als0107

We are planning a trip in December and I have found this thread very helpful.

With respect to reading, I would like to highly recommend John C. McManus' "The Americans at D-Day" and "The Americans at Normandy". Everyone in our group is reading them and finding them to be a fascinating overview of D-Day (the first book) and the Normandy campaign (the second book) from many different service perspectives (i.e., infantry, paratroopers, Navy, air force). Really well written. Each book is about 400 pages but read fairly quickly and would make excellent airplane reading.

lucy_d

bookmarking

hopingtotravel

Bookmarking also. I've read all the books by Ambrose, and Cornelius Ryan. I've seen 'Band of Brothers', 'Longest Day', 'Saving Private Ryan' and the Coast Guard footage shown by PBS, all at least twice.

I'm hoping that this, with other books I've read, will give me enough background for my own tour. My big concern as others have mentioned is that I may waste time by getting lost--so am planning to have a good map and the Michelin Green Guide.

Robespierre

A good map is Michelin 102 - <u>The Battle of Normandy</u>. It's a reprint of one of their regional maps with an overlay of D-Day history.

hopingtotravel

Robespiere, is the map 102 usable for any nearby areas? I.e., would it sub for buying any of the other maps? My local B&amp;Noble only carries the regional maps which I discovered on my last trip weren't good for much. So, anything I buy would be sight unseen.

Jean

Michelin Map No. 102 should not be substituted for a good current map of the area. The main roads probably have changed much, but #102 is a 60-year-old map.

bookchick

If the car has a cassette player, there is an audio cassette set you can use while driving, also:

http://www.oliviahill.com/html/audio_tours.html

Bonne Chance &amp; Bon Voyage,
BC

Sue4

I'm bookmarking this for the books to read, as I'm going to Normandy in May.
I think I'd like to do a self-guided tour, but may do a half-day guided tour, then go on my own some. I'll be in the Bayeux area for 4 days, but of course have other things I want to do besides the beaches.

By the way, for a great selection of maps, try www.languagequest.com. They seem to have every conceivable Michelin map, and you get your order in a couple of days. I'm really studying the maps, as I'll be driving around Normandy for 2 weeks (solo, no navigator!). I found it extremely helpful on other driving trips in France to be familiar with the maps and the names of towns on the routes. Not only helpful, but comforting! I have the new Normandie regional #513, which is too big and difficult to read. I much prefer the &quot;local&quot; 303, 304, etc. They are much easier to read, especially for &quot;older&quot; eyes.

Another question re the Caen Memorial museum. The most logical day for me to do that is my last day in the area, as it's a holiday when everything will be closed except that museum - and I'll probably be taking the train back to Paris from Caen. Will it be a mistake to see that museum after going to the beaches, instead of before? I have a feeling the answer is &quot;yes&quot;.

DiG

Hi Logan69:

Being very knowledgable of the history you both will do fine without visiting the Caen Peace Museum. Yes it is an excellent museum but it reguires a minimum of 3hrs time to appreciate it.

As you and your partner are historically versed, you may easily be pulled into all that the Caen Museum has to offer. It covers much more than WWII. How much time are you willing to devote in Caen and give up that time for the actual
beach areas?

When I originally planned to do a self guided tour my geography was east to west. It is the more logical order as that is the geographical order of the invasion. Yes, there are some events like the British commandos taking Pegasus Bridge coinciding with the American Airborne drops but the majority
of events occurred east to west.

My spouse and I are very knowledgable too. After more reading and intensive research with maps, we decided against a self-guided tour. Our reason was to get a more personal perspective of D-Day.

Our guide gave us insight and a deeper knowledge than we could imagine. He has such a deep passion for his work and spends endless hours researching any new information he stumbles onto.

He has an infinite wealth of true stories and factual information from the many veterans he has toured with and can explain the 'real' version from the hollywood version.

I see myself standing on the beaches of Utah and Omaha. Even though I knew the developments on the beaches, standing and seeing over 5 miles of coastline at Utah Beach, I was more than happy that I was with a guide.

The Airborne Museum in St. Mere Eglise and the Pegasus Museum are actually two of the best museums along with the Arromanches.

If you have 2 days and 2 nights, perhaps you could do an American guided tour on Day 1. On Day 2 you could do a self guided tour of the other sights on your list, especially some of the museums.

There is so much more to the cemeteries
for the allies and the axis. Hopefully, you will have the proper research before you visit them. Again, this is where a guide is insightful because of the personal stories.

