Michael

We need help with how best to spend 7 days by the Rhine and Berlin. This is our first trip to Germany and we are loath to admit that we are barely familiar with the place. We will be arriving and departing from Frankfurt during late August and early September 2000. We would like to time spend on the Rhine and also if possible Berlin. Does it make sense to say settle down in St. Goar for instance and take daily trips to the surrounding towns. Are reservations a must or can we meander up or down river and spend the night wherever night falls? Should we drive or take trains or boats. Are three days enough time to sample this area? What about Berlin are trains available from Frankfurt? We welcome any insight, all itineraries and recommendations from all who have traveled this area and know the terraine. <BR>Thank you,

Patrick

My suggestion would be to spend 3 nights in Rudesheim on the Rhine, a lively, albeit touristy, little town with fun restaurants and entertainment, a lift to the hill and the vineyards, and frequent boats you can take up and down the river without reservations to do some visiting, and return to Rudesheim at night. Have spent some time in that area, and I feel St. Goar and others are a little too quiet as a base, but that is personal opinion. Will be making my first trip to Berlin this year myself, so can't help you there and am in a hurry now, so will let someone else answer your train question. Have fun. The KD Rhine boats are free with Eurail and I suspect with the German rail pass, which might be your best way to travel from Frankfurt to the Rhine, to Berlin, and back and have the boat bonus thrown it.

Lee

Michael: Having visited the middle Rhine area while living in Frankfurt and again on a trip in '97 and '99, I would suggest Assmanshausen. It's about five Km from Rudesheim and across from castle Rheinstein. Good base and you can ferry your car across just up the road at Lorch for about 10 DM. <BR> <BR>If money is no object, stay at the beautiful Hotel Krone. If cost is considered, stay like we did at the Hotel Cafe' Post, which is clean, comfortable and right on the river. <BR> <BR>Be sure to see the Lorelei Rock, Rudesheim and the cable car ride to the Neiderwald Monument, the Deutches Eck in Koblenz, Bacharach, St. Goars and Rheinfels ruin, Mainz and so much more. There must be 25 castles in this 100 km stretch of river! You will love it! <BR> <BR>Both hotels have websites that you can visit. We booked online, also. <BR> <BR>Trains are certainly available from Frankfurt to Berlin. It's a long trip and I've only taken it by plane, so I'm not sure how long it is by train. Probably a great trip, though. <BR> <BR>Have fun!

wes fowler

Michael, <BR>You can do the trip from Frankfurt to Berlin by train in as little as three and a half hours. I second the recommendation of staying in Assmannshausen rather than Rudesheim; it's a smaller and far less "touristy" town and the Hotel Cafe Post is a bargain. Being "barely familiar with the place", I'd suggest you take a look at the website: www.loreleyvalley.com <BR>It's extremely "busy" with an awful lot of print on the page, but once you start exploring the links, things brighten up a bit. You'll find a link to Assmannshausen and the Hoel Cafe Post among other info regarding boat trips, castle tours and the like.

miriam

Hi Michael, <BR>referring to your question about a train connecting Frankfurt and Berlin.There´s a special train called the "Berlin Sprinter". It leaves Frankfurt every hour and it takes around 4 hours to reach Berlin Zoo without changing trains. However I think it´s rather expensive and I would always take a plane. Single fare is 210 DM and you`ll have to pay for seat reservations and the 1.class ticket which I would always recommend when taking the train. It can happen that there is a fair in either city and you´ll have to stand in the aisle for the whole trip. For that price you can easily get a Lufthansa or Deutsche BA ticket and you´re right there where you have to be for your flight home. <BR> <BR>Regards <BR> <BR>Miriam

Martin

You also might want to consider touring the nearby Mosel river valley instead (or in addition to) the Rhine. I like both but preferred the Mosel because it seemed to have more natural beauty, more small wineries and was a little less touristy. Either choice, you will be thrilled.

Ben Haines

Fodors <BR> <BR>The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European Timetable. Tables 850 and 900 cover trains from Frankfurt to Berlin. As Ms Kuer-Berk says, trains leave Frankfurt hourly from 0635 and take five hours to Berlin. The single second class fare is 154 marks, and you add about ten marks for use of the InterCity Express (ICE) train. I see no need to book first class, and since the ICE supplement includes a seat reservation I see no need to stand. <BR> <BR>Time is short, so if you sleep well on trains you might think of the night train. Biard at Frankfurt about 2200, leave 2220, arrive Berlin Ostbahnhof 0642 or Berlin Zoo 0826). The train has couchettes, sleepers, and a buffet car. The fare if you use second-class, three-berth, sleepers is about 300 marks. <BR> <BR>Trains bachkfrom Berlin arrive at Frankfurt main station, where you wheel our luggage either around to the next express train at 46 minutes past each hour to the airport, or down the lift to the next stopping train to the airport: there are four or five each hour. <BR> <BR>You need no car in the Rhine valley. A local line runs four times an hour from the airport to Weisbaden. Trains leave Wiesbaden at 0610 (not Sundays), 0710, 0837, 0910, 1037, 1110, and so on and take 33 minutes to Rudesheim and a little more to Assmannshausen. Or from Mondays to Fridays you can take a local train straight from the airport to Rudesheim and Assmanshausen at 0824, 1024, and every two hours. Once in your in your hotel, you'll find that boats are fairly frequent, and local trains are every two hours, on both banks. <BR> <BR>Plesase write if I can help further. Welcome to Europe. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines, London <BR> <BR>

