Buzzy: I am against the war (without the UN's support). Nevertheless, you summed up my feelings about France. I am going in May to Nice for 5 days, then to Italy for 12 days. My husband is voicing his displeasure with the France portion of the trip....he would like to focus just on Italy. BUT this has always been my dream trip, and it is a FF ticket which was REALLY DIFFICULT to get! What to do, what to do..... Judy :-(

<BR>A little insight into the thinking of the French and Russians. <BR>Did you know France and Russie are owed $6 bliion and $8 billion, respectively, from arms deals made with SH during the Iraq-Iran war? Do you think the fact that they might not get paid by the regime that replaces SH has some effect on their voting at the League of Nations? <BR><BR>France, Russia and China also have oil deals made with SH worth tens of billions of dollars. You can read about it in today's Newsday (a far left rag that hates GWB, no less). <BR><BR>So this war is to some degree about money and oil -- and that explains France's position to a large degree.

&gt;Of course we do...you drink Coca Cola, &gt;wear Levis, watch American movies, &gt;listen to American music, drive Fords &gt;and love Pizza Hut, Burger King, &gt;McDonalds, visit Euro disneyland and &gt;that pales imitation of a &gt;beer..Budweiser is the fastest growing <BR>&gt;beer in Europe! (tongue in cheek here!)<BR><BR>Well, I can honestly say that I have done none of the above. My husband drinks &quot;real&quot; Budvar Budweiser. I myself sometimes buy the American version for the garden. I put it in my slug pubs. The slugs and snails love it.

DiAblo: Your observations on the French position are right on target. We have cancelled our trip to France this summer and will go to Great Britain instead. It is incomprehensible that a nation directly subjected to fascism and dictatorship (in various forms) so frequently over the past several centuries would take a position that aids a murderous dictator more than those trying to disarm him. We can only hope that the 6th Republic &quot;gets it&quot; better than the first five!<BR><BR>As for Beatle, the antiwar sentiment is certainly understandable. There is no doubt that we will lose some of our young countrymen, and there will be innocent Iraqi causalities. War is terrible, and hopefully still is avoided. There is also no doubt that over two million Iraqis have been killed by Sadaam, and today over two hundred thousand sit in concentration camps. Without intervention, Iraqi dissidents claim another million will lose their lives over the next decade. How much more &quot;containment&quot; can the free nations of the world endure? That’s before considering that a dictator with weapons of mass destruction and a history of invading his neighbors is in blatant violation of treaty obligations.<BR><BR>But what triggered me to register and respond (apologize for my smart ass screen name up front) is the complete lack of historical accuracy in defending the French that has been asserted as &quot;fact&quot;. The FACT is that the French has long demonstrated an amazing lack of courage and loyalty.<BR><BR>Beatle, let's get the facts straight on WW2. First, France fell to Germany with amazing speed - the Germans invaded on May 12 1940 and arrived in Paris on June 14 1940. France signed an armistice with the Axis on June 22, ending their direct defense to the Axis invaders. It is true that there were some brave resistance fighters, but to characterize the French as anything other that cowards is a stretch. Let's compare this to Russia, which bled Germany dry and lost over 26 MILLION citizens and soldiers fighting back the Nazi horde. The French lost a grand total of 580,000 during the entire war and occupation (including Vichy fighting for the Axis).<BR><BR>Once the US entered the war a then little known General named Dwight Eisenhower led a joint British and US invasion force to Morroco in November 1942 to attack the Axis underbelly. And who was waiting for the Allies? Germans? Italians? Morrocans? No. The Vichy French - more than 120,000 of them! Of course, in typical French fashion, they surrendered without firing a shot. With friends like these, who needs enemies?<BR><BR>To give credit to the French for victory Normandy (and claim over 200,000 French died there) is a gross injustice to the US, Canadian, and British that bravely lost their lives fighting to end Nazi occupation of the continent. Complete revisionist history bunk.<BR><BR>I realize that after the 60s it's not cool to be proud of the US and especially not our military. And it is cool to give everyone else (including a murderous dictator) the benefit of the doubt and assume our own government is the screwed up one.<BR><BR>Well, I'm proud of our stance as a force for good in the world. I'm ashamed (although not surprised) with the French stance that clearly makes the world a more dangerous place. If we allow the UN &quot;debating society&quot; to continue on forever without action we're destined to repeat the lessons of history (Cambodia and Rwanda are a couple of glaring examples).<BR><BR>I can't figure out what the French hope to accomplish with their stance, but I for one won't be spending any of my money there.<BR>

I get such a giggle about all the conservatives suddenly prescribing politically correct terminology and behavior, particularly our resident blowhard, Uncle_Sam.<BR><BR>Or I would if it weren't such a serious matter.

