Well if you don't learn something here every day, or maybe every second day to be safe.

I accepted Kja must be on to something but I had no idea what it was until I skipped by all the verbs and reached number ten on the noun list:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shift

I've never seen a word with so many meanings.

"I've never seen a word with so many meanings."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/set

<<It seems to take people an awfully long time to pack their suitcases around here. Packing suitcases and checking out of hotels should not take longer than 20 minutes

I am equally stumped by the "it takes a half day to switch hotels". I thought I was the only one here who doesn't do carry-on to Europe, so what takes so long to pack?

And this advice ignores that day tripping from a city also takes time to leave the hotel, wait for transportation - and return the same way.

Or do slow travelers also assumed people should not take short day trips from a base??

>>I am equally stumped by the "it takes a half day to switch hotels".<<

My guess is, and I could be wrong, that people mean it takes a half day to change sites, not hotels. And in that sense, it's pretty reasonable general advice.

Cold, you ought to check out "scan".

Here are the first two definitions:

1. to glance at or over or read hastily:
to scan a page.
2. to examine the particulars or points of minutely; scrutinize.

<<I’m not convinced that a 2-night stay is better than nothing,>>

I really don't get that attitude you see a lot on FOdors, that if you don't want to or can't spend x amount of days in a place, you shouldn't go. ANy place you want to see is worth spending 2 days in IMO, if that's what you have. Why not? That doesn't even make sense. IN fact, when I do spend a lot of time in a city, usually it's the first couple of days when you do the things most important to you, and some of the remaining time is second rate.

And I'm really sick of people telling someone they should spend their entire vacation time in Paris and never go anywhere else, even when they have said they want to.

And yes, I have seen numerous people on Fodors tell people that it takes a half day to change hotels even within the same city. I don't get that, either, nor the hours of packing up. When I stay in Paris for 7 days or more, I often change hotels just because I want to be in a different neighborhood and also hedge my bets or try different hotels. I don't run all over the city on the metro for hours at night to go to restaurants, for one thing, I stay in the neighborhood and I like to experience different areas. Would be the same if I were going to spend that long in other cities, I just haven't. It really does not take me a half day to change hotels, it takes a couple hours including packing.

And I am not one of these carryon only people, either, but packing up once you are on vacation isn't that hard or time consuming as you have all the stuff you are taking, you just put it back in your suitcase. When packing for the trip at home, I can take longer by deciding what I really want to take, maybe switching stuff out, etc.

<<it takes a half day to change sites.

I recently posted here for advice on an Antwerp hotel and I mentioned that I was traveling there from Delft. I was told that this type of travel is not good – that it wastes a half-day, etc.

It is a two hour train ride from Delft to Antwerp. I could do that total transfer in about four hours probably – which is hardly half a day. And, if I had to return to Delft, that would also take over four hours of travel time .

People do travel in and out of different airports which reduces the need to backtrack.

Above, IMD used the time to get to and ride the hotel elevator in his travel calculations, which ignores that one must take time to ride the elevator regardless of where they are going. Unless we are saying that too takes so much time and one should travel so slow they don't even leave the hotel!

If I'm trying to be efficient in my city changes assuming a 2-4 hour train ride between, I usually do something like this:
Pack the night before (15 minutes at most)
Eat breakfast at hotel. (8 AM)
Head to train station. (8:30 AM)
Take train ride. (varies, of course)
Arrive at destination (10 AM to noon or so).
Taxi or walk to hotel (15 minutes)
Ready to start touring the new city anywhere from 11 AM to 1 PM, and I will have at least 10 hours to do so. This could be increased further by starting earlier and eating breakfast on the train.

Alternatively:
Pack in the morning (15 minutes).
Leave luggage at hotel.
Tour current city.
Return around 7 PM or later (so I have at least 10 hours touring that day if I want it).
Head to train station.
Take train ride. Maybe eat on train, either in diner car or with packed provisions.
Arrive in new city around 9 PM to midnight. Head out for dinner depending on timing and whether I ate on the train.

I read some of these posts and I wonder what kind of clock some of you live by. What style of travel are you willing to endure?

My days of missing a meal are over. Three to four meals a day are the only way my body knows how to stay safe, focused, and energized.

Hotel check out is normally 11 AM. Most people don't get up at 5 AM like I do. If you only have eight hours of light after breakfast (I <b>must</b> eat breakfast before I do any physical activity), four hours to change hotels is not out of the ordinary, hence half a day. Some people like to debate semantics until the thread takes forever to load. Then they want to beat an extra hour or two to death, as if checking in before 3 PM is the norm.

I love to change hotels, and experience my favorite rooms. I've been celebrating this process for decades. I love to compare and contrast, see old friends, and I love to experience different neighborhoods. No matter what you spend on a room, there is no guarantee that your room will be available at precisely the time you show up. If you're taking a cab or a car service, fifteen minutes can easily turn into forty-five. There are some things in travel you cannot control. It's always smarter and safer to allow some cushion in the timing.

