Research Trip to Ireland and Scotland

Old Aug 12th, 2007, 05:35 PM
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Research Trip to Ireland and Scotland

Hello, I could really use some help. I am in graduate school and want to do some research in Ireland and Scotland for my thesis on Celtic Spirituality. I am going to fly into Dublin on Sept 7, but I have a timeshare (finally got one after I made the plane reservations!) in Scotland - AND I have to check in on the 8th.

I was originally going to stay the first night in Dublin and then rent a car and go to Scotland for about 4 days and then come back to Ireland, but now I am not sure I can take a car from Ireland to Scotland???

There is so much to see and do, and I only have 10 days. Can someone provide some advice? I want to see as many of the sacred sites as possible (in both countries) and I thought a car rental would be the best way to be free to do as I please. So, can I rent a car in Ireland and then take it on the ferry to Scotland? If not, can I catch a train from Dublin airport to Belfast and get to the ferry from the train station? I could then take the train to a location in Scotland and rent a car there.

I have looked at the recommendations for Paddywagon Tours, etc., but I don’t have time to go to Blarney Castle and some of the other sites – not if I want to go to as many sites (Newgrange, Clonmacnoise, Skellig Michael, etc - not to mention places in Northern Ireland -as I can for my thesis.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks so much for the help.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 06:28 PM
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If I'm reading this correctly you will be in Dublin for only one day. There is absolutely no need to rent a car in Dublin (in fact it would be useless). And yes - you would likely have trouble getting permission to leave the country with it. Or - if you're trying to see Newgrange from there you could rent for the day - or take a tour (we did as a half day tour from Dublin).

Where in Scotland is the timeshare - and how did you plan on getting there? I would suggest flying to avoid wasting time - when you have so little. (There are low-cost flights to Edinburgh.)

But - have you mapped out the sites you want to see versus the location of the timeshare - allowing for cross-country travel?

Also - when you return to Ireland - have you mapped out the locations of the various sites you want to see? Are they close enough together that you can stay in one place - or will you have to move around (another car rental)?

I think you really need to get some good detailed maps and info on the exact locations and opening days and hours of the sights you want to see - or you could end up with a largely wasted trip.

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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 06:31 PM
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You left out the MOST important piece of info. Where is teh timeshare -- there are a LOT of them in Scotland.

The location will then be the main factor on HOW you should get to Sotland from Dublin.

So . . . where is it?
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 06:32 PM
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Also - not sure what you mean by research.

Newgrange, for instance, is a tourist sight and access is strictly regulated to groups lead by a guide. If you're thinking that you can do a lot of free style wandering around and exploring - I think at many of these places you would need to get approval in advance from the governing bodies based on your academic credentials.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 06:47 PM
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Ok, the timeshare is close to Perth. I know I can take a train from the ferry to Perth and then rent a car to the timeshare.

I didn't want to rent the car for one day in Dublin, but I was thinking that I would only stay in Scotland for 4 days and then come back to Ireland and rent a car then as well. Yeh, I know - that's 2 car rentals...

So, we could not go to Newgrange and take a tour from the information (or historical) center? Do we need to take a day tour to go? Because I also want to go to Trim castle and the Hill of Tara - they are close, right?

The only reason I thought about car rental is so that we don't have to haul suitcases around and because it is going to be such a whirlwind trip. I am in the process now of mapping out everything so that I can maximize our time. (I have a friend going who doesn't care where we go, she is along for the adventure!). But I really want to make sure I see the most important sites that I can given the small amount of time I have.

Thanks for the help,

Kim
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 07:17 PM
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First of all if your theme is "Celtic Spirtuality", Newgrange is not a Celtic site. It far pre-dates the Celts in Ireland. For that matter neither is Trim Castle. It is an Anglo-Norman castle. You need more study on what is Celtic especially if you are doing a thesis on it. Find out what Celtic actually means before going off half-cocked on your adventures.

I think you need to get moving on an itinerary right away. Focus on "Celtic" sites and plan like crazy for your September trip. You do not have all that much time. Planning now will optimize your very short time in Scotland and Ireland.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 07:32 PM
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First, thanks for the "insight." I realize Trim is not a Celtic site, it is something an old boyfriend who grew up in Ireland loves and I have always wanted to see. The same with Newgrange. I wasn't aware that I needed to be more specific - I apologize.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to recommend "Celtic" sites, so I don't waste my time seeing any other wonderful things Ireland may have to offer. (Although I take it, you had no opposition to the Hill of Tara??)