Beth

I agree with Martin. Make sure you see the Mosel. I went several years ago, saw the Mosel first. Fellow travelers were anticipating the Rhine. However the Mosel is better. Also don't leave out Heidelberg. I rented a car and found it easy to drive and it allowed me more freedom. I never keep the car in a big city (Berlin)

wes fowler

Michael, <BR>Some more thoughts: <BR>You could really maximize your time, minimize packing and unpacking every <BR>other night or so, and see more than you perhaps anticipate. If you're up <BR>to it upon your arrival in Frankfurt, I'd suggest you grab a cup of coffee, <BR>rent a car and once the coffee takes effect, drive to Assmannshausen less <BR>that 60 km(36mi) from the airport. The town is a good starting point <BR>for a trip up the Rhine Valley. (Take a look at the website <BR>www.loreleyvalley.com. It's a very "busy" website with an awful lot of <BR>script jammed into every avialable space. At the top of the page, click on <BR>Assmannshausen and you'll be led to a number of hotels; check out the site <BR>for the Hotel Café Post.) It's in a lovely village on the banks of the <BR>Rhine and a quiet spot to recover from your flight. A lot cheaper than a <BR>Frankfurt hotel, too. <BR> <BR>You might consider a three night stay here, with your second day in Europe <BR>devoted to driving up the east bank of the Rhine to just south of Koblenz, <BR>crossing the Rhine and descending on the western side of the river to <BR>Bingen where you can ferry back to Assmannshausen. The total roundtrip <BR>encompasses less that 150km(90mi) but will take a full day if you stop at <BR>the Lorelei overlook and some of the castles on the western bank. <BR> <BR>Dedicate your third day to a scenic part of the Moselle Valley from <BR>Bernkastel Kues to Trier and Trier itself. Ferry to Bingen and pick up Rte <BR>42 to Bernkastel, then Rte 53 to Trier. This route is approximately 240 <BR>kms(150mi) round trip and should occupy your entire day. <BR> <BR>The Michelin Green guide has excellent suggestions both for the Rhine and <BR>Moselle valleys as well as Trier. Look for the entries for Moseltal and <BR>Rheintal. <BR> <BR>Now, on day four, off to Heidelberg for a tour of the town and an overnight <BR>stay. It's about 105km(65mi) from Assmannshausen, a short enough distance <BR>that you'd have most of the day for sightseeing. (I can't recommend <BR>accommodations in Heidelberg; been too many years since I've been there.) <BR>On day five, off to Berlin for the remainder of your stay <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

kim

I have taken the night train from Berlin to Frankfurt and had a very pleasant experience. I had a rail pass, so I didn't need to worry about the price of the train ticket, only the extra charge for the sleeper car, so there may be less expensive alternatives. The price we paid for a 2 person sleeper was comparable to the price of a hotel room (appr $120) and the it was one of the nicest rooms we stayed in! For someone who hasn't spent much time on trains, it was a novelty and a good night sleep, well worth it!

Lee

Michael: Wes is right on, as usual. His itinerary sounds good. <BR> <BR>If you make reservations at the Cafe' Post in Assmanshausen, you can request that Herr and Frau Hotger accept you in the morning. When we arrived last May, there were five of us in three rooms. We drove over from the airport and walked through Rudesheim (it's on the way) for maybe an hour and drove to Assmanshausen. Frau Hotger provided breakfast for us while our rooms were prepared. We got some rest from about 10:30 until 2:00, showered and headed out. We walked along the river by taking the ramp that goes under the river road and strolled along the river which was very busy. We then drove to the top of Lorelei Rock and afterward headed for Koblenz where we had dinner along the river. Since the Deutches Eck was just five minutes away, we stopped there and enjoyed the pleasant summer evening. We were back at our hotel by 10:00 for a nightcap before calling it a day. All of us were rested and felt fine the next morning. If you let Frau Hotger know when you will like breakfast, she'll try to accommodate you. <BR> <BR>Heidelburg is a pleasant university city with a castle well worth seeing at the top of the hill above the Neckar River. <BR> <BR>Have a fun trip!