Recline The Seat?
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:28 AM
#41
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ira's response was not perfect -- it was clearly and proactively rude. The person in front of him MAY have been rude if he did, indeed, insist on non-stop reclining. But the "perfect" response to rudeness is never another rudeness.
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:46 AM
#42
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you, soccr!
No matter how uncomfortable Tim may be with a person reclined in front of him, he would never deliberately retaliate by pulling on the seat of the person in front of him. I find that quite rude and immature.
Liz
Liz
No matter how uncomfortable Tim may be with a person reclined in front of him, he would never deliberately retaliate by pulling on the seat of the person in front of him. I find that quite rude and immature.
Liz
Liz
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:49 AM
#43
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I too agree with soccr.
It is unbelievably rode to weigh on the seat in front to get up. This will wake the person up every time. Use your arm rests!
I actually got into an argument with a guy behind me once. When I politely asked him if he could stop doing that, he told me that I should "buy my own plane".
Hope it wasn't you, Ira? He was a skinny, fit guy btw.
It is unbelievably rode to weigh on the seat in front to get up. This will wake the person up every time. Use your arm rests!
I actually got into an argument with a guy behind me once. When I politely asked him if he could stop doing that, he told me that I should "buy my own plane".
Hope it wasn't you, Ira? He was a skinny, fit guy btw.
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:53 AM
#45
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question? Airlines are continually posting capacity rates. They are at 70% or there abouts. Obviously then, 30% of the available space is not taken! Lots of room? Why don't the passengers have it?
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:55 AM
#46
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am certainly NOT fat and I still find it difficult to get out of a middle or window seat if the people in front of me are fully reclined! From these posts it is clear that the recliners and the non-recliners (or polite people - kidding!) are going to be at odds as long at the pitch on plane seats is so poor.
Jan 18th, 2007, 08:02 AM
#47
I ave to accept the right of the person in front of me to recline but that person in turn has to accept that I likely will have to latch onto the back of the seat to get into the aisle. It is important to do leg exercises on long flights to help avoid DVT and those are almost impossible when the seat in front is fully reclined. Thus one must get up every so often and walk. If I have to use the seat back to do so, well, that's the way it is. That's not rudeness but necessity.
I expect that if the seat is reclined, the person in it should be reclining too. Too often the seat in front is reclined and the person is sitting straight up for a considerable time, or has left the seat for awhile. To leave the seat in a reclining position under those circumstances is rude, as is to recline during dinner service.
One thing that I have been noticing more and more often is that flight attendants seem to be missing people who are reclining during landing. They also seem to be missing those who have not opened the window shade during landing as well.
I expect that if the seat is reclined, the person in it should be reclining too. Too often the seat in front is reclined and the person is sitting straight up for a considerable time, or has left the seat for awhile. To leave the seat in a reclining position under those circumstances is rude, as is to recline during dinner service.
One thing that I have been noticing more and more often is that flight attendants seem to be missing people who are reclining during landing. They also seem to be missing those who have not opened the window shade during landing as well.
Jan 18th, 2007, 08:05 AM
#48
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems that airlines lately have "shortened" the recline position, and this helps the situation. Years ago on some airlines the seat WAS literally in the lap of the person behind.
I vote for "courtesy" during meal service, ....seats to the upright position.
NO ONE really likes having the seat in front of us reclined, but we just have to adapt and accept....and recline our own seats in order to get some rest and preserve the neck!!! Especially on an 8 to 11 hr. flight. or more?
But again, airlines have helped this situation by fixing the seats with a shorter recline.
And sometimes one DOES have to pull a little on the seat in front in order to get out to the aisle.
I vote for "courtesy" during meal service, ....seats to the upright position.
NO ONE really likes having the seat in front of us reclined, but we just have to adapt and accept....and recline our own seats in order to get some rest and preserve the neck!!! Especially on an 8 to 11 hr. flight. or more?
But again, airlines have helped this situation by fixing the seats with a shorter recline.
And sometimes one DOES have to pull a little on the seat in front in order to get out to the aisle.
Jan 18th, 2007, 08:10 AM
#49
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CO's seats do have a little more recline than many airlines.
BA's intra-Europe 737 have seats that are already reclined when at the "upright position". They become almost uncomfortable when reclining further.
Ryanair's seats are non-reclining. But their pitch is about 29-30", even less than CO's 757.
BA's intra-Europe 737 have seats that are already reclined when at the "upright position". They become almost uncomfortable when reclining further.
Ryanair's seats are non-reclining. But their pitch is about 29-30", even less than CO's 757.
Jan 18th, 2007, 08:20 AM
#51
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Thus one must get up every so often and walk. If I have to use the seat back to do so, well, that's the way it is. That's not rudeness but necessity."
No way it's a necessity unless you have some kind of physical impairment. You can use the arm rests to pull yourself up, try it! Many people just pull the seat out of habit, not necessity.
No way it's a necessity unless you have some kind of physical impairment. You can use the arm rests to pull yourself up, try it! Many people just pull the seat out of habit, not necessity.
