. I always use RS as a starting point because he just seems to do an overview so well. Also look at his old tapes just to familiarize myself with where I am going.

lol<BR><BR>i dont know who rick steves is <BR>i've never watched his shows <BR>i didnt even know he had a show <BR>and i've never read a book of his<BR><BR>but this tread is so funny !!<BR><BR>how yall argue 'bout if he's good or not, dorky or not [which i most definately think he'd be to be the way he seems to be], and the 80s t-shirt wearing thing, and the head out of the window while in a train.....<BR><BR>this guy sounds like someone i would make fun of <BR><BR>only thing though im gonna have to read at least on of his books and try to catch a show <BR><BR>but i was wondering how yall associate "wearing an 80s t-shirt with given reviews on places??" <BR><BR>how is it that what one wears affects any place ??<BR><BR>keep up the humor!!

Rick Steves is not remotely fluent, I don't think he speaks any foreign language at any level but a few words. Actually, I'm surprised he has not bothered or tried to learn a foreign language given his career is travel, but some people are terrible with languages and simply cannot learn (although I would think he could as his story says he used to be a piano teache which implies he could have a good ear for sounds). His French pronunciation is not very good so I know he's not fluent. Also, I commented one in a letter to him on his travelogue for Egypt, as I'd been there, he wanted comments from those who knew the place (I can't recall where he solicited these, perhaps his web site) -- and in this travelogue he got just a few basic words of Arabic wrong. I don't even know Arabic much at all, I only studied it a very little to travel there, but even I knew the few words he had were not correct. He just doesn't care about languages, I just don't think he's interested in learning very much.<BR><BR>I never had much opinion of him except I didn't like his guidebooks that much, as I didn't watch his TV show, but I recently picked up his Postcards from Europe book at the library and found some of his writing and behavior rather adolescent and misogynistic, and crass. I don't care for his writing style, that's true, but it wasn't just that. I really disliked some of it--the attitudes he expressed and the way he behaved. He talked about advising women to go to an Italian bar or restaurant where he knew the owner would physically grab or touch them uninvited and he didn't seem to even care or think what this guy was doing was wrong (he was not straightforward in telling the women what this guy's behavior was like, either, he claimed it was okay to continue to recommend this place as long as he used some euphemism, which wasn't even clear to me, as for how this guy would manhandle female tourists). I think he talked about stealing things in there and mooning people, also.<BR>

Nowhere: It is "ya'll" not "yall"<BR><BR>I'm astonished Rick is worshipped around here as he is politically liberal as the day is long - which makes sense as he likes to tell others how to live!

It's y'all. Apostrophe substituting the "ou" in you and all.<BR><BR>Unless you really mean to shorten ya all. In which case ya'll would do.

Never saw his show, never read his guidebooks...but....as I am planning my first time trip to Europe, I have seen some good info on his website (grafitti wall...good (and some bad!) tips from posters), plus got his Eurail guide. That is a wonderful book...really helps compare passes vs. individual tickets. I've also read Fodors and Frommers guides, and asked everyone I know who has already been. I'm learning a lot, and don't really care if the guy wears a geeky shirt!

Please stop bashing my husband and giving him fashion advice. I encourage him to go on as many trips as possible - do you think I want to be seen with him? Next thing you know he'll start wearing black, head to toe, and we'll have to start going out in public together.

Christina, I'd be curious to know exactly where -- in Steves' Postcards from Europe book -- you read about him advising women to go to an Italian bar or restaurant where, you claim, he knew the owner would physically grab or touch them uninvited and, you also claim, he didn't seem to even care or think what this guy was doing was wrong. <BR><BR>I read the book and don't recall anything of that nature at all so if you can point it out to me I'd appreciate it. On the other hand, if you can't point it out to me, and others, I don't think you should be making such claims. <BR>____________________<BR><BR>On another note, I just looked at Steves' Italy book for 2002, which we used. In the Introduction, he has a section on "Recommended Guidebooks" where he mentions people may want to look at and/or bring the following: <BR><BR>. Lonely Planet's Italy <BR>. Rough Guide to Italy<BR>. Let's Go: Italy <BR>. Eyewitness guides<BR>. Michelin guides <BR>. Cadogan guides<BR><BR>As for the language issue, I know from eleven trips to Europe that one does not have to be fluent in a European language in order to have an enjoyable trip. And this is all that Steves essentially says. I have always seen him point out, however, that it's to one's benefit to know and speak *some* of any language, especially words and phrases of courtesy.