Some people talk about time on this board in a very loose manner, empty of all specifics and details, which take time to type for each and every query. Sure, it only takes one hour to get to Varenna by train from Milano Centrale, but even if I land at MXP at 8:30 AM, I rarely get to Varenna before 3 PM, which is fine because that's check-in time. If you're like me and absolutely refuse to invite stress and rushing into your travel days, and you avoid gambling on the edges of your body's clock, safely moving around with luggage takes time.

I am a meticulous packer. Many items in my luggage are expensive. A woman who respects that clothing is an art form simply doesn't just throw her garments into her luggage in any old manner.

I get that some of you have never elevated your style much beyond your college backpacking years. Well, there's plenty of simple advice on these boards for those who can pack in ten minutes or less. For a traveler like me, that advice is useless.

Willit - that's amazing.

Apersuader - you're the legal mind here but aren't those contradictory? How can anyone learn to speak English if this stuff happens? Dammit - something's wrong.

>>I recently posted here for advice on an Antwerp hotel and I mentioned that I was traveling there from Delft.<<

I was speaking generally, not granular.

"How can anyone learn to speak English if this stuff happens?"

You tell us. Isn't English your second language?

<<I get that some of you have never elevated your style much beyond your college backpacking years.

Bwahaha.

We all know plenty of people who look good while traveling who don't take 3 hours to pack!

<i><font color=#555555>"We all know plenty of people who look good while traveling who don't take 3 hours to pack!"</font></i>

I don't know anyone on this board who carries over $10,000 worth of electronics when they travel, so I'm not silly enough to expect anyone to take three hours to pack. However, show me pictures of the folks who take ten minutes to pack, and I'll determine if they look good. I'm certainly not taking your word for it.

@ pariswat: PJs = pajamas, that is, a 2-piece nightwear set that has a top and a bottom. I had to look up “porte-jarretelles”, and if the translation I found is correct (suspender belt or garter belt), well, all I can say is – once again -- vive la difference! If somebody wants to scan Fodor’s (according to either of the definitions that apersuader65 has correctly noted) wearing only porte-jarretelles – hey, go for it! Just please, PLEASE -- don’t tell us! :-O

A shift, as colduphere and others have since learned, is a specific style of dress that a woman might wear (without going into all the niceties that follow from LGTB considerations, but NOT the more generic “dress” meaning attire). I didn't mean to send anyone scurrying to a dictionary -- I had no idea that the meaning was obscure! As I said, I have some shirts. That said, no reason not to expand anyone's vocabulary, right? :-) But I'm still not going to put one on anytime I look at, or respond to, Fodor's posts! ;-)


Perhaps a bit more on point – I find it fascinating that a thread that began with juries’s very useful question about whether we might be a bit more open to different approaches to travel has, once again, turned into a series of defiant defenses of one’s own way of travel and rejections or dismissals of the value of other ways -- AND a series of arguments about how to give advice. BYHs, JMO.

I have some shiFts...

a thread that began with juLies’s very useful question

I do not like autocorrect!

@kja - and you might wear a shift under a shift. In fact that's what I thought you meant...

Nevertheless this thread was quite useful and has funny sides.

We may shift towards another subject...

I haven't seen much defiance. I see more diversity of thought and need.

My sister and I have been taking trips together since we were teenagers. We have so much fun together. When we were younger, we did the cram itinerary, mostly in Italy, where it's so easy to do. About the time we hit 30, we started to slow down. I don't think of us as slow travelers. We can only plan a 15 night trip + 2 travel days once a year. We still like to visit multiple places sometimes, but our minimum is typically 5 nights per place.

We also enjoy hotel hopping, and we can afford to stay in better hotels because we split the cost. Still, I try to keep the room expense under 450 Euro per night. On our recent trip to France, we stayed in 4 different locations; 3 around Lake Annecy and 1 night in Lyon. The change in location averaged about a 40 minute drive, and by the time we packed, checked out, drove, checked-in, and unpacked, I think it's fair to say a half day went by.

We are both foodies, so we seek out celebrity chefs as one of many travel highlights. I typically wear a Paul Stuart suit with tie and dress shoes to dinner, but my sister is more of a fashion hound. She doesn't like to wear the same thing twice, and I know she stresses while packing her Manolo Blahniks.

We enjoy bringing home gifts to family and friends. We researched the best chocolate shops in that part of France, and between the two of us, we brought home 10 boxes of chocolate from 3 different shops. We're also big fans of European glass, ceramics, and tools for the kitchen. We never leave France without several jars of jam. The farmer's market in Annecy was incredible.

If people can pack in 20 minutes, I say good for them. We can't do that. My sister starts packing the night before we leave. She travels with bubble wrap and Bounty towels, and she has a very clever way of protecting her purchases in her luggage. She's taught me everything I know about packing. The artful wrapping on all our chocolate boxes remained undisturbed, and with a Bounty towel carefully folded to pad each box's interior, the delicate chocolates did not budge while the luggage was handled.

The more you travel, the more you learn what matters to you.