Revised Italy itinerary--a couple of questions
Jan 9th, 2012, 09:18 AM
#1
Original Poster
Revised Italy itinerary--a couple of questions
We decided to abandon the idea of combining Croatia and Italy into one trip (my other post). We’ve chosen to stay with Italy. Here’s the revised expanded Italy itinerary. My main questions are: should we switch the travel order of Siena and Perugia? We’ll be travelling by train from Ravenna. And which would be the better one from which to proceed to Orvieto?
All of these cities/towns will be new to us except Rome (been there twice before). This time there we’re going to do some of the day trips that we’ve always wanted to do. I realize that it seems like we’re moving around quite a bit, but overall I think it flows nicely. And hopefully the pace in the smaller towns won’t make it feel too hectic. What do you think? Should we subtract one night from Rome and add a night to Perugia or Orvieto instead?
Day 1. Fly overnight to Venice. Arrive mid-morning, then train to Padua directly from airport.
Days 2-3. Padua (2 nights) (Giotto frescoes).
Day 4. Train to Verona (1 night) (Opera)
Days 5-6. Train to Ravenna (2 nights) (Mosaics)
Days 7-9. Train to Siena (3 nights) Day trip to San Gimignamo. Another day -wine tour
Days 10-11. Train or bus to Perugia (2 nights) Day trip to Assisi
Day 12. Bus to Orvieto (1 night)
Days 13-16. Train or bus to Rome (4 nights) Day trip to Ostia Antica. Day trip to Tivoli (Hadrian’s Villa)
Day 17. Fly home from Rome.
Thanks.
All of these cities/towns will be new to us except Rome (been there twice before). This time there we’re going to do some of the day trips that we’ve always wanted to do. I realize that it seems like we’re moving around quite a bit, but overall I think it flows nicely. And hopefully the pace in the smaller towns won’t make it feel too hectic. What do you think? Should we subtract one night from Rome and add a night to Perugia or Orvieto instead?
Day 1. Fly overnight to Venice. Arrive mid-morning, then train to Padua directly from airport.
Days 2-3. Padua (2 nights) (Giotto frescoes).
Day 4. Train to Verona (1 night) (Opera)
Days 5-6. Train to Ravenna (2 nights) (Mosaics)
Days 7-9. Train to Siena (3 nights) Day trip to San Gimignamo. Another day -wine tour
Days 10-11. Train or bus to Perugia (2 nights) Day trip to Assisi
Day 12. Bus to Orvieto (1 night)
Days 13-16. Train or bus to Rome (4 nights) Day trip to Ostia Antica. Day trip to Tivoli (Hadrian’s Villa)
Day 17. Fly home from Rome.
Thanks.
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:02 AM
#2
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We spent 2 months in that area when I retired 2 years ago so know you will enjoy your trip. We tend to stay put in an apt and travel out on days trips, so I was wondering if you had actually gone in and investigated the train/bus schedules for your plan? At first glance, for me, it seemed like a great deal of time was transportation/finding hotel with so many moves that you might not realize how much time that might take in the overall plan of your trip.
Switching Siena/Perugia, for me, would depend on the train/bus schedule. Had you thought about renting a car? Picking up in Venice and dropping in Orvieto vs the costs and time of all those trains/buses? ciao
Switching Siena/Perugia, for me, would depend on the train/bus schedule. Had you thought about renting a car? Picking up in Venice and dropping in Orvieto vs the costs and time of all those trains/buses? ciao
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:26 AM
#4
Seven hotels in 16 days is moving. If this is the style of travel you enjoy, then your plan is geographically logical. I wouldn't describe all of these towns as small, so I'm not sure you're going to find the pace in all of them is particularly slow. In high season some of these towns are downright hectic.
I wouldn't add a night to Orvieto, although it's likely to be one of the quieter places you go. You could even drop Orvieto as an overnight stop, add the night to Rome and make a day-trip to Orvieto during your time in Rome.
I wouldn't add a night to Orvieto, although it's likely to be one of the quieter places you go. You could even drop Orvieto as an overnight stop, add the night to Rome and make a day-trip to Orvieto during your time in Rome.
Jan 9th, 2012, 10:55 AM
#5
Original Poster
I just don't know how to cut down on the quantity of different hotel lodgings, except to eliminate the Orvieto night by adding it to Rome. Would it be better to add it to Perugia or Siena instead? Should the Siena and Pergia stays be combined as one, then do a lot of day trips from that one place?
We really don't like driving, unless necessary. We'd rather take public transportation. The buses and train do seem to get us to each location. I agree that the time checking in, moving on, etc, may get to be a drag. But it would be close to the same with or without a car, right?
We really don't like driving, unless necessary. We'd rather take public transportation. The buses and train do seem to get us to each location. I agree that the time checking in, moving on, etc, may get to be a drag. But it would be close to the same with or without a car, right?
