Rail pass and Reservations?
 

Hello everyone!

Like a lot of people on here, I'm debating very heavily on whether or not to get a France / Italy railpass or just buy point to point. A lot of it seems to be based on whether or not I need to also get reservations. If I don't need reservations, then the railpass makes sense. When I throw in the reservation thing, then buying point to point makes sense.

Below is the basic itinerary that I would like to try to accomplish either via rail pass or via point to point. Note that I'm meeting friends in Nice and traveling with them after that. These friends don't want to do first class, so I'm thinking of doing first class until I meet them.

Any and all help and advice here would be appreciated.

Specifically:

How do I know whether or not a reservation is required? Which of these segments should I really consider getting a reservation for?

When I buy a point to point, is the seat reservation automatically included? If not, how do I get the seat reservation?

If I don't get a seat reservation, can I still get on the train and stand?

If I buy a rail pass, is it going to be cheaper to buy the reservations once I get to Europe?

Is it cheaper to buy a rail pass online from the US or directly from a train station in Europe?

What it the best web site to use to actually buy a pass or point to point reservations?

Somewhat unrelated, do these trains have non-smoking? How do I get in a non-smoking section?

THANK YOU!

Itinerary (built from Raileurope.com):

From Rome to Florence $54.00 1st class; 1 adult
[12:30 PM-02:06 PM] 05/11/2006, Train 9438
Roma Termini to Firenze S M N, Seat

From Florence to Venice $50.00 1st class; 1 adult
[12:39 PM-03:28 PM] 05/14/2006, Train 9468
Firenze S M N to Venezia S Lucia, Seat

From Venice to Nice $93.00 1st class; 1 adult
[12:04 PM-02:55 PM] 05/17/2006, Train 114
Venezia Mestre to Milano Centrale, Seat
[03:10 PM-07:58 PM] 05/17/2006, Train 159
Milano Centrale to Nice Ville, Seat

From Nice to Orleans $127.00 2nd class; 1 adult
[10:20 AM-02:40 PM] 05/20/2006, Train 6886
Nice Ville to Lyon Part Dieu, Seat
[03:06 PM-06:53 PM] 05/20/2006, Train 4506
Lyon Part Dieu to Vierzon Ville, Seat
[07:07 PM-08:00 PM] 05/20/2006, Train 61450
Vierzon Ville to Orleans, Seat

From Orleans to Bayeux $51.00 2nd class; 1 adult
[09:41 AM-10:50 AM] 05/22/2006, Train 14050
Orleans to Paris Austerlitz, Seat
[12:25 PM-02:26 PM] 05/22/2006, Train 3309
Paris St Lazare to Bayeux, Seat

From Bayeux to Paris $37.00 2nd class; 1 adult
[10:35 AM-10:53 AM] 05/24/2006, Train 52214
Bayeux to Caen, Seat
[11:03 AM-01:12 PM] 05/24/2006, Train 3342
Caen to Paris St Lazare, Seat

You need reservations on all the Italian trains if they're Eurostar or IC+ trains - regular IC trains don't require them - Eurostars charge about a $15 supplement to ride over the pass.
Nice-Lyon TGV requires reservations - 3 euro if done in France.
It's probably quicker if you took a TGV from Nice to Paris and then backtracked to Orleans
for example leave Nice at 9:36am ar Paris 15:07 and then take the ten minute walk across the Seine bridge than virtually links the Gare du Lyon where your TGV arrives and go to the Gare Austerlitz for trains to Orleans, depart Austerlitz at 17:03 and arrive in Orleans at 18:08 - this way would be fine with a railpass but would cost more if buying point-point tickets as it's longer than taking the shorter but slower sideline Lyon-Vierzon. (Note the effective main station for Orleans is Aubrais-Orleans - many trains only stop here and a navette (shuttle) train goes the two miles into Orleans dead-end terminus. Some Austerlitz trains go directly into Orleans.
Reservations may required now even on the Lyon-Vierzon and Paris-Caen/Bayeux trains if they are called TEOZ Coral trains - a new creature as of last year on regional routes that like TGVs, require reservations (3 e)
Personally it seems you're traveling so much that the France-Italy pass is a no brainer - even though you'll have to pay supplements for a few Italian trains - especially for its flexibility aspect - you can make all your needed reservations at once in each country at any station so won't have to do it everytime. If you have questions on France-Italy pass and things like reservations i always suggest calling BETS (800-441-2387; www.budgeteuropetravel.com) for their expertise and willingness to answer any rail questions with expertise; on their web site you can request their free European Planning & Rail Guide thatis a great primer for European rail travel and answers questions like you posed. www.ricksteves.com also has good info on using railpasses and reservations; www.euraide.com as well.
The pass is not sold in France and is marketed only by RailEurope.

As for the Orleans-Bayeux trajectory - i recently did this route via St Pierre des Corps on regional trains that probably don't require reservations- my current Thomas Cook says trains leave St Pierre des Corps Mon-Sat at 9:57 and arrive in Caen at 12:51 - leave Caen at 13:19 ar Bayeux 13:42 - if this route is still running through service - there was some debate about taking it out - it would be quicker and more convenient than changing stations in Paris. Leave Orleans at 8:13 on this way, change at Aubrais and arrive Tours at 9:37 - when i did it change at SPCorps was from one platform to another. www.sncf.com may have schedules for this route but my trusty bahn.de one did not.
I spent several summers in Orleans babysitting my son - i guess you must be going there to see family too as though it's a very pleasant town it's one of the more boring in France.