This just in, &quot;France's Chirac Says Willing to Accept 30-Day Deadline for Iraq to Disarm&quot;. Here's the link:<BR>http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&amp;cid...amp;cat=france

So don't go to France. And be sure to bocott a french fry. Most people of the world do not agree with you nor Bush.

Pax Americana<BR><BR><BR>One word added to your post....<BR><BR>AMEN!!!!!!!<BR><BR>US

And retired CIA agents are appealing to colleagues still working there to go public with evidence that the Bush administration is &quot;slanting intelligence to support its case for war with Iraq.&quot;<BR><BR>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...intelligence_4

jor,<BR><BR>Who cares what the rest of the world thinks!<BR><BR>The playerss that are going to make this happen are in place..US, UK, Spain, Italy, Australia and 46 other countries...we are hardly going it alone!<BR><BR>My suggestion...go hide and watch...and then if Bush and Blair were wrong...the voters will remove them from office!<BR><BR>US

Some additional information to consider for those who believe that there is no link between SH and terrorist threats to the U. S. Last week, Reuters reported:<BR><BR>* Families of Palestinians killed by Israel received $245,000 in checks from SH, underscoring his continued support for a Palestinian revolt. <BR><BR>* Leaders of a pro-Iraq Palestinian group handed out checks after delivering fiery speeches extolling SH’s virtues to hundreds of relatives of &quot;martyrs&quot; in Gaza City. <BR><BR>* Officials of the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front staging the ceremony said Saddam has now paid $35 million to support the kin of Palestinians killed in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in the last 29 months. <BR><BR>* Iraq and Palestine are in one trench. “Saddam is a hero,&quot; said a banner over a mural of Saddam and Yasser Arafat, who sided with Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War against the U.S. <BR><BR>* Palestinian suicide bomber families receive checks for $25,000 and 22 families of militants killed in fighting or of civilians killed during Israeli army offensives, incursions or air strikes got $10,000 each<BR><BR>Does anyone still really think that doing nothing to remove SH from power is the answer?<BR>

As we all know, Chirac's main interest is the &quot;economic welfare of France.&quot; In my humble opinion, I suggest we return the favor. <BR><BR>For those who are so inclined to a French boycott, besides wine, keep these companies in mind.<BR><BR>Air France<BR>Air Liquide<BR>Airbus<BR>Alcatel, based in Paris France<BR>Allegra (Allergy Medication) Aventis Pharmaceuticals<BR>Atos Origin, Inc. French consulting firm. 2nd largest in Europe<BR>AXA Advisors<BR>BIC (Razors, Pens &amp; Lighters)<BR>Biotherm (Cosmetics)<BR>Bollinger (Champagne)<BR>Chanel<BR>Christian Dior<BR>Club Med<BR>Dannon (Yogurt &amp; Dairy Foods)<BR>DKNY (LVMH acquired 100% of Gabrielle Studio, licenser of Donna Karan trademarks)<BR>Dom Perignon<BR>Evian<BR>Fina Oil ($Billions invested in Iraqi Oil fields)<BR>Givenchy<BR>Hennessy<BR>International Herald Tribune<BR>Jacobs Creek<BR>Lancome<BR>Le Creuset (Cookware)<BR>L'Oreal (Health &amp;Beauty Products)<BR>Louis Vuitton<BR>Marie Claire<BR>Maybelline<BR>M&eacute;phisto (Footwear &amp; Apparel)<BR>Michelin (Tires &amp; Auto Parts)<BR>Moet (Champagne)<BR>Mumms (Champagne)<BR>Perrier (Water)<BR>Peugeot (Automobiles)<BR>Pierre Cardin<BR>RCA (televisions &amp;electronics), owned by Thompson Electronics, France<BR>Renault (Automobiles--I use that word loosely)<BR>Sparkletts (Water) Owned by Danone, based in France<BR>Technicolor<BR>Universal Studios (Music, Movies &amp;Theme Parks) Owned by Vivendi-Universal, France<BR>Veritas Group<BR>Vittel<BR>Vivendi<BR>Yoplait<BR>Yves Saint Laurent <BR>

I am sure that uncle_sam would like us to go hide and watch, so he can get his precious war. sam has a problem. He wants everyone else to fight his war so he can go to Ireland this summer.