Jan 9th, 2012, 11:30 AM
#7
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a huge improvement, though you will be plenty active!
I envy your having more time in Padua. We saw the Giottos but did not get to the basilica or the piazzas on the other side of the city (there are streetcars that will get you there).
Which opera are you seeing in Verona? I envy you.
I hope you will report back after your trip. I am particularly interested in your experience getting to Perugia.
I'm betting that one of the two day trips in Rome will fall by the wayside, but nothing wrong with that. It gives you a good reason to go back!
I envy your having more time in Padua. We saw the Giottos but did not get to the basilica or the piazzas on the other side of the city (there are streetcars that will get you there).
Which opera are you seeing in Verona? I envy you.
I hope you will report back after your trip. I am particularly interested in your experience getting to Perugia.
I'm betting that one of the two day trips in Rome will fall by the wayside, but nothing wrong with that. It gives you a good reason to go back!
Jan 9th, 2012, 11:43 AM
#8
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not skip Orvieto and add the night/day to Perugia. Perugia is an excellent base for day trips using train/bus and the town itself offers a lot to enjoy. Orvieto is nice, but so are Spello, Spoleto, Gubio and Todi, all good day trips from Perugia. Even Cortona or a day on the nearby lake are easy possiblities from Perugia.
Save Orvieto for a possible day trip from Rome, either on this trip or another trip.
Save Orvieto for a possible day trip from Rome, either on this trip or another trip.
Jan 9th, 2012, 12:00 PM
#9
Original Poster
Maybe I won't cut any lodging out, just choose a different city. How about Assisi instead of Perugia, since that is the prime destination for us in Umbria? We want to spend a lot of time with all that art in the Basilica. This way we could relax and stay put for two days (no day trips). Then on to Orvieto for the one night on the way to Rome.
Opera=Tosca. My husband has been wanting to do this arena venue for years. The trip is planned around it. Nothing else but Verona opera and lodging is booked.
I wonder too about the second day trip (Tivoli) from Rome. It's very near the end of the trip, so it will depend on our energy. I really would like to see it though.
Opera=Tosca. My husband has been wanting to do this arena venue for years. The trip is planned around it. Nothing else but Verona opera and lodging is booked.
I wonder too about the second day trip (Tivoli) from Rome. It's very near the end of the trip, so it will depend on our energy. I really would like to see it though.
Jan 9th, 2012, 12:17 PM
#11
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah, I now have a better understanding of your priorities. It sounds like staying in Assisi, maximizing your time there, and still visiting Orvieto is a good plan. Assisi is smaller and less congested than Perugia.
Jan 9th, 2012, 12:53 PM
#12
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In August and September, which is when this trip is, Assisi is not going to be "less congested" than Perugia unless you hit the Perugia jazz festival. Assisi is generally mobbed with tourists and pilgrims, and for all its astonishing artwork, many people loathe being their for the commercialized, touristy feel of the town.
Overall, you need to be aware that it is likely to be wiltingly hot and muggy in the new destinations you've chosen -- although millions of tourists take these routes every summer and return to say they coped and loved it.
But your plan to utilize public transportation for so many day trips begins to bump into the problem of the midday closings in many of the places you've targeted. If it is your custom and joy to roll out of bed every morning by 7, grab a breakfast and trot to the train station, you'll arrive at your daytrip destination with time to see church interiors and museums. But aren't getting onto a train until 10am, you'll be arriving as things start to shut, and you'll be waiting for them to re-open at 3:30 or 4 (lunch only fills so much of that time), and then worried that you need to hurry up to make sure you are making your way back in time to take a shower before dinner.
Renting an air conditioned car and staying in the countryside would be a big help for a great deal of your touring.
I'm a little sorry you gave up on your plan to see a really marvelous and uncrowded part of Italy, that offered you amazing antiquity and attractive art cities and villages, plus nearby beaches or high mountains for heat-relief, and outstanding food and wine. With the exception of Padova, every single place you are going will be jammed to the gills with tourists, with only a slight relief from them at night.
You will of course see and taste beautiful things on your present itinerary. But you will be in a river of mass tourism at least 80 percent of the time. LIke I said, many people find a way to cope.
Overall, you need to be aware that it is likely to be wiltingly hot and muggy in the new destinations you've chosen -- although millions of tourists take these routes every summer and return to say they coped and loved it.
But your plan to utilize public transportation for so many day trips begins to bump into the problem of the midday closings in many of the places you've targeted. If it is your custom and joy to roll out of bed every morning by 7, grab a breakfast and trot to the train station, you'll arrive at your daytrip destination with time to see church interiors and museums. But aren't getting onto a train until 10am, you'll be arriving as things start to shut, and you'll be waiting for them to re-open at 3:30 or 4 (lunch only fills so much of that time), and then worried that you need to hurry up to make sure you are making your way back in time to take a shower before dinner.
