travel52

Just when you think it is all set…poof, there is a catch. My itinerary is listed below. I posted it and got the experts okay, but then I got a response that says the train ride from CT to Lyon can be from 7-10 hours so now I am rethinking this plan. Does anyone see a way of changing this itinerary to allow us to fly into/close to Lyon without backtracking, and transfers that would end up taking more time? Perhaps we get rid of the extra night in Lucca and make a stop between CT and Lyon to break up the trip and see a new place? OR perhaps we take the night in Lucca and stay there after the CT, see Pisa and then fly out from there? Comments? Be kind, I'm spinning

Fly Seattle - Milan
1 night in Milan taking train to Veranna the next day
3 nights in Veranna:: Hotel du Lac
train back to Milan to meet friends who are flying in and will continue trip with them
1 night in Milan:
train to Florence the next day
3 nights Florence: Hotel Casci
Pick up car in Florence and drive to Assisi
3 nights: Malvarina
3 nights: San Quirco: Palazzo del Capitano
visit Pienza, Bagno Vignoni and Sant'Antimo Abbey
1 night Lucca: Hotel outside the walls. Any ideas?
After checking into hotel to drop off luggage, drive to Pisa for a couple of hours, back to Lucca to drop off car and spend the night.
Train to CT:
3 nights in Monterosso al Mare: La Spiaggia
Train to Lyon, France
4 nights: Lyon (at a friend’s home)
Train to Paris
3 nights in Paris: Hotel Muguet
Home

zeppole

Well, sure. Fly into Paris and then go to Lyon. See your friends. Either fly to Milan from there to meet your friends, or take the train.

After you go to the CT, go to Varenna, Fly home out of Milan.

zeppole

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/sp...rtesia_day.htm

What time are your friends arriving in Milano and what is the plan for meeting them? Were you going to meet them at the airport or meet them at a Milan hotel?

travel52

The friends in Lyon are actually friends of our friends, so that won't work. We already have our flight reservations into Milan, but have not made the return reservations. So, we need to rework this within Italy, with Lyon and Paris our last stops.

zeppole

It makes sense to forego the night in Lucca and instead keep your car, even though that means paying hefty parking fees to park it in CT when you are not using it.

After CT, I would drive the car to someplace in Piemonte, have a great meal, then drop off the car in Torino and take the train to Lyon.

However, you might ask your friends in Lyon how they would go to CT. It may be that faster train connections are to be had by going through Nice (in which case you can drive to San Remo, drop off the car and take trains from there.)

May I ask what you are most looking for from your trip to Cinque Terre? Are you all hikers? Three nights is a long time to spend there if you are not, and I would suggest cutting the time, or even spending it in Camogli if you just want to relax by the sea, or perhaps move a bit closer to Tuscany (in someplace like Portovenere or Lerici) where you could daytrip to Lucca and the CT.

How do you feel about keeping your car?

citrouille

I would definitely rethink that itinerary too. 3 days here, and 3 days there for over a week would make me want to go on vacation from vacation.

That is a lot of packing and unpacking, and lugging the luggage around. Sorry I'm not a big help.

travel52

The 3 days don't bother me, as most of the places are close enough so that we're not spending an entire day traveling. We've done the "3 days here and there" and although, we'd love to stay longer, $$$ do no permit that.

It is more the order of the itinerary I am rethinking now that I know how long the train trip is from CT to Lyon.

Experts?

zeppole

"Perhaps we get rid of the extra night in Lucca and make a stop between CT and Lyon to break up the trip and see a new place?"

OK. If you're doing this all by train at that point, the logical choice is Torino, where the food is great and you can pick a museum you all like, or split up. My choice would be the fantastic cinema museum.

"OR perhaps we take the night in Lucca and stay there after the CT, see Pisa and then fly out from there?"

Fly out to where? Lyon? I don't think there is flight from Pisa to Lyon. I think you have to fly out of Milan or Torino.

greg

Are you flying into Milan so late that you cannot travel directly to Varenna on the arrival day?

This frees up one day to add an intermediate stop between CT and Lyon.

travel52

We are flying into Milan on June 13th and our friends will arrive the 17th. The "saved day" needs to be after our friends meet up with us. The only day I can see giving up is the extra night in Lucca I put in.