Please remember, I have a list of places that I have gotten from books. I wouldn't be asking for help if I had been to Ireland previously.

I think this has strayed from my original question about how to get from Dublin airport to the ferry anyway...
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 07:53 PM
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Why do you want to get to the ferry? Even if you could rent a car in Ireland and be able to take it to Scotland, it would cost a fortune to take it over and it would waste too much of your time.

Why don't you do a tour your first day in Ireland or rent a car just for the day.
Then fly to Edinburgh right from Dublin if possible. The train /ferry thing is too time consuming.
Then rent a car at the Edinburgh airport for the four days, return it to the airport and fly back to Dublin to rent another car if need be.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 08:41 PM
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Which timeshare resort -- perhaps Moness, or maybe Kenmare?? And isn't your trade for a week? Why back to Ireland after 4 days?

ferries make ABSOLUTELY NO sense for you. Fly into either Edinburgh or Glasgow (not Glasgow-Prestwick)and rent your car from the airport.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 08:46 PM
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Thanks Kodi, that is what I will do. Truthfully, I feel like a moron because I didn't consider flying over there (mostly because I figured it would cost a fortune and it may, I haven't checked yet). I just never thought about how difficult it would be to get a car to Scotland and it freaked me out!
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 08:52 PM
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Flying will almost certainly be cheaper than a passenger ferry plus trains (and a fraction of the cost of taking a car on the ferry)
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 10:19 PM
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If time is tight, you seem to be wasting an awful lot of it in travel.

Neither Scotland nor Ireland are terribly easy to get round quickly. Unless there are more Celtic sites within a few miles of Dublin and near Perth than I've ever heard of, you're going to have a great deal of driving to do, and very little time to do it in.

It's unlikely you'll have time on your first leg in Dublin to do anything directly useful, and you CANNOT do serious driving in a left-hand country straight after an overnight flight. Offhand, I'd have thought it made more sense to fly straight to Scotland and spend an extra night there. Then, on the return day to Ireland - suitably de-jetlagged - get the earliest possible flight to Dublin (or wherever in Ireland is most suitable for your itinerary), collect a car and go straight to the first site on your agenda.

Bear in mind that there's a much wider choice of airports in Ireland to fly to from Scotland than Dublin, that more of them are accessible from Glasgow than Edinburgh, and that an extra 50 miles road journey is almost always a lot quicker in Scotland than in Ireland.

But I strongly suggest you post your planned itinerary here and get feedback on whether there's a more time-efficuent way of achieving it.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 11:04 PM
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KimGrad, Well you did specify "Celtic" and you only have a very short time. There are plenty of other wonderful things to see and you can easily get distracted from your goal.

---------------------------------------

"I want to go to as many sites (Newgrange, Clonmacnoise, Skellig Michael, etc - not to mention places in Northern Ireland -as I can for my thesis."

---------------------------------------

I think it will be a very interesting thesis as not one of the above sites you mentioned is Celtic either. It is a good excuse to go to Ireland and Scotland though.
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Old Aug 12th, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Kim

It really does matetr where you're staing. Since you say, near Perth, I'm going to assume Moness, then advise you to fly Ryanair to Edinburgh and hire a car there. If you are focussing on Celtic sites, you'll be spending a lot of time driving back and forth to the west coast, since that's where most of the Celtic stuff is.

Most east coast stuff is Pictish and older, and defintely pre-Celtic.

I would suggest you put the National Museum of Scotland on your list of places to visit.
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Old Aug 13th, 2007, 12:17 AM
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Before you start your research, you should read "The Celtic fallacy" by
Bob Trubshaw
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Old Aug 13th, 2007, 02:43 AM
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Kim, others can help you, but I undersstand there are budget airlines in Ireland and Scotland.. perhaps Ryan is one of them...and EasyJet. But I'm really not sure on these, so check it out.

ANd yes, try and post an itinerary and others can help come up with the best plan.
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Old Aug 13th, 2007, 03:29 AM
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Both Ryanair & Aer Lingus fly between Dublin and Edinburgh & cheap fares can be had on both *if* you book early. However, even though it's very late now, it's still not too bad - I've had an experimental go and you could get a return fare on Ryanair (8th-15th) for €65 (if you don't mind travelling early or late), or on Aer Lingus for €139 (other dates cheaper). www.ryanair.com, www.aerlingus.com. Both airlines also fly between Dublin and Glasgow (this route is currently even cheaper on Ryanair); plus, as others have mentioned, there are flights to Scotland from other Irish airports like Cork and Knock.