Jan 18th, 2007, 08:44 AM
#52
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gosh, I'm reading this and thinking I must be flying on the wrong airline-- on American Airlines you can barely tell the diffeerence between when a seat is reclined and when it's not!
I remember though, when seats did recline more, and the young woman sitting in front of me reclined her seat all the way during the meal and then proceeded to flip her long hair over the seat back right into my dinner tray! YUCK!
I was tempted to selectively dip the ends of her hair into the salad dressing, but I restrained myself.
Sometimes it really is worth it to pay more to fly business class.
I remember though, when seats did recline more, and the young woman sitting in front of me reclined her seat all the way during the meal and then proceeded to flip her long hair over the seat back right into my dinner tray! YUCK!
I was tempted to selectively dip the ends of her hair into the salad dressing, but I restrained myself.
Sometimes it really is worth it to pay more to fly business class.
Jan 18th, 2007, 08:56 AM
#53
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can always tell who is an only child...usually those with a problem grasping the concept of common courtesies.
I don't recline all the way-- that extra couple of inches makes little difference on my comfort, but a world of difference to the person behind me.
The right of the person behind you to have reasonable accomodation supersedes your right to recline. What's so difficult about that?
I don't recline all the way-- that extra couple of inches makes little difference on my comfort, but a world of difference to the person behind me.
The right of the person behind you to have reasonable accomodation supersedes your right to recline. What's so difficult about that?
Jan 18th, 2007, 09:22 AM
#54
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a few more points I want to make, some specific about CO's 757, some just general:
- If you want to see what the cabin of such aircraft looks like, check out my photo at: rkkwan.zenfolio.com/p220270456/?photo=1041193752
- Like I said, CO's seats do have a little more recline than some other airlines. 5" at the top of the seat, compared to perhaps 3-4" on most others.
- The seats aren't that old, and I've not seen one that has ultra-large recline, like I have seen on certain older aircrafts on other airlines.
- The seats have a winged and height-adjustable headrest. So, one should be able to keep all one's head and hair within one's area.
- Seat-pitch is a standard, but tight, 31".
- The tray table rest at a decent height, giving enough room between one's thighs and table; and the table top can slide towards the passenger. <b>So, you don't have to lean all the way forward against the seat in front to eat,</b> though I see many people still do it that way.
- One should have no problem getting out of an aisle seat without touching the seat in front, even when fully reclined.
- For the other two to get out, the best way is for the aisle passenger to get out first, then lift the armrests between the seats, then slide to the aisle seat and get up. There's no need to touch the seats in front, even when they're full-reclined. Grab on to the seatbacks of your own bank of seats if necessary, not the ones in front.
- Everybody should check out seatguru.com for seat description. For those who don't need reclining seatbacks, please pick Rows 14 or 15. Similarly, for those who don't want others to lean onto you, Rows 8 (or 7, depending on configuration), 15 and 16 are for you. CO allows online check-in, even for most international flights, so you have a chance to pick the ones that suit you.
- If you want to see what the cabin of such aircraft looks like, check out my photo at: rkkwan.zenfolio.com/p220270456/?photo=1041193752
- Like I said, CO's seats do have a little more recline than some other airlines. 5" at the top of the seat, compared to perhaps 3-4" on most others.
- The seats aren't that old, and I've not seen one that has ultra-large recline, like I have seen on certain older aircrafts on other airlines.
- The seats have a winged and height-adjustable headrest. So, one should be able to keep all one's head and hair within one's area.
- Seat-pitch is a standard, but tight, 31".
- The tray table rest at a decent height, giving enough room between one's thighs and table; and the table top can slide towards the passenger. <b>So, you don't have to lean all the way forward against the seat in front to eat,</b> though I see many people still do it that way.
- One should have no problem getting out of an aisle seat without touching the seat in front, even when fully reclined.
- For the other two to get out, the best way is for the aisle passenger to get out first, then lift the armrests between the seats, then slide to the aisle seat and get up. There's no need to touch the seats in front, even when they're full-reclined. Grab on to the seatbacks of your own bank of seats if necessary, not the ones in front.
- Everybody should check out seatguru.com for seat description. For those who don't need reclining seatbacks, please pick Rows 14 or 15. Similarly, for those who don't want others to lean onto you, Rows 8 (or 7, depending on configuration), 15 and 16 are for you. CO allows online check-in, even for most international flights, so you have a chance to pick the ones that suit you.
Jan 18th, 2007, 11:12 AM
#55
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airplane seats have reclined at least as long as I have been flying( many , many years). I don't recall this being an "issue" years ago. It seems like a recent phenomena, everybody being so sensitive and demanding new rights every day.
Would I prefer that the person in front of me doesn't recline? ....Yes...the same that I would prefer not to have anybody next to me but that doesn't give me the right to demand it ( or to wear those knee things to prevent the person in front of me from reclining).
Would I prefer that the person in front of me doesn't recline? ....Yes...the same that I would prefer not to have anybody next to me but that doesn't give me the right to demand it ( or to wear those knee things to prevent the person in front of me from reclining).
