natjgc

Hi,

1. Where should we go in Vienna to
find birth snd death records
for our great grandparents?

2. Is it worth taking a 1/2 day
tour of Potsdam? We have 2 1/2
in Berlin and the tour is
included with our hotel. There
is so much else we can do so
we need to know if it's worth
taking the time.



Thanks, natjgc

tomboy

What country were they born in?
Do you know anything about them?
Do you know what their names actually were at the time of birth (not what you've been TOLD their names were)?
What local/US resources have you used?

natjgc

My great grandparents were born
in Czechoslovakia. I know their
names and I've used myancestry.com
and ellisisland.com and the Midwest
Geneology center and they have really been so helpful.
I still need to find out more info but the family I have left does not have much info.. Any ideas?

quokka

Which country did the place they were born belong to at that time? If they were born in Czechoslovakia you won't find their birth registers in Vienna. Did they die there, or why Vienna? You have to go to the place where they were born and died and check the civil registers and the church registers.

Dukey

Re a possible trip to Potsdam. IF you enjoy seeing palaces and their environs you would have two to choose from in Potsdam.

If those things don't appeal then I would suggest you do something else.

PalenQ

Potsdam's Sans Soucci Palace is the Prussian Versailles and one of the finest palaces in Europe IMO

and the sprawling park it sits in has many delights - other palaces like Dukey says and various weird old relics of the time when Prussian kings built it as a lavish rural retreat.

natjgc

Quokka,

It's true that it would be a different country at a different time. Then I found out from my mothers birth certificate that her parents ( my grandparents) were from Hungary. The town is supposedly 78 miles from Budapest.
Now were they born there, who knows but I always heard my mother talk about Vienna and told me that her twin uncles lived there.. I wish i knew more but when I was young I could care less.. Now I'm so interested for my children to know their roots and for myself too.

Thanks for the info on Potsdam.
I'm not sure we will do this now. Berlin might keep us busy.

tomboy

Holy smokes! It's July 9th and you're wondering how to look up this stuff on your trip this month?

I'd first suggest a one-night-stand at your local library, speed-reading about central European history. It would put a lot of stuff into context.

Czechoslovakia not longer exists, of course, ceasing its being in 1993. It began life in 1918. Prior to 1918, the land comprising C. was part of the country of Austria-Hungary, which incuded part of what now is Poland, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovak Republi, Austria, Hungary, part of Romania, part of Italy, most of all those countries that used to be Yugoslavia (hope I didn't leave anyone out).

So while they may have considered themselves Hungarian, they weren't necessarily born in what now is Hungary. Further, if they were born in Hungary, the Austrian government in Vienna might not be the place where the records are. "Austria" is just the first half of the name Austria-Hungary, and nothing more.

I write with some knowledge, as in the '80s I filed a request with the (then Communist) Czechoslovak embassy for some genealogical research on my great-grandfather. Like you, I expected that any result that might come would come from the capital, Prague. 9 months later, I received a fat envelope containing typewritten copies of records from the 'province' of Slovakia. Now, of course, the capital of Slovakia is Bratislava, but my envelope came from Poprad, a gritty town about as far away from Bratislava as one could go in Slovakia without getting into Poland or Ukraine. The records, in turn, had been copied from church records. Oh, and of course, the words were all in Slovak.

My point is that there's not a Mormon temple in these countries, with English-speaking staff just waiting for folks to give them some challenging tasks to research.

This doesn't even get into the communication aspect. Do you know the Hungarian word for genealogy? If so, can you pronounce it so that a Hungarian knows you mean "genealogy" and not "flypaper" or some other word that sounds similar in Hungarian? Yes, some people are multi-lingual, but some are not. And there are degrees of multi-lingualness. One could know the English word "genealogy" but not now the meaning of "2nd cousin once-removed".
This doesn't even broach the aspect of name integrity. My grandmother had 7 different spellings of her maiden name, that I know of. My grandfathers first name was John. Also Jon. Also Jan. Also Johann. Also Johannes. Also ....
If your ancestor was equally variably named, you must be prepared to realize that Jon on a birth record isn't necesarily YOUR Jon. And that Johannes on a birth record isn't necessarily NOT YOUR Jon. As a genealogist once pointed out to me, the government did not require immigration clerks on Ellis Island to have Harvard degrees. Nor did all immigrants know how to correctly spell their own names.