Book asap before the fares go up !!

Still not clear about your dates, though - won't you stay at the timeshare for a week ?
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Old Aug 13th, 2007, 08:48 AM
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Wow! I really would have been more specific had I known the response I would be receiving - thank you all.

First, let me clarify. The name of my paper is "Celtic Spirituality, Then and Now: Separating Myth From Fact." I am trying to find out how much of the Celtic spiritual myths are true (as much as possible due to little evidence) and how much people buy into now. By people, I mean other than those in the US who are enamored with the whole Celtic thing.

Some of the sites I named are being passed off as Celtic (even Newgrange as evidenced by some of the travel tours). But remember, for academic purposes, St. Patrick, St. Columba and St. Kevin are considered in Celtic studies. I am interested in how the early Catholic missionaries combined pagan spirituality with Catholicism. As I said previously, my ex-boyfriend grew up in Ireland and told me that the Irish still believe in fairies. This true???

Thanks for the head’s up about “The Celtic Fallacy.” I found it on-line and look forward to reading it.

Now, as far as the timeshare goes…we didn’t get it until the airline reservations were made, but when it came up, we grabbed it. I mean it’s only $200 to stay there and I don’t have to stay the week; in fact had no intention of that. But it IS cheaper to stay for 4 nights than pay for a B&B. Also, I had no idea that it would be so much trouble to take a car over on a ferry; I have done it several times in this country and it was no problem. Thanks for letting me know.

Someone said that Northern Ireland didn’t count, but the ecclesiastical center of Ireland is reportedly in Armagh – and I think worth a visit. I want to see the Book of Kells and the high crosses as well.

Anyway, I just got a lead for an introduction to an Irish professor who is a Cultural Anthropologist. If he cannot help, I don’t know who can. When you look at the travel tours on-line, the websites always talk about how they have people who talk with you on the journey about things Celtic and mystical. Does anyone know about that stuff – is it garbage and a lot of hype???

Bottom line, maybe the sites aren’t as important as talking with the people? My university gave me a grant to go and take this trip, so I need to find out some info. I also read that Wales has a degree program in Celtic Spirituality, so there must be something to find…

I read this about Skellig Michael: “An Irish Celtic monastery, which is situated almost at the summit of the 230-metre-high rock, was built in 588,….” But you are saying that is not a Celtic site, so what am I to think now?

If you know of places to visit, please enlighten me, I am from Texas for crying out loud!!
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Old Aug 13th, 2007, 09:16 AM
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I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Welsh, don't forget the cornish, Manx and Breton's from France are also Celts.
You seem to have alreday decided on Ireland and scotland due to tye time share option, don't blame you for that. Therefore these few websites might be worth reading.
http://www.lamp.ac.uk/celtic/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/celts/whereinwales/
http://www.ibiblio.org/gaelic/celts.html
http://www.data-wales.co.uk/celt.htm


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Old Aug 13th, 2007, 09:43 AM
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Kim,

I applaud your thesis topic and wish you much success. I think you might find this link, http://www.faculty.de.gcsu.edu/~dves...c/celtic.shtml, to be of some interest, if you've not already found it.

T'were it that you lived closer in to Arizona, I have a friend who has written a book on the same subject whom you would find interesting.

You certainly don't have much time for your research on the ground in either place. I would have thought hey would have given you enough time, two-three weeks, to allow for a more comprhensive thesis research period.

Have you thought to contact Trinity College and the University in Edinburgh, perhaps there might be someone on faculty with whom you could meet? You really have a far too short time frame to do preliminary research. That means maximizing your contacts whilst there. I know in Scotland, Dunadd, in the Kilmartin Valley, is of major importance. In fact the Kilmartin Valley might be worth your time, http://www.philipcoppens.com/kilmartin.html.

As for a site being Pictish, Bronze age, etc, the Celts were not just one race or ethnic group. They were a group of tribes that had similar languages, cultures and religions. The Celts dominated Western Europe for well over a thousand years. But it is only recently that the importance of a Celtic influence on the cultural, linguistic and artistic development of Europe has been recognized. The word "Celt" is derived from Greek "Keltoi". You might find this link interesting, http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MA/CELTS.HTM.


As for your question of Faeries, If you believe it in your heart, they are always about.

Slan Beo,

Bit
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