Jan 18th, 2007, 11:14 AM
#56
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To add to rkkwan's factfile: On Air Canada: seat recline is given as 4 inches in economy on a 763, seat pitch 31 to 32 inches, and 6 inches on most of the Airbus fleet, seat pitch 32 to 33 inches. (There are also some seats that recline less, or not at all, which reinforces the fact that seat recline isn't a right - see below.)
Nothing about seating is guaranteed on a flight, short of being guaranteed to have some sort of seat (as opposed to being flown in the cargo hold, say, or out on the wing. Don't laugh.. I think the beancounters at most airlines are working on this arrangement....)
Nobody is guaranteed the right to recline, since this is subject to the crew's instructions (especially on takeoff/landing.) But neither is one guaranteed the right to get up without having to put oneself out a bit, or guaranteed the right to be freed of the obstruction of a reclined seat in front of one. For that matter, there is also no right to move around a plane, although it is generally conceded that it will be necessary for pax to do so at some point during the flight.
In the absence of absolute rights, conflicting interests have to be negotiated, and the job of the FA is to resolve conflict if negotiation doesn't work. I don't particularly think she did a great job in this case; you don't have the right to an uninterrupted sleep, but at the same time, this should also have meant that when the pax behind you wished to move, they could have awakened you so as to have you adjust your seat, rather than had you stay upright the entire time.
Meanwhile, after seeing umpteen of these kind of threads, I sometimes wonder how early European settlers made it to these shores in the kind of vessels they did. Clearly few of us today would have the stoicism to manage their voyage, given that the quarters involved were cramped, smelly, and inhabited for a journey that took weeks, not hours.
Nothing about seating is guaranteed on a flight, short of being guaranteed to have some sort of seat (as opposed to being flown in the cargo hold, say, or out on the wing. Don't laugh.. I think the beancounters at most airlines are working on this arrangement....)
Nobody is guaranteed the right to recline, since this is subject to the crew's instructions (especially on takeoff/landing.) But neither is one guaranteed the right to get up without having to put oneself out a bit, or guaranteed the right to be freed of the obstruction of a reclined seat in front of one. For that matter, there is also no right to move around a plane, although it is generally conceded that it will be necessary for pax to do so at some point during the flight.
In the absence of absolute rights, conflicting interests have to be negotiated, and the job of the FA is to resolve conflict if negotiation doesn't work. I don't particularly think she did a great job in this case; you don't have the right to an uninterrupted sleep, but at the same time, this should also have meant that when the pax behind you wished to move, they could have awakened you so as to have you adjust your seat, rather than had you stay upright the entire time.
Meanwhile, after seeing umpteen of these kind of threads, I sometimes wonder how early European settlers made it to these shores in the kind of vessels they did. Clearly few of us today would have the stoicism to manage their voyage, given that the quarters involved were cramped, smelly, and inhabited for a journey that took weeks, not hours.
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:09 PM
#57
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm 5'1" and small so I just put up with it...unless the person ahead is reclining during dinner. Then I tap that person and ask them--nicely--to please put their seat up so I can eat (unless they're sleeping, then I ask the attendant to do it). No one has ever given me a hard time when I've asked.
Now when it's time to sleep (int'l flight), sorry, I'm reclining. I've never had anyone object, so I must not have been sitting in front of some folks in this thread. ;-)
Now when it's time to sleep (int'l flight), sorry, I'm reclining. I've never had anyone object, so I must not have been sitting in front of some folks in this thread. ;-)
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:22 PM
#58
Viajero, I am an only child. My attitude toward reclining my seat is just about the same as yours. My attitude toward only children is significantly different.
Cruiseluv, the reclining seat was not an issue when there was enough room between rows to stand up, walk in front of the passenger next to you, sit with your legs crossed, put your feet up on footrests. Seats have been getting closer and closer and now that the quarters are so cramped, people are much more uncomfortable. Not more sensitive, not more demanding, just more uncomfortable.
Cruiseluv, the reclining seat was not an issue when there was enough room between rows to stand up, walk in front of the passenger next to you, sit with your legs crossed, put your feet up on footrests. Seats have been getting closer and closer and now that the quarters are so cramped, people are much more uncomfortable. Not more sensitive, not more demanding, just more uncomfortable.
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:42 PM
#59
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This whole thread is a sad reminder of just how pervasive the "me first" attitude has become. Just because you "can" do something doesn't mean that you "should" do it. For those who don't have a problem when someone in front of them fully reclines the seat and therefore thinks it's OK for them to do the same, try sitting far enough forward so that your knees are touching the seatback in front of you and then have the person in that seat fully recline it. You'll find out why those of us whose knees are already touching your seatback feel when you insist on fully reclining it and why you might - if you are sitting in front of me - find that your seat doesn't recline very much.
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:54 PM
#60
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Nikki, then the airlines should modify the seats and not allow them to recline. But until they do that, or they make a general rule that NOBODY can recline,I'll keep reclining if I'm so inclined. And I don't think is right that a flight attendant singles out a passenger ( like it happened to the OP) while other passengers are allowed to recline, no problem.
