Jim

Will arrive in Rome mid-Sept. Going to stay near Lucca. At the end of a few weeks there, we go to Venice then back to Rome. We need a car to go from our house in the hills in to Lucca but I'd rather not have to drive all over Tuscany. Was thinking about a rail pass for three weeks. Would drive into Lucca and hop on a train for wherever we want to go that day. <BR> <BR>My questions. Has anyone used a rail pass? Did they actually save money or time? Would you do it again? <BR> <BR>Thanks very much.

amg

Jim, <BR> <BR>We did not use a rail pass. I tried to research using a railpass for a trip which included 5 days in Tuscany. We found that you could not get to alot of the smaller towns via the train, bus seemed to be the best option in most cases. Also, from Lucca, I think you would have to change trains in Florence to get most places, this adds to your daily commute. We ended up driving. Which was fine, but not without stress (our brand new BMW rental car broke down). <BR> <BR>Check out www.raileurope.com. They have a section where you can map out point to point tickets for most cities. <BR> <BR>Good luck. <BR> <BR>A

Paulo

I may be wrong on this Jim, but I guess that no pass will fit your needs. The Kilometric Ticket is just about what would be available. Once most trains in Tuscany are 2nd class only, you'd be paying Lit 214,000 for up to 5 people, total rail distance of a maximum of 3,000km and up to 20 trips. If you divide 3,000 by 20, you'll get 150km. Once the distance of an average trip in Tuscany will fall way short of this, it would cost more to get the pass as individual tickets. <BR> <BR>I agree with amg that the train is not a very good mode of transportation in Tuscany (specially when you've already got a car). Connections are quite awkward (train changes likely) and most hill towns in Tuscany are not connected via rail and you'd have to use the rail/bus combo to reach them. Though Lucca is located in the northern part of Tuscany, you'd be able to easily visit central Tuscany by car (1 1/2 hours driving to Siena, for instance). Cities like Montalcino are a bit far (2 1/2 hours) but you wouldn't consider visiting by train/bus anyways. <BR> <BR>If you have a map, to get a picture, consider the following: <BR> <BR>a) there's a local train trunk that connects Lucca to Florence; this stops in Altopascio, Pescia, Montecatini, Pistoia, Prato and Sesto Fiorentino; <BR> <BR>b) there's a local train trunk that connects Florence to Siena; this stops in Empoli, Ponte Elsa, Granaiolo, Castelfiorentino, Certaldo, Barberino, Poggibonsi/San G. and Castellina/Monteriggioni <BR> <BR>c) a third local train trunk connects Pisa to Empoli, stopping at

Paulo

Oops .. continuing <BR> <BR>... at the Airport, Pontedera/Casciana Terme and S. Miniato/Fucecchio; <BR> <BR>d) Florence is connected with Chiusi on the main trunk, and Chiusi is connected to Siena and Montepulciano. Siena and Montepulciano are connected as well (with stops at Arbia, Castelnuovo Berardenga, Asciano, Rapolano Terme, Sinalunga and Torrita). <BR> <BR>Of course, Lucca is also directly connected to Pisa and to Viareggio on local trunks. <BR> <BR>That's about it ... To use a train as main mode of transportation in Tuscany, the best place to use as a base would somewhere near Empoli! From Lucca to Central Tuscany you'd have to make at least one change (either in Empoli or Florence). <BR> <BR>I would use the train to visit Florence (mostly to avoid parking nuisances), and that would be it. A car would be much more convenient and fun for visiting other places. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR>

cynthia

Paulo how does the Kilometric pass work for a couple? We are going from Venice to Genoa, to try and get to the Cinque Terre. Then to Naples, Pompeii, to Brindisi port, and Greece. On the way hoem want to stop in Florence. Should we buy this pass or just buy pt. to pt. tickets? I am assuming the 3000 km is for both our tickets combined as we travel. I hope it doesn't mean you have to travel consecutive days. Please advise.