I don't even see a flight into Lyon, if that is what we figured out.

It just seems like there is an easy solution that I'm not seeing. It's a Rubik's cube that just needs one final twist !

Bob? Ira? You are good puzzle solvers !! Jump on in !

zeppole

"The only day I can see giving up is the extra night in Lucca I put in."

So give it up! Your original interest in going there was having someplace to perch because of car rental issues, and you're not leaving yourself much time to see it or Pisa.

Without knowing everybody's interests and what they want out of the trip, or the pace they want to keep, or how much they want to move around, it's hard to tell what to change.

What are the priorities? Obviously making sure you meet your traveling friends in Milano is one priority. What time of day are they arriving? Can you proceed straight to Assisi?

The other priority is making sure you get to France to visit your Lyonnaise friends. Is visiting Paris a must?

Beyond that, we've little idea why you picked Assisi over Parma, or Le Cinque Terre over Eze (in France).

bobthenavigator

I too would break up the long train trip but would consider Menton on the coast---a charming coastal town with fabulous flowers. Then, take the TGV from Nice to Lyon. You need to look at the best train routes first.

travel52

Thanks Bob. Menton looks lovely. I'll take all of this information and sit down with our friends and try to come up with an itinerary that is the best time/money and ease wise that everyone is happy with. It's a very easy group to please.

zeppole

You're welcome!

zeppole

One more thing:

If you rent your car in Italy and drop it off in France, you are going to pay an enormous drop off fee, if you're allowed to do it all.

I still recommend driving into Piemonte for your overnight, and picking up your train in Torino. There are marvelous sights in Torino itself, and nice towns nearby if you don't want to overnight in a big city.

zeppole

Ooops. I forgot. You might decide to give up your car in La Spezia or thereabouts.

lovisa

I think it would be helpful if you plotted out your itinerary with the days of the week included.

If I read correctly, you plan to pick up your car in Florence on Jun 21, a Sunday. This is possible, but certainly limits pick-up points.

Right now you plan to drop off your car in Lucca on the 27th, a Saturday. You will be hard pressed to find a car rental place in Lucca open on Saturday after about 1:00 p.m. Unless you drop your car off at Pisa Airport, I suspect you will not have a lot of choices where you can leave your car on a Saturday afternoon.

I agree with Greg, why not go directly to Varenna on your arrival day?(from the US west coast, you are likely to arrive early in the morning); or at the very least take the train from Malpensa to Como (change in Saronno), spend the night in Como, and take a boat the next day to Varenna.

I agree with everyone who says to skip Lucca for one night, and go on to your Italian Riviera destination by train.

I personally am not a big fan of the Cinque Terre because it feels pretty overrun and a little scruffy. I prefer Camogli, Santa Margherita Ligure, Levanto, or Sestri Levante to the CT towns, and from any of them you can still take the trains to the CT for hikes.

If move up your Italian Riviera stay one night, you can use your "Lucca" night somewhere enroute to Lyon. In terms on travel times, I find the following:

Monterosso - Nice Ville about 5 hours; Nice Ville to Lyon 4:20 on TGV
There are a lot of train choices for these connections, assuming you spend the night in Nice;

Monterosso - Torino 3:40 - 4:00 hours - lots of trains.
Torino - Lyon 3:50 - 4:40 hours -
Limited trains Torino to Lyon.
Right now Trentitalia, shows trains at 8a.m., 9 a.m., then none until 17:35.
Also be aware Torino has several rail stations and you may need to transit from your arrival station to a different one to depart Lyon.
Spend the night in Torino.

zeppole

Lovisa,

If you follow all the posts, you'll see that Travel52's need to save time comes several days into his trip, when he hooks up with friends in Milano AFTER visiting Varenna.

Why rush to Varenna if you don't need to?

By the way, can you take the train from Como to Saronno and from there catch a train to Cadorna in Milano? How long does the ride take, if so?

lovisa

To train from Como Lago to Milano Cadorno takes 63 minutes. Schedule is here:
http://www.fnmgroup.it/website/lenord/en/home/index.php

I suggested poster skip Milan the first night simply because I would rather spend the time in Como or Varenna and it will probably cost less.