Renting an air conditioned car and staying in the countryside would be a big help for a great deal of your touring.
I'm a little sorry you gave up on your plan to see a really marvelous and uncrowded part of Italy, that offered you amazing antiquity and attractive art cities and villages, plus nearby beaches or high mountains for heat-relief, and outstanding food and wine. With the exception of Padova, every single place you are going will be jammed to the gills with tourists, with only a slight relief from them at night.
You will of course see and taste beautiful things on your present itinerary. But you will be in a river of mass tourism at least 80 percent of the time. LIke I said, many people find a way to cope.
Jan 9th, 2012, 01:19 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We spent two weeks in Umbria this past fall, and I loved Perugia...I would keep it as base there. We never actually made it to Assisi, though we drove past it multiple times. I prefer the art and the ambience of the small, ancient chapels to the big cathedrals, but that's a personal taste. We stayed in a flat outside of Spoleto in a small village and it was heavenly. It was surprising how much ground we were able to cover in day trips, but we were blown away to learn the three British ladies staying in the flat above ours actually managed a day trip to Pompeii!
I think you would definitely enjoy Gubio, Spello and possibly Spoleto. Click on my name to see my recent trip report on Umbria. We rented a car, but that's our standard practice. We also talked with fellow travelers in various towns who were staying elsewhere and using public transportation or even cabs.
I think you would definitely enjoy Gubio, Spello and possibly Spoleto. Click on my name to see my recent trip report on Umbria. We rented a car, but that's our standard practice. We also talked with fellow travelers in various towns who were staying elsewhere and using public transportation or even cabs.
Jan 9th, 2012, 01:24 PM
#14
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also wanted to add:
Cutting all the way across Italy to San Gimignano and Siena in August would not be much choice. Have you any feeling for basing in Umbria, and ultimately dropping the car off in Orvieto and taking the train to Rome?
Umbria is one of the very simplest of places to drive in Italy. But even if you wanted to stick to trains and buses, you can make a go of it using Perugia or Spoleto as a base.
Perugia is a univeristy city that empties out during summer vacation. It has tremendous history and architectural interest, and one of Italy's finest art museums. Just make sure you avoid the jazz festival.
If you want something smaller, Spoleto would do the trick, and it has a train station that will take you to Perugia, Assisi and Orvieto, and buses to villages.
But a car would give you some freedom and you could stay someplace lovely -- a winery, a vegetarian retreat (St Francis loved animals), someplace near walking trails.
If have a very specific interest in particular sights in Siena and San Gimignano, then by all means go. But Italy is jammed up with interest everywhere you turn, some of it completely left out of guidebooks but no less eye-opening. You don't have to wait in line for buses in the hot sun in mobs of people to guarantee seeing "the best of Italy."
Cutting all the way across Italy to San Gimignano and Siena in August would not be much choice. Have you any feeling for basing in Umbria, and ultimately dropping the car off in Orvieto and taking the train to Rome?
Umbria is one of the very simplest of places to drive in Italy. But even if you wanted to stick to trains and buses, you can make a go of it using Perugia or Spoleto as a base.
Perugia is a univeristy city that empties out during summer vacation. It has tremendous history and architectural interest, and one of Italy's finest art museums. Just make sure you avoid the jazz festival.
If you want something smaller, Spoleto would do the trick, and it has a train station that will take you to Perugia, Assisi and Orvieto, and buses to villages.
But a car would give you some freedom and you could stay someplace lovely -- a winery, a vegetarian retreat (St Francis loved animals), someplace near walking trails.
If have a very specific interest in particular sights in Siena and San Gimignano, then by all means go. But Italy is jammed up with interest everywhere you turn, some of it completely left out of guidebooks but no less eye-opening. You don't have to wait in line for buses in the hot sun in mobs of people to guarantee seeing "the best of Italy."
Jan 9th, 2012, 01:38 PM
#16
Original Poster
Zeppole,
Wow.
You are addressing some important issues.
We do rise early, eat a hearty and timely breakfast and are on our way quite early, so this is not an issue with us.
Hot weather is also not an issue. We live in South Carolina where it is HOT. As long as I choose air con in the room for sleeping, we’ll be fine.
As I’ve mentioned, the trip schedule was dictated by the opera (we chose the end of the arena season, fully aware of the crowds).
However, the closing down of sights is an issue. We’ll make note of it and plan our day around that. Thanks for letting me know. I haven’t started looking into the daily open hours schedules of various sites yet. I will.
As for eating, we usually eat a large meal early (mid-day), and eat very light in the evening. I hope the hours work for us.