Pax Americana- I was responding to the idea of characterizing all French(or all people of any nation) as &quot;cowards&quot;- and how that was simply not accurate due to the several hundred thousand deaths at Normandy. I was in no way taking away any credit from the Allies. It is equally inaccurate when some of my friends on the far right only give credit to the US, and therefore that entitles us to a blank check in all matters of Foreign policy. Let's not forget the British, Canadians etc as you mentioned. Of course the US played the major role, but it would have been tough without support from our other Allies. <BR>As far as the 60's, I think it was &quot;cool&quot; that the growing anti war sentiment in this nation helped to get us out of Vietnam and perhaps save Am GI lives. Too bad it didn't take hold earlier. <BR> Pax, even though we both agree that SH must go, we have an honest diff. of opinion on how to do it. I can understand how you may not be willing to wait any longer. <BR>One last quesion, I haven't seen much mention of Rumsfeld's name on any Posts. Do you consider him to be a positive force for Am. foreign policy? Just curious.

jur,<BR><BR>I am offended by your comment that I want war! I am certain that there are some that do, but most of the people I know do not want war.<BR><BR>However, Leniin was right when he said that American liberals were useful fools!<BR><BR>There comes a time when &quot;giving peace a chance &quot; won't get it done. SH uses &quot;useful fools&quot; to further his cause and extend his regime that has MURDERED 2,000,000 PEOPLE..where is your outage?<BR><BR>He has gassed his own people, he tortures them and yet people like you can only blame Bush!<BR><BR>Hopefully you are not one of those useful fools...but given the comments that you just made regarding my vacation to Ireland and other comnets <BR><BR>I've read, perhaps you are...perhaps not, you may just be confused!<BR><BR>US<BR><BR>US

&quot;As far as the 60's, I think it was &quot;cool&quot; that the growing anti war sentiment in this nation helped to get us out of Vietnam and perhaps save Am GI lives. Too bad it didn't take hold earlier. &quot;<BR><BR>Do you also think that is was cool that as a result of our leaving....Pol Phot was then able to kill 2,000,000 people!<BR><BR>Selective memory works wonders, doesn't it!<BR><BR>OTOH, being a liberal often means never having to say you're sorry!<BR><BR>US

It took a conservative to pull us out of Viet Nam, it took a conservative to end the cold war, and it will be a conservative that brings down Saddam Hussein.

So many excellent posts from well informed, pro- American people. I hope this post stays around for awhile. Thanks to all.<BR><BR>(k-mozat has Wagner's Tannhauser on right now... got to give it my full attention)

Based upon th eultimatum given in the Azores...it looks like that after 12 years of lying, deceit, murder, torture and support for terrorism...looks like Mr Hussein has a choice to make...live or die!<BR><BR>Interesting that he never gave that choice to the 2,00,000 he killed or had killed!<BR><BR><BR>US<BR>

Re: &quot;it took a conservative to end the cold war,&quot;<BR><BR>Huh? You're saying that Dubya's dad -- or Reagan -- &quot;ended&quot; the Cold War? <BR><BR>I'd argue that Mikhail Gorbachev had far more to do with that than any conservative Republican U.S. president. <BR><BR>. . . <BR><BR>Lesli, thanks for the link to that article about retired CIA agents and their contention that the Bush administration is &quot;slanting intelligence to support its case for war with Iraq.&quot; <BR><BR>. . .<BR><BR>Tom Friedman has an excellent column, as usual, in today's New York Times, on the difference between Bush and Tony Blair, saying that &quot;Mr. Blair has an international vision that Mr. Bush sorely needs.&quot; Amen to that. <BR><BR>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/16/opinion/16FRIE.html

P.S. From Maureen Dowd's column in today's NY Times...<BR><BR>&quot;The Los Angeles Times reported on Friday that a classified State Department report debunks the hawks' domino theory and expresses doubt that installing a new regime in Iraq will foster democracy. <BR><BR>And Don Van Natta Jr. of The New York Times reveals that Al Qaeda is using rising anger among young Muslims about the plan to overthrow Saddam to recruit and groom a new generation of terrorists.&quot;<BR><BR>Fasten your seat belts. <BR><BR>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/16/opinion/16DOWD.html<BR><BR>