These are the suggested routes from RailEurope when putting in point to point connections. It sounds like RailEurope isn't always very good and I really appreciate the suggestions for alternate routes.

We are using Orleans as our jump off spot to see the Loire Valley (castles!). It was suggested as a good place to do this from. Although there may not be a lot to see, we do like the idea of going to Joan de Arc's town.

Has anybody been to Pisa? We were thinking of sneaking in a stop between Rome and Florence to see the tower, but weren't sure it this was feasible to do in a day considering the Rome to Pisa train suggested by Rail Europe got in around 2:00 PM.

Perhaps better off taking the high-speed Eurostar to Florence, checking into hotel and then taking train to Pisa. Last time i was in Pisa there was no left luggage open in the station and the coastal Rome-Pisa route is fairly slow going compared to Eurostars - from Florence there are about hourly trains that go via Pisa Centrale station to the Pisa S. Riggiore (sp?) station which is just a few-minute stroll from the Leaning Tower, which is not in the town center and a few miles from Pisa Centrale station. Be sure to reserve a tower climb time on the web, say around 5 and you'll have no problem getting in - otherwise in busy periods problematic without long wait - when i was there two years ago they only were letting 70 people up a hour.
I use the www.bahn.de site - the budget europe web site i mention above has on their home page a link to the excellent German site's English timetable page where you just put in Orleans and Bayeux and via any town and you'll get all the schedules for the date you put in. This is usually the best site for train schedules all over Europe, including France and is often easier to use than the French or Italian rail sites, which often, in my experience, experience 'technical difficulties' - but the German site didn't have any trains via St Pierre Corps from Orleans except routing thru Paris and back - i've noticed these occasion glitches so that train tours-caen may well be running. And they are fairly nice trains and wasn't so mobbed as TGVs always seem to be.
I didn't mean to dis Orleans - very pleasant town - the Joan of Arc house, rebuilt after most of Orleans center was blitzed to rubble during WWII, part of the reason the town lacks the old look of many French towns, is the only relic of the Saint here - the house she made her headquarters i think after delivering Orleans from the British. The cathedral is very astonishing - very under-rated and one of the biggest in France and is concsecrated to Joan, France's patron Saint. On May 8 (?)each year there is an elaborate and colorful procession in Orleans in honor of Joan - it's a local holiday. And the Loire here has its own neat look - be sure to walk down to the river - not far from the town center. Orleans is a thriving town with lots of good restaurants, hotels and a great shopping district. There is also a Joan statue, on a horse, in the Place Martroi, the town's main square.

PalQ, thanks for all the help!

We haven't yet decided on the best way to see the castles. There will be 7 of us (meeting everybody else in Nice), so getting a car may be out. Do you know of any particularly good tours or alternatives for seeing the castles? We think that we probably only need to see 2 of them and then we'll be castled-out.

I don't suppose that you've been to Nice? We're planning on that being a relaxing spot with some beach time, but any advice on what to do there would be appreciated as well.

The easiest way to see the castles are with mini-bus tours - inexpensive they simply provide transport to 2 or 3 castles a day or a few in half-day tours but i don't know if many leave from Orleans - many more leave from Amboise and Tours, more in the epicenter of the most famous castles, Chenonceaux, Chambord, Azay-le-Rideau, Amboise, etc. You could take a train there from Orleans but research first - there are several mini-bus companies. Orleans' tourist office does coordinate mini-bus tours and i'd contact them.
I've been to Nice many times and the beach there is pebbles and not so relaxing as it's often mobbed - but if you take the commuter train a few miles west to a place like Biot station there are nice sandy beaches less mobbed.

travman - you are comparing the cost of a railpass to the Raileurope price of point to point tickets. If you purchase the tickets in Europe, or on-line from the US, the point to point tickets will be cheaper. For example Rome to Florence on an IC-plus train, including the seat reservation fee would cost e31.8 from www.trenitalia.com the official webpage of the Italian State railways.

For travman's itinerary, in spite of cheap Italian online tickets the France-Italy railpass is the best option - many of his/her French train routes don't offer many PREMs and the prices of those trips alone would warrant a France pass i think and as the France and Italy pass is not all that much more i'd go for that. I'd also go for first class as the pass differential in prices between the two classes is surprisingly small and you'll have a lot more empty seats and easier for several folks to sit together - also easier reserving Italian trains in first class with the pass. So i think the pass is the best option here - saverpass has two or more names on one pass at a discount - can get groups of two on saverpasses the same price p.p. as putting all on one pass and some flexibility. Those only traveling in France should buy the cheaper France Railpass of course.

NEVER rely on the routings or costs that raileurope provide. It exists mainly to extract the most possible money from North Americans

PalQ - Thanks for the Orleans suggestions... what are your favorite castles? Also, I'm a him, but traveling with 4 hers (pretty good, eh?)... oh and 3 of the hers have husbands.

I think we'll go with the France - Italy Pass and wait to get reservations until we get there. The flexibility of it should be nice, especially if we decide to go to Pisa.

Everyone - Thanks for the advice on trains. It has been very helpful. Any more suggestions?

Just re-read my last post about traveling with 4 hers and realized that it may not be taken as a joke... It was a joke. ;-)

My favorite castles are: Chambord, Azay-le-Rideau and Chenonceaux though all are great. Chambord can be reached by special public buses from Blois, a short rail ride from Orleans. But on short time hop the minibus tours which i'm sure also leave from Orleans - i've seen the prospectus from them in the tourist office.