Where you are both versed in the history a guide also would be a great resource for exchanging ideas and information. You could do Day 1 with a Private tour.

Another suggestion is to review your list of what is most important to you both, then compare it to the guided tours. You will see where the gaps are
in fulfilling you list.

We had to narrow ours down as there is a museum, memorial or statue of some type for everything that happened that day.

It's alot to think about.

Here is a list for September opening hours that may help you.

Caen Peace Museum: 9am-7pm.
Arromanches (harbor): 9am-6pm.
Arromanches 360 film: 1010am-540pm.
Airborne Museum at St Mere Eglise: 9am-645pm.
American Cemetery at Colleville: 9am-5pm
Ranger Monument at Pointe du Hoc: 10am-1pm/3pm-6pm.
Ranger Museum in Grandcamp-Maisy: Closed Mondays, Don't know the hours.
German Cemetery in La Cambe: 8am-7pm.
Pegasus Memorial Museum at Benouville:930am-630pm.
Omaha Beach at Vierville: 9am-7pm
Omaha Beach at St.Laurent-sur-Mer: 930am-630pm for midSeptember, 930am-7pm for early September.
Utah Beach Musuem: 930am-7pm.
Gold Beach Museum: 1030am-130pm/230pm-53opm; Closed Tuesdays.
Juno Beach Center: New museum mainly hands on exhibits. Don't know hours.
Sword Beach: Commando Museum in Ouistreham, 1030am-600pm; *Le Grand Bunker 9am-7pm, presents battle more from German point of view.

Best of luck with your plans, email me if you have any questions.

hopingtotravel

Jean, thanks. I'll get a detailed map (or Green Guide) for Normandy. My book gives highway numbers etc.
DiG, thanks for the info on hours although they may vary some by the time I make it there. For instance, I wouldn't have thought of Point de Hoc being closed for lunch.

clevelandbrown

We were there for more than two days, so had time to enjoy more sites. I think you will have to work on limiting what you hope to see.

We opted to do a self guided tour for a number or reasons. One is that most guided tours are offered by companies, so you may or may not get an impassioned guide. In doing my research I found a very few tours where you knew who the guide would be, and could find recommendations for that guide. Since I didn't use any, and some of them may be gone by now, I won't mention any names.

As an American, I was schooled to believe that the Americans had won the war. After I left school (I was not a history student) and did some research, I realized that we were a part of a larger force, so when I planned our tour, I had selected some sites that were not on the typical &quot;American&quot; tour. In fact, one of the reasons I didn't take the organized tours was that they seemed to be segregated by country. I didn't find a single company that offered a tour covering all the sites I wanted to see in a single tour. Of course, there are some who offer customized tours, which would solve that problem.

The main reason I opted against the organized tour was that I didn't want to be held to someone else's schedule. I wonder what the guides do when half their charges are knowledgeable, and half are not; it seems that someone is going to get shortchanged. I will admit that I carefuly reviewed the itineraries of many tour companies, and used that information in planning our tour.

I really liked the peace museum at Caen, but I don't think you could do it justice with only two days for your tour. I skipped the Bayeux tapestry; I've seen many tapestries, but none that I liked, and it seemed to me it would take quite a while to unravel the story in the tapestry, which is not related to the WWII invasion; we did visit the chateau in Caen (we stayed in Caen, so it was convenient), partly to see the ruins of the castle, but mostly because they had an interesting temporary exhibit in the art museum there. With only two days, I would skip the chateau, too.

I had looked forward to St. Mere Eglise because of the invasion activities that happened there, but when we got there, it was quite disappointing. They have a dummy hanging from a church, and too many tourist shops for my taste. In a word, it seemed tacky. All the other places we visited were impressive, and I'm certainly glad we were able to visit that area.

Incidentally, they make Calvados (an apple brandy) in Normandy, and it is quite good.

DiG

Hi clevelandbrown:

I like your screen name. I'm a 'patsfan' here in NewEngland.

Sorry to hear you didn't get to expereince St.Mere Eglise properly. That's is why we opted for a guided tour vs self tour.

Read my trip report dated May 7, 2006.
Without a guide we probably wouldh've had the same experience as you.

Did you go to the museum?

Battlebus tour philosophy is 'quality over quantity. All 3 guides are passionate about their work w/o the 'americanization' version. We learned about the Germans just as much as the allies.

Hopingtotravel: Times are from this past May but I'd suggest Logan69 confirm these as well. Good point!.