Author: language deficient ([email protected])<BR>Date: 07/25/2002, 07:49 pm<BR>Message: Uncle Sam~~ your posts are always amazingly stupid. Glad you didn't let me down. The point is: Rick's entire travel philosophy is about getting to know the locals, doing things off the beaten path, so obviously knowing at least 1 second language would be helpful in this pursuit. And again (you really aren't as clever as you think) Spanish or French would be the obvious choices<BR><BR>LD,<BR><BR>You really aren't being very nice, now are you.<BR><BR>I understood your point but he is obviously a huge success wihtout learning a second language.<BR><BR>I mean who do you htink that he is writing for....Americand get it...and we speak English..unless of course you include those that speak Spanish and are here illegally!<BR><BR>And BTW, why French or Spanish...I'll bet there are more German speakers in Europe than either French or spanish....not so obvious a choice now is it?<BR><BR>BTW ...care to palce a bet on that "intelligence deficient"?<BR><BR>US

<BR><BR>ATTENTION "FACTS" AND "MORE FACTS" <BR><BR>while i dont really care for grammar lessons i think YALL should know that i couldnt care less how yall spell anything <BR><BR>i post here to interact with the nice fun people around here not for smart butts like yous guys <BR><BR>keep the fun nice people coming !!

ATTE STEVE'S WIFE <BR><BR>REMEMBER THAT <BR><BR>"FASHION IS WHAT ONE WEARS, UNFASHIONABLE IS WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WEAR" <BR><BR>80'S SHIRTS MUST BE COOL IN YOUR HUSBAND'S BOOK

I waanted to post a reply but my goodness so many responses. Someone said that it dosen't mater wether they talk good or bad as long as they talk. You Go Rick!!!

Uncle Sam... NO there are NOT more German speakers in Europe than French or Spanish. "I'll bet" and "not so obvious a choice now" are vague and bumbling opinions & arguments of yours, not fact-based in any way, shape, or form.

Hey guys, Rick is a guide, not a GOD...if you don't like him, take your own road....nuff said..

ATTENTION, NOWHERE...<BR><BR>My point exactly. I thought it silly that that "facts" corrected you in the first place. So I made my own facetious correction. <BR><BR>My apologies that the joke wasn't so clear.<BR><BR>So y'all come back now, y'hear?

So, Eleven trips, you think you don't have to speak the language, eh? Well, I suggest that if you did your experience would have been enhanced 100-fold. Just my experience (I speak 5 languages, can get by in another dozen. Speaking the languages opens doors you can't imagine, if you're flying by on high school French, it won't fly). Good luck, brother...

Bilingual,<BR><BR>care to prove your point?<BR><BR>German is spoken in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Northern Italy, far Western edges of France, parts of Belgium.<BR><BR>Spanish is spoken in Spain....and...<BR><BR>French is spoken in France, Switzerland...and...<BR><BR>Close call, and I'll concede if you have the #'s<BR><BR>US

Bilingual,<BR><BR>According to my old Atlas dated 1989 the following population numbers are given:<BR><BR>West Germany...61.6 million<BR>East Germany...16.7 million<BR>Austria...7.5 million<BR><BR>total...85.8 million probable German speakers<BR><BR><BR>Spain...37.4 million<BR><BR>France...53.8 million<BR><BR>I doubt that there has been that much of a change in the past 12 years.<BR><BR>Looks like German would be the one.<BR><BR>US

ATTE "MORE FACTS" <BR><BR>thank you <BR><BR>i get it now .....<BR><BR>must forgive the SLOW by birth <BR><BR>=0)<BR><BR>u cool in my book

Uncle Spam, you included Austria in your numbers for German speakers, but conveniently left out Luxembourg and Belgium for the French speakers. Not to mention the Arabs in Europe, for most of whom French is the second language after Arabic.<BR>Also, Germany has one of the fastest declining populations in Europe.

XXX,<BR><BR>I only included the areas where I thought the language was spoken exclusively.<BR><BR>Besides you cannnot include Belgium in the French camp as they also speak Walloon and German. I'll concede Luexmbourg, but regardless it seems that there would have to have been a huge increase in French and a huge decrease in German to overcome the difference.<BR><BR>US

Thanks for all the publicity. Very few topics on this forum get this much response. I guess I will make a few more mil. this year, take a few more trips and buy some more shirts (from my own company since I can afford it). Keep traveling, reading my books and watching my shows!!!!

Uncle Sam, the Walloons ARE the French speakers of Belgium. I think you meant the Flemish. German is spoken primarily at the German border (obviously), i.e., in the Ardennes and towns like Eupen that once actually were German.

Btilke,<BR><BR>Thank you for the correct information. I clearly had them reversed.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>US

I'd pay money to see Lang. Deficient and US in a mud wrestling match.<BR><BR>These postings are great. Rick is our American nerd - let's just claim him our own and be over with it. Sure we can't dress him or keep his head in a train but then if he did, what would we talk about - real European travel tips? Perish the thought. I watch Rick's shows because I will use any excuse to drool at European settings. I have had several set backs over the last 15 yrs for my first trip to France but will finally make it next year. Please God, Allah, etc. answer my prayers and have Rick meet me in Versailles!!!

OK Uncle Sam... so LEARN German... if that floats your boat.<BR><BR>But getting back to the original point, DO learn a 2nd language for ease and enjoyment when traveling.<BR><BR><BR>

<BR>Uncle Sam:<BR>Here's an amazing fact for you: the country that has the most French speakers outside of France is...<BR><BR>CANADA! Your next door neighbour! <BR><BR>You are so ignorant!