We are trying very hard not to drive (stressful), but take public transportation. We usually travel this way. I think we can comfortably make it work for us here. But we may rethink a car for a day in Umbria.
Of course Italy demands many trips. This is our third and we’ve barely begun to see all that we want. Of course we will be back. I have future trip ideas for Puglia region, Naples area, northwest Milan and lakes. That’s three more trips at least.
Uhoh-busted (love the screen name) It is still a toss-up between staying in Perugia or Assisi. But if we want to stay in one town for two days and take a break from travel and day trips, we won’t need a car.
I’ve read your report and loved it. You covered a lot!
Wow.
You are addressing some important issues.
We do rise early, eat a hearty and timely breakfast and are on our way quite early, so this is not an issue with us.
Hot weather is also not an issue. We live in South Carolina where it is HOT. As long as I choose air con in the room for sleeping, we’ll be fine.
As I’ve mentioned, the trip schedule was dictated by the opera (we chose the end of the arena season, fully aware of the crowds).
However, the closing down of sights is an issue. We’ll make note of it and plan our day around that. Thanks for letting me know. I haven’t started looking into the daily open hours schedules of various sites yet. I will.
As for eating, we usually eat a large meal early (mid-day), and eat very light in the evening. I hope the hours work for us.
We are trying very hard not to drive (stressful), but take public transportation. We usually travel this way. I think we can comfortably make it work for us here. But we may rethink a car for a day in Umbria.
Of course Italy demands many trips. This is our third and we’ve barely begun to see all that we want. Of course we will be back. I have future trip ideas for Puglia region, Naples area, northwest Milan and lakes. That’s three more trips at least.
Uhoh-busted (love the screen name) It is still a toss-up between staying in Perugia or Assisi. But if we want to stay in one town for two days and take a break from travel and day trips, we won’t need a car.
I’ve read your report and loved it. You covered a lot!
Jan 9th, 2012, 11:50 PM
#17
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's funny, but I had been thinking of tacking on another PS warning you: "Think South Carolina in August!"
But if you can handle that kind of heat, then I agree it's not a problem, and since you've been to Italy before you must already have some experience of how rewarding you find it to cherry pick crowded 5* sights at some distance from each other, and spend a lot of travel time getting to them. I have done this in Italy and not regretted it.
There is someone else on Fodor's who based in Perugia for a week and used public transportation to visit quite a number of places. I'm sorry I cannot recall who it was, but the trip report this person wrote afterwards could be very helpful to you.
The national gallery of Umbrian art in Perugia is one of the best museums of Italian painting in all of Europe, and it is very enjoyably laid out with good labeling. It is extremely helpful to see this museum to understanding how Umbrian-trained artists fanned out all over Italy, including Assisi, Orvieto and Roma to create astonishing church interiors.
If you go to San Gimignano, I urge you to take time to go inside the churches, which have beautiful frescoes.
But if you can handle that kind of heat, then I agree it's not a problem, and since you've been to Italy before you must already have some experience of how rewarding you find it to cherry pick crowded 5* sights at some distance from each other, and spend a lot of travel time getting to them. I have done this in Italy and not regretted it.
There is someone else on Fodor's who based in Perugia for a week and used public transportation to visit quite a number of places. I'm sorry I cannot recall who it was, but the trip report this person wrote afterwards could be very helpful to you.
The national gallery of Umbrian art in Perugia is one of the best museums of Italian painting in all of Europe, and it is very enjoyably laid out with good labeling. It is extremely helpful to see this museum to understanding how Umbrian-trained artists fanned out all over Italy, including Assisi, Orvieto and Roma to create astonishing church interiors.
If you go to San Gimignano, I urge you to take time to go inside the churches, which have beautiful frescoes.
Jan 10th, 2012, 01:41 AM
#18
Original Poster
Ah yes. South Carolina in the summer. I keep telling people not to visit during those hot months, but they do and love it anyhow. I guess travelers (including me) are determined to go where they want, regardless of advice. I will handle the heat in Italy.
I'll try to look back again through other trip reports to find the one about using public transportation. I don't recall it though. Thanks.
I'm thinking that Assisi is where we'll stay in Umbria. It is two days only, and the town (according to the advice of other posters) is best before the daily crowds and after they depart. So it sounds lovely.
I was already planning of going into the churches in San Gimignano. Beats the heat among other reasons.
I'll try to look back again through other trip reports to find the one about using public transportation. I don't recall it though. Thanks.
I'm thinking that Assisi is where we'll stay in Umbria. It is two days only, and the town (according to the advice of other posters) is best before the daily crowds and after they depart. So it sounds lovely.
I was already planning of going into the churches in San Gimignano. Beats the heat among other reasons.
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
isabel
Europe
21
Jan 20th, 2015 05:13 PM