Sue_xx_yy

Posted by Bigal:

&quot;It is beyond me,Sue,how you can possibly give Omaha Beach and the US Cemetary a &quot;time permits priority&quot; with Utah as a viable option.

I have been to the beach area 4 times in visits and there is no comparison to Arromanches by any Utah Beach museum.The Arromanches museum is much much more than about the artificial harbor. By the way, the second artificial harbor was at Omaha Beach. I am surprised to hear there is such a museum at Utah beach.&quot;

*******

My apologies, Bigal, for taking so long to respond, but I forgot about this thread.

You are wise to be skeptical of reports from those who, by their own admission, have yet to visit the area.

However, there is, indeed, a museum at Utah beach. Below, I give the link to the page which details the second artificial harbour..... at UTAH beach. (It was destroyed, apparently, by storms, but the museum still gives details of how such harbours were constructed.)

http://tinyurl.com/yatzak

My research (of actual, published sources: I promise, I might place blind faith in Elvis reincarnations, but not military history) - indicates there was no artificial harbour at Omaha beach.

****Late Edit: I'm sorry, it seems we are both, respectively, wrong: you, for insisting that there was no artificial harbour at Utah (there was, codenamed 'Gooseberry' and me, for failing to determine that the code name &quot;Mulberry&quot; actually covered two harbours, one, Mulberry 'A' at Omaha, and one at Arromanches/Gold, Mulberry 'B'.

http://www.usmm.org/normandy.html

**end of late edit*****

As I have already indicated that I have yet to actually visit the area, my comments and suggestions must be taken in such context. However, I volunteered a suggestion on the basis of my experience, if not actual obsession, with logistics. Logistics, as we know, are a function of geography and physical location of sites, which information can aat least partly be determined from careful examination of maps, etc.

I also spoke on the basis of my familiarity with the struggle of trying to establish priorities when time is tight, yet there is so much of interest to see. Of course, since this decision is always subjective in the end, it is impossible to tell whether someone would be more interested in one versus another area, unless they give details.

Moreover, I spoke knowing that a two night stay, no matter where that stay occurs, means that one can reliably depend on having one full day only. Without knowing from whence the poster is coming to the area, or to where they are going afterward, it is impossible to determine how much time they actually will have on the second day. (I know, too well, how commuting and other problems have a way of eating into what otherwise look like almost full days.)

I am sorry if I led anyone to believe that I thought tapestry took a full day to see - that was not my intention, nor was it my conclusion from such research as I've done. However, the logistics of getting from, say, Saint Mere Eglise to Bayeux, park, head to tapestry, etc., would interrupt a day otherwise spent more profitably at the beaches, in terms of time expended.

I might debate passionately, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to criticism of my opinions and suggestions. I think , though, that it is more entertaining, and even more effective, if such criticisms are made in civil or at least humourous way (I'm quite aware of my shortcomings, and happy to share a laugh at them at my expense) because this is how we all learn.

Logan69, I hope it worked out for you (I presume you meant, Sept 2006, not Sept 2007, as the time of your visit.)

laverendrye

Let me add my bit on the artificial harbours, Gooseberries and Mulberries.

Gooseberries were artificial breakwaters created by scuttling ships (72 in all) and were built shortly after D-Day at all five beaches to facilitate landing supplies over the beaches.

Mulberries were actual harbours to be built at Omaha and Gold Beaches (Arromanches), by extending the Gooseberries by a number of means to provide jetties where ships could unload. The Omaha Beach one was destroyed in a violent storm on 19-20 June after having been in operation for just 72 hours leaving only the Arromanches one to operate.

Incidentally, there is no record of Blackberries being used in the communication plan.

Robespierre

Most of the mulberries that extended the gooseberries into harbors were concrete boxes that the Brits built and towed across the Channel to Normandy. These were augmented with landing platforms attached to floating metal causeways to the beaches. Deep-draft ships could unload trucks far from land and the trucks could be driven from there right to the front. The history of this remarkable piece of engineering can be seen at the Arromanches museum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_Harbour

Sue_xx_yy

&quot;there is no record of Blackberries being used in the communication plan&quot;

...ah, but when the Germans woke up to see the Allied armada approaching, bet more than one person on both sides blew Raspberries....

Thanks to both laverendrye and robes for the interesting info on the difference between 'the berries.'

Now, how to fit in all those berries (and more) when one has but a day or two...to the guided tours, I think!