&quot;I'd argue that Mikhail Gorbachev had far more to do with that than any conservative Republican U.S. president. &quot;<BR><BR>Capo,<BR><BR>Well of course you would but you'd be WRONG!<BR><BR>Gorby himself said that the end was brought about because of SDI (Star Wars to you liberals) and the fact that Reagan wouldn't back down and Gorby knew he couldn't keep up!<BR><BR>And it began to end when Thatcher and Reagn, despite all the whining of the socialist peaceniks, (kind of like now!) decided to put cruise missiles in Western Europe!<BR><BR>REMEMBER Capo (hopefully youu can since many of you liberals have selective amnesia)it wasn't Gorby that said, &quot;Mr Gorbachev if you value freedom tear down this wall.&quot;<BR><BR>Man it still mists my eyes to know Reagan said that and almost 1 billion people were eventually freed!<BR><BR>US<BR><BR>

capo,<BR><BR>NY Times and LA times, I'm amazed that you used such unbiased sources (LOL)...what happened was Molly Ivins too busy!<BR><BR>Also, what you failed to mention is that the ex CIA agent quoted hasn't been afilliated with that agency for 10 years...c'mon capo you're better than that!<BR><BR>US

Though no fan of Reagan's, I'll concede that, in his greatest role, that of U.S. president, his &quot;Mr Gorbachev if you value freedom tear down this wall.&quot; was one of his best lines ever. <BR>

&quot;New York Times reveals that Al Qaeda is using rising anger among young Muslims about the plan to overthrow Saddam to recruit and groom a new generation of terrorists.&quot;<BR><BR>Capo: Did you see VP Dick Cheney today on Meet the Press? He answered the question of whether war would just cause more terrorist attacks especially in the U. S.. Cheney responded that we did nothing to provoke the September 11 attack, the U.S.S. Cole attack, U.S. Embassy in Africa attack or the 1993 WTC bombing. Yet, WE were attacked anyway. <BR><BR>Isn't it time we finally take action? Or do we just sit and wait until &quot;the rest of the world&quot; decides we are justified in defending us and the world against a ruthless dictator.<BR><BR>If you want to at least balance the liberal slant with another point of view, take a look at how we got where we are today &quot;Bracing for the Apocalypse&quot;:<BR><BR>http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20030213.shtml<BR>

Thanks Lorac...great article, great website.

Lorac, just because Cheney -- or you, or any others -- feel that a nearly-unilateral U.S. attack on Iraq *should* not provoke further Al-Qaeda terrorism, doesn't mean that it won't. <BR><BR>I'm not saying the risk of &quot;blowback&quot; doesn't mean a nation like the U.S. should not take some action. Just that we should be aware that the risk of future terrorism may actually increase, not decrease, because of such action. <BR><BR>Thanks for the link to Krauthammer's column. I don't always agree with him, but I read his columns when I can. From reading his column, you'd think he was completely oblivious to the fact that M.A.D. (mutally assured destruction) &quot;worked&quot; for both the Soviet Union (who Reagan once famously called the &quot;evil empire&quot;) and the U.S., that nations, or leaders, with at least a shred of rationality and self-preservation will not choose to unleash weapons of mass destruction on another nation, like the U.S. that not only possesses them but has demonstrated -- in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- that it will use them. <BR><BR>

Capo,<BR><BR>Yes we used them and saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of American military lives and the lives of untold civilians in Japan as we avoided an invasion.<BR><BR>And if need be we should use them again!<BR><BR>US

You can't save the lives of people that you don't know were going to die. That is rationalization, which in itself is not bad, but we don't KNOW that they would have died, something else might have happened. Only charlatons pretend to know the future.

Why do Americans hate us( the French) so much ?<BR>Because they are jealous of our good lifestyle and free-thinking. <BR><BR>It is always funny when those of those brainwashed right-wing morons boast about first amendment and freedom of speech and democracy. <BR>But they don't accept another opinion and they try to bully, bribe or punish those who beg to differ. <BR>What a bunch of hypocrites.<BR><BR>But you're right to be angry. 911 was like a collective rape of America and the whole world saw this humiliation on TV again and again and will not forget this moment. And you know it and we know it.<BR><BR>I'm quite cetain Fordors will exercise its very selective right to delete this message but not the pseudo-political crap of hate-filled pro-war and pro-Bush posters/<BR>So predictable american &quot;democracy&quot; and &quot;freedom&quot; at work. Here and elsewhere...

