PalQ

Anyone who has used European trains, especially urban lines has seen lots of evidence of vandalism, from graffiti to windows scratched with some slogan to ripped seats, etc.
Well now the Dutch Railways are fighting back with a kind of vigilante approach as in a trial 35 train riders in the Amsterdam area have been selected to take pictures with their cell phones if they see vandalism or unrest on a train or in a station - the pictures are instantly sent to an NS (Dutch Railways) "alarm centre" which coordinates action against the vandals. Following the trial NS hopes to introduce the scheme national wide.
Whilst i'm all for reducing vandalism i'm not sure that the old urging folks to tattle on others and the Big Brother is watching you aspect is the way to go - why not just have CT Cameras in each car and station to record the vandalism.
What do you think?

PatrickLondon

I can't see a moral difference between CCTV and individuals with mobile phone cameras - other than the risk of retaliation against the individuals. Citizen's duty and all that.

There is a practical problem about how the monitoring is going to be managed. My guess is that the kind of people that do this sort of thing will either decamp as soon as they realise they're spotted, thus getting well away before they can be dealt with officially, or glory in getting themselves some notoriety.

Christina

I don't think I understand this either. It just sounds like some "metro police" or the rail equivalent of that. The fact that you call it vigilante I don't understand. This is just a way for them to have moveable and mobile cameras to record crime, rather than fixed ones. Makes sense to me, and is a lot better and more flexible.

What's this got to do with age (you talking about "the old&quot seeing crime. This isn't some cute little trivial thing which you imply by calling witnessing crime as "tattling" on others. Vandalism is a crime and people who do it should be prosecuted as it ruins property and makes things worse for everyone using those things.

I am not sure why you think this is any worse than a policeman witnessing crime and them prosecuting the guy. If they are selecting people, this isn't a matter of urging other to "tattle" on people, it's hiring people for a job. If you are calling them vigilante because they aren't paid -- so what, lots of organizations have volunteers doing jobs.

PalQ

Well Christina i agree with lots of your arguments but i still think it too much of a police state - why not target jay walkers, litterers, folks smoking in no-smoking train stations, etc. I mean everyone could be arrested for something perhaps - and maybe train vandalism is worse than the above petty crimes i mention. A conundrum for me and as a train lover i'd like to stop vandalism on trains in any way possible i guess.

Brian_in_Charlotte

"why not target jay walkers, litterers, folks smoking in no-smoking train stations".

Yes, why not?

PalQ

Well it's just the thought of everyone everywhere photographing you for any little act - the big fear will be that, like police have oft been accused of, that only certain types will be targeted - young folks, ethnic groups perhaps - i think we have more important ways to use our precious police operations than on litterers and jay walkers personally, not that i condone that type of stuff either. Same with speed traps - how many more police and judicial staff would be required to act on the flood of complaints that may entail.

smueller

"Big Brother" is not watching you. That's the point. If you are being watched and recorded, it is by responsible citizens. A reluctancy to "tattle" is a sign of immaturity and should be left in junior high school.

PatrickLondon

There is also the point that the kind of disregard for others' amenity shown by vandalism, smoking in no-smoking areas and so on, soon builds up into an environment that feels positively threatening to people with a normal level of concern for others, and tends to encourage more serious crime. Conversely an environment that says "this area is cared for and watched over" produces a beneficent circle.

PalQ

CCTV cameras in Amsterdam's centre have apparently made the streets there much safer than before - whereas before pickpockets or bag snatchers could steal with impunity - many tourists would never even report it - now the omnipresent cameras provide yes a welcoming modicum of security.
And undercover cops as well - i once say a guy carrying a pot of flowers and he suddenly dropped the flowers and nabbed a guy, handcuffed him and took him away. I'm all for increased security but think J walking and petty stuff the security funds could be better spent on things that really increase my security. But you all you have made good points and perhaps i'm reconsidering some of my statements.