Rail Europe/Trenitalia schedule question
 

We want to go from Venice to Florence in July, with a short stop in Verona on the way. When I check the Trenitalia site, there is only one possible train from Verona to Florence, but not a great time. However, on the Rail Europe site, there are other options. They are on Trn Autres, Eurostar, and Cisalpino. What are these trains and how would I book them directly, and not through Rail Europe? I hear Rail Europe charges quite a bit more. Thanks!

The summer schedule is not completely out yet. Pick a closer date just to get an idea of frequency, journey length and cost.

ditto

Raileurope charges marginally more now for Italian trains when I've compared though they do have a service charge for orders under a certain $ limit that can make buying a single ticket much higher but not really several tickets as the charge is a one-time flat fee. That said there is no reason not to wait until Italy IME to buy all those tickets and yes save a few euro if not more (I have not checked prices recently) - and be sure that trains will run at hourly or more on those routes - it may be that Trenitalia has not put up summer schedules yet - a snafu they often have for travel after early June - but I guarantee you there will be lots of trains as always and that you will have no problem buying tickets for all those trains once in Venice. Just don't worry about that and if you want to try to nab marginal discounts online try trenitalia.com and be prepared for lots of possible glitches and frustrations if scores of Fodorite complains are valid. But see what the possible savings are - very little I would think Venice to Verone - the cheaper IC trains however take longer.

Here are some tremendous sites that give oodles of great info on Italian trains - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

RailEurope is a reseller and marks up the prices. They don't offer the discounted tickets either.

Summer schedules are loaded on some routes, but not all as Trenitalia tends to be last minute. Winter schedules run though June 11 so you might have to wait a week or two before the rest of summer is loaded to book tickets.

>>>Just don't worry about that and if you want to try to nab marginal discounts online try trenitalia.com and be prepared for lots of possible glitches and frustrations if scores of Fodorite complains are valid<<<

Simple not accurate. The discounts are 60% on many routes, hardly marginal. People have not had problems buying online from Trenitalia since December when they last updated their system. Before December, they couldn't seem to process American credit cards, but it's not been a problem since (no AmEx though).

You will need to book Venice/Verona and Verona/Florence separately if you want to make a stop. On the majority of faster trains in Italy (AV,ES,ESCity,IC) seats are mandatory (included in the price on Trenitalia). You can't just hop on any train with a ticket or with a pass.

For Venice/Verona on the fast ES train, a regular ticket is 20€ 2nd class. The mini fare is 10€ so saves you 50%. Mini fare info:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

The Verona Porta Nuovo station has luggage storage.
http://www.grandistazioni.it/cms/v/i...003f16f90aRCRD

It's possible there will be some price adjustments with the summer schedules. They may tweak their discount offers also.

. The discounts are 60% on many routes, hardly marginal - are those tickets train specific or changeable - do they lock you into a train? If not the savings of 10 euros may not IMO be worth the hassle.
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And anyway the average tourist will be much better off IMO in first class in Italy as anywhere in Europe - especially if lugging around luggage.

And IMO anyone who says there is little difference between first and second class on Italian trains simply has not ridden in first class - there is a reason there are more than one first class carriages on most Italian trains and some reason Italians pay more to ride in it? Or are they just the idiots kybourbon has said in the past or as much as said to pay extra for nothing more?

Thank you all for your very useful information! I will keep checking and it looks like there will be a lot more options soon, because there are many more options now - in May and early June. It's good to hear Trenitalia has updated its system, too! Thanks again

What about ItaliaRail.com? It seems to be pretty much like trenitalia. And the prices are just as good (it seems to me). I usually check them both but am planning to use ItaliaRail to reserve. Any opinions on this?

>>>They are on Trn Autres, Eurostar, and Cisalpino. What are these trains and how would I book them directly,<<<

RailEurope has made up some of these names and also has invented train numbers. They are using the Trn Autres term for Trenitalia's slow R trains (regional and regional veloce). You can try to match trains by the departure times.

There are actual Cisalpino trains which were used on the international runs between Italy and Switzerland. These were tilting trains and not very good, but some are still in use. It's doubtful most of the trains RE is labeling Cisalpino are actually real Cisalpino trains. There are using the term Cisalpino for Trenitalia's ESCity trains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisalpino

>>>>What about ItaliaRail.com? It seems to be pretty much like trenitalia. And the prices are just as good (it seems to me). I usually check them both but am planning to use ItaliaRail to reserve. Any opinions on this?<<<<

No, the prices aren't as good. Trenitalia is the Italain train company. Raileurope and Italiarail are pass sellers and resellers of Trenitalia's tickets. They mark up the ticket about 10% and charge a processing fee. On some tickets, they double your cost. There is no point in using ItaliaRail or RailEurope when you can use Trentalia. Italiarail does seem to list more of Trenitalia's trains than RE does, but a simple R ticket purchased from them would cost you $15 vs $9 on Trenitalia.

>>>>And IMO anyone who says there is little difference between first and second class on Italian trains simply has not ridden in first class - there is a reason there are more than one first class carriages on most Italian trains and some reason Italians pay more to ride in it? Or are they just the idiots kybourbon has said in the past or as much as said to pay extra for nothing more?<<<

I've never used the word idiot in a thread or called anyone an idiot on Fodor's ever. Don't contribute things to me that I've never said and is language you would use, not me. As for the very small difference between 1st and 2nd class on Italian fast trains, that is not just my opinion, but dozens of people on Fodor's and multiple rail sites. You seem to be the only person insisting otherwise. I'm not sure how you can profess to be such an expert on point-to-point tickets purchased online or 2nd class when you insist you only travel by 1st class rail pass. The average traveler has purchased their airfare online, their hotel online, their museum ticket online so the world will not end if they purchase a train ticket online also. Even you could do the math of two 1st class cars (about 100 people) versus 5-9 2nd class cars (350-630 people) and figure out which class the majority of Italians use.

For anyone wanting to see the differences, here's a link to pictures. The AV/ES trains are the first set of pictures and the ESCity are the 2nd set. These are the fast trains in Italy.
http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.h...0trains%20like

Here's a close up of 2nd class. You can see there is plenty of room. The lady in the lower right corner has flipped her table leaf down for more table space. There is overhead storage for luggage plus storage areas at the end of the cars. There is also storage behind the seat (you can slide a large suitcase in here) and you can see no one is using that space in these photos (many people don't realize you can).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fr...ssainterno.jpg

@kybourbon - thanks for the reply. I guess I'll book through trenitalia.com then!

Good luck with trenitalia.com! Report back to see if their legendary problems have really been solved - like giving your credit card and then just nothing happening for a few days or more. Hopefully these are solved! Bourbon, who sincerely is a real expert on Trenitalia for sure IME, assures us they are so I would think so!

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Thanks to everyone for your useful info! I did book tickets on Trenitalia the other day w/o problem (except for the first try when my credit card company denied it). I was able to book 5 mini fare rates from Venice to Florence for 19 Euro! Regular price was 43 Euro I think. One thing, after I called my credit card company, I couldn't get this rate for about 45 minutes or so. Not sure why that happened, but then it came back. After that, absolutely no problem!! Good luck.