Tony

Cynthia.. <BR> <BR>For the kind of distances you are planning I think the Italy Rail Card is your best bet. You can buy these for using trains for four days in any month, for $239 lst.Class, $159 2nd.Class, or for using trains on any 8 days in one month for #334 1st.Cl. $223 2nd.Cl. <BR>This should cover you train travel in Italy. I would recommend 1st.Class if it does'nt damage the budget. <BR>With these passes can pretty well board trains at will, without lining up or having hassles, although you do need a seat reservation of the Italian Eurostar high speed trains, easily obtainable day before or on the day at any Italian station. <BR>There are also similar Eurail passes, that cover the same options, and can be used in Italy and Greece (plus other countries) and I think will cover the ferry crossing from Brindisi also. <BR>Go to www.ricksteves.com for full details on passes. <BR>Incidentally there are frequent trains from Genoa to Cinque Terre.

Paulo

The best train options from Venice to, say, Monterosso al Mare in the CT is the direct IC train leaving at 10:00am (arriving at 3:57pm) or the IC leaving at 3:00pm (arriving at 9:04pm). The ticket would cost Lit 57,200/94,300 + Lit 5,800 for seat reservation. <BR> <BR>From Monterosso to Naples, you'd have to take a local train to La Spezia (2nd class only) and an IC train thereafter. The trip takes around 7 hours (a little less or more depending on train) and you'd pay Lit 70,100/117,500 + Lit 5,800 for seat reservations on the IC train. <BR> <BR>From Naples to Pompeii you'd be using the Circumvesuviana train which's a local train that has nothing to do with Ferrrovia dello Stato (passes would apply). <BR> <BR>From Naples to Brindisi a good option appears to be the Express train levaing Naples at 1:00pm, arriving at 6:47pm. On this, you'd pay Lit 35,600/58,800. One could also take an Interegional train to Caserta at 2:00pm and an Eurostar thereafter (arriving at 6:55pm). In this case, the price would read Lit 59,100/90,300 (mandatory seat reservation on the Eurostar already included). <BR> <BR>So, if you buy individual tickets, the most you'd pay, including seat reservations, would be Lit 198,000/313,700. <BR> <BR>The total rail distance would read something around 1,200km ... In principle, therefore you would be able to use a Kilometric Ticket but it wouldn't pay. You'd have to pay all IC and ES supplements and seat reservations separately. At best, it would cost more or less the same. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR> <BR>PS. Be prepared for a long trip from Brindisi to Florence (8 to 11 hours depending on train; the fastest is an Eurostar to Rome (leaving at 10:56am) and another one to Florence (arriving at 7:05pm); ticket would cost Lit 117,900/185,600 including seat reservations. <BR>

Jim

Thank you all so very much. I'm not sure If I should reply to you each personally or if this is sufficient but your generosity with both time and knowledge is greatly appreciated. <BR> <BR>Jim

cynthia

Thanks so much for your help people. I feel better about this now.

cynthia

Hi, me again. Forgive me, I'm at work so don't have a map. How far from Monterosso al Mare to la Spezia? Since we want to do the Cinque Terre we go to La Spezia I guess and then hope to stay in Vernazza. Then on to Naples/Pompeii. Are we o.k. to book the Venice to Monterosso train a day ahead? Know of any good pensions, in Venice? thanks you guys.

Paulo

Why do you think you have to go to La Spezia first? Monterosso is a 3 minute train ride from Monterosso! If you take the first of the above suggested trains, you'd be able to continue from Monterosso at 4:15pm. If you take the 2nd one, you'd have to wait a bit and take the 10:18pm train out. All other options would involve at least 2 changes. If you leave Venice at 11:00am, you'd have to change in Milan and Genoa, arriving in Vernazza at 6:27pm. <BR> <BR>Reserving the day before should do. <BR> <BR>Paulo <BR>