If I can resist the &quot;bait&quot; placed by this &quot;tomato&quot;...so can everyone else!<BR><BR>US

No one has the answers, NO ONE. Put a face on every woman, and child, and every old person, when you think of starting this war. And Uncle_Sam, don't be so nasty to posters with opposite views from you, it's so unAmerican.<BR>And if you slam that door again on my butt, you are in for more than you bargained for.(she says, making her voodoo doll:)...)

'Put a face on every woman, and child, and every old person, when you think of starting this war.&quot;<BR><BR>cigale,<BR><BR>how long do you think it wil take you to do just that to the 2,000,000 that this madman has killed and is killing daily!<BR><BR>US

Capo: &quot;just because Cheney -- or you, or any others -- feel that a nearly-unilateral U.S. attack on Iraq *should* not provoke further Al-Qaeda terrorism, doesn't mean that it won't.&quot;<BR><BR>Apparently, I did not make myself clear enough. What he meant was that by doing NOTHING for the last ten years, the U.S. and its citizens were attacked and many were killed ANYWAY. <BR><BR>Apparently, the quiet diplomatic approach doesn't exactly work with lunatics as we have seen through 17-- going on--18 U.N. resolutions. So ALL terrorist organizations and their supporters and sugar daddies must be crippled and brought down... In reality, all the U. S. is doing is enforcing the U. N.'s on resolution.<BR> <BR>Uncle Same is absolutely correct when he says that Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved thousands of lives by ending the war. Aren't we supposed to learn from history so as to not let history repeat itself?

Moonbeam, I resent your statements. When people say such ridiculous things as you just did, it definitely ruins their credibility as far as I am concerned.

moonbeam,<BR><BR>if it were the number killed by sanctions...then you can lay that blame right at the feet of the man that caused the sanctions..... Saddam Hussein!<BR><BR>He hid billions and spent billions on palaces while lefties like you complained of sanctions!<BR><BR>Wonder how much food and medicine he COULD have bought for hsi peopel had he chose to do so?<BR><BR>You defend him moonbeam...that's a mightty weak position to take, but I'm sure you will!<BR><BR>US

Moonbeam: That comment was nasty, nasty, nasty. Let's try to be civil.<BR><BR>No one on this forum is on trial and nothing we say here will impact world events in the least.<BR><BR>SH and Al-Quaida are the culprits we should focus our anger on...not each other. <BR><BR>Just debate your point and stop the name calling.

I'm just an average American. I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative, so please don't try to pin any labels on me. I don't like the idea of a war in Iraq because I know what war means. I served my time in the late 60s. I feel very deep concern for the American (and British) men and women who will be fighting this war. I also feel for the innocent Iraqis who are going to get caught up in the war. <BR><BR>However, I do not think there is any other choice now but war. I think that what the French government has been doing concerning Saddam is wrong, and has only made the problem worse. I believe that if the UN had presented a united position on Iraq, there might have been a chance that Iraq would have disarmed peacefully. Sadly, I believe that chance is now completely gone, and Saddam has only been emboldened. Since there is no longer a chance for a peaceful disarmament, it needs to be done forcefully. I say that because I absolutely believe that it is the right thing to eliminate Saddam, his government, and the weapons he controls, and war is now the only way to do it.<BR><BR>Notwithstanding what I believe, I have absolutely no negative feelings for the French people any more than I do for the anti-war protesters in this country. The freedom to disagree openly is one of the greatest freedoms we have. Instead of attacking each other for having different opinions, we should treasure that we have the right to do so.

I'm not me: Even though I don't agree with war now, it was indeed a privilege to read such a well written post. I respect your opinion and the eloquent manner in which you presented it.

Sam -<BR><BR>&quot;Also, what you failed to mention is that the ex CIA agent quoted hasn't been afilliated with that agency for 10 years....&quot;<BR><BR>I'm not sure I see why that's relevant, but we did say &quot;retired/former&quot; CIA agent. The article clearly states that Ray McGovern is a &quot;27-year CIA veteran who briefed top REAGAN administration security officials before retiring in 1990.&quot; He is part of a group of mostly retired CIA agents who are questioning the current administration. I imagine they left the agency at various times, but they are in contact with current agents re this issue.<BR><BR>And who was president 10 years ago? Ah yes, George Bush.