Well, enough rain for one parade. Hope your trip is enjoyable. You may have to make a second trip once you learn more of your ancestors. Hope this has been helpful

quokka

One point to add to tomboy's excellent and wise observations: Are you able to read the old handwriting if you are handed the original documents? This problem is worst and enormous in the German speaking world, but also not to be underestimated in other languages. The archive staff will not do this work for you, you'll have to deal with it on your own.

tomboy

Be prepared, too, to accept phonetic equivalents.
Imagine a semi-literate Hungarian comes to Ellis Island 130 years ago. Says his name is Kovacs, Ernie.

Immigration guy writes down First name: Kovash. Last name: Erney

Hungarian doesn't know what the guy wrote, nor how to tell the "system" in this new country about the error.

But his papers say, Kovash. What's easier to change, the US government, or one aspect of your brand new life? So, he tells his wife, "from now on, we're Kovash. Here's how they say it's spelled."

natjgc

I'm very aware that this is why people hire geneologists. Towns are spelled phonetically and it's very difficult to get information. i also know that if my grandparents were alive or if when my parents were alive they knew their family history it would be so much more informative. I also know that when
my grandfather on my dad's side came over to america from what was Lithawania, he had a thick accent and was I'm sure misunderstood. You are right that the immigrant officials were not able to understand the people and I'm sure were impatient trying to decipher
the broken English.
The Midwest Center ( Mormons) sent me a census record of my grandparents and it blew me away because I know this info was true.
i found out some interesting facts that my mother never told me like she lived in Brooklyn.

Our travel agent booked this tour for us, we have a very good idea of what we want to do in Germany. 21/2 days in Berlin is not alot so we have to eliminate someting and this might be it.
Tombo,
Are you suggesting we write to the Hungarian embassy to see if they can get records? i know I'm not really prepared but I didn't expect to find much in Vienna honestly.
Mu husband asked me to post this question.. natjgc

tomboy

I'm not sure where your people came from. If Hungary, I'd TELEPHONE the Hungarian Embassy, tell them you're going there and are interested in genealogy of an ancestor, and ask if someone could advise where the national archives are. If they know, maybe they'd even give you an e-mail address of the archives. Failiing that, maybe a church in the area of _____ town would still have records.

Wouldn't the Mormons know where the pre-1900 Hungarian records are?

natjgc

The Mormans only have information
from when my grandparents came over to America. At least for my case.
natjgc

quokka

The national archives won't have birth registers. You need the resp. city's or village's archives for that - meaning you'll first have to find out where exactly these people were born.
Such research cannot be done in a day or two.

natjgc

That's true. I've sent away for my grandparent's death certificates to the town where they died, I hope the town in Hungary will be mentioned in the dcoument but I wont count on it.. Its hard to really know unless you're told by a close relative who has the knowledge of the families roots.

BTilke

On our first visit to Salt Lake City, a friend and I went to the genealogy center there and found scant relevant information, even though both our families had extensive documents tracing our ancestors in Pennsylvania back to the early 1700s.

Quokka's point about old German writing is important. Many of our family writings are in that writing and I couldn't puzzle it out; fortunately my East Prussian father in law is a dab hand at it and he easily translated those early 18th century spidery handwritten documents for us.

quokka

BTilke - that point is crucial. Most first-timers in archives give up quickly because of the handwriting. It took me years to become fluent in reading old German handwriting back to the 16th century - an ability which now pays my rent, in fact. (No I don't do genealogy research, so this isn't advertising.)