Russ

PalenQ:

1. The passes might be a better deal than savings fares. The savings fares might not be worth the diminished flexibility - but there is no way for the OP to decide this rationally without an accurate cost comparison.

2. "...regional trains... are much slower and much less comfy than ICE trains." This is an irrelevant discussion. On some routes regional trains are the only choice... The RE to Regensburg is a whopping SEVEN minutes slower... And no one is trying to put the OP on a regional train for long-distance routes like FRA-Nuremberg, Nuremberg-Munich, or Nuremberg-Frankfurt - The OP has already indicated her preference for the high-speed trains. I am just trying to price ICE and IC rail tickets for the OP.

3. Flexibility: The VGN ticket option is totally flexible. The Bayern ticket is almost totally flexible. The OP may not require schedule "flexibility" at all for the long-distance IC/ICE routes since she is tightly scheduled.

We all understand how much you love railpasses. I don't. Nor do I dislike them. Like other tickets, they are just a tool for getting around that makes sense at times and at other times does not depending on the traveler's circumstances.

At this point I suspect that the OP's travel schedule is either a state secret or that she isn't interested in a cost comparison.

crckwc1

Russ,
I guess either I don't communicate effectively or perhaps there's a problem elsewhere. I certainly have no "state secret" and can't understand where that notion comes from unless it's because I didn't state which trip on which day. There's a reason for that: we want flexibility. Neither am I completely lacking in travel savvy although German rail travel isn't one of my fortes - hence, my questions on fodors. Here, in detail, (as far as I can determine at this point in time) is my itinerary:

AR FRA Dec. 5 - train to Nuremberg

undecided as to exact dates of train travel between Dec. 6 and Dec. 12 but will take at least 3 roundtrips from Nuremberg: to Munich, to Bamberg, and to Regensburg. We might take an additional roundtrip to Salzburg.

Dec. 12 - train to Frankfurt

Because of the possibility of bad weather, or just wanting to skip a day, I don't want to tie myself to a particular day or to a particular train for the trips out of Nuremberg, so a pass seems like a logical choice. However, if you can give me a price comparison for individual tickets (that can be purchased on the day of travel) and/or other passes that have the same flexibility, then I would be glad to compare price. While price is always a consideration for us, it isn't the only consideration. On this particular trip, flexibility is of equal importance to us.
K

Aramis

Perhaps the OP isn't quite as finicky as you, Russ, in wanting to sort out the various point-to-point discounts fares, Bayern ticket timing considerations, or going through the task of purchasing individual tickets.

We all understand how much you love the intricacies of scheduling, pricing, and pre-planning rail travel, but it's a little much to start getting passive aggressive on the OP because she isn't participating with you.

I think the OP gets the picture of the options available - let's leave them alone now to think..

Russ

Providing your arrival and departure dates makes a comparison possible.

"AR FRA Dec. 5 - train to Nuremberg"
I provided this fare already...

Day 1 - AR FRA - train to NUR: 112€ for 2 full-price tickets on ICE. (Good on any train for the same route day. Buy them whenever you like at a station ticket machine.)

"Because of the possibility of bad weather, or just wanting to skip a day, I don't want to tie myself to a particular day or to a particular train for the trips out of Nuremberg, so a pass seems like a logical choice. However, if you can give me a price comparison for individual tickets (that can be purchased on the day of travel) and/or other passes that have the same flexibility, then I would be glad to compare price."

I provided this information above as well...

"Day 2-7 - from NUR, train to Bamberg, Regensburg, Munich
Bamberg: 16.80 round trip(VGN Tagesticket plus)
Regensburg: 26€ (Bayern Ticket)" (Buy at the station from a ticket machine. Web info provided in previous post as well.)

But now that you have provided at least a time frame, I'd suggest doing Regensburg on either Saturday 12/7 or Sunday 12/8, if you have a choice, since the Bayern Ticket offers is valid at any hour for this trip. The 7:35 and 9:35 RE departures from N'berg to R'burg are direct trains and take 1 hour. Return RE trains at 17:19, 19:19, and 21:19 are also direct and take one hour. For Bamberg, the Tagesticket Plus works at any hour on any day; direct RE trains take about 45 min. each way.

That leaves o

"Dec. 12 - train to Frankfurt"

39€ savings fares (total for 2 adults, first class) available now at 2 pm, 3 pm, 5 pm for this 2-hr. ICE trip. Slightly higher at other hours. Or pay 106€ for the privilege of deciding your departure time on 12/12. But I imagine pinning down a time isn't too much trouble on this day since you have to go there.

That's 194€ so far for 2 without the Munich trip.

Munich: (Sample day Sunday) RE trains at 7:10, 9:10, 11:10 are direct and take 1.75 hrs. Return RE trains at 17:06, 19:06, 21:06 do the same. Bayern ticket is 26€ (7:10 departure not possible with BT on weekdays.) ICE trains take 1.25 hours but cost is 216€ if you require full flexibility for this one route.

(Salzburg daytrip? That's 6 hours on the train with the fastest options, perhaps more time than you'd have in Salzburg itself. If you're really serious about this, then get a railpass.)

So for the 5 days, you would spend, if you rode the direct RE train into Munich for that outing instead of the ICE, 220€ total for two ($298 vs. about $445 for the 7-day sale railpass.) Additional daytrips of reasonable distance near Nuremberg to places like Bayreuth, Bad Windsheim, Amberg, or Iphofen would be 16.80€/day, so for a 7-day to 7-day comparison, I guess your tickets total approaches $330. Whether the extra $115 for the railpass is worth it hinges on your feelings about using the RE train instead of the ICE train to Munich on that one day. Since German rail travel isn't your forte, I'll offer my own opinion that the RE trains are comfortable and just fine for a journey of less than 2 hours. I'm 60 and have less and less solid material between my pelvis and my seat of choice with every year, but I ride the REs all the time with no problem, often with my 60-year-old wife's backside right next to me. She likes them just fine too.

Russ

"I think the OP gets the picture of the options available - let's leave them alone now to think.."

I suggest you leave the OP alone if you wish, but since the OP has provided her travel dates, I've responded. No need to "shoosh" others, Aramis, or grace them with disparaging adjectives. If I'm finicky, it's about providing accurate information for travel decisions. Sue me.

crckwc1

Thank you Aramis and Russ. Tomorrow is another day. I'll sort through it all then.

PalenQ

ttt

PalenQ

If I'm finicky, it's about providing accurate information for travel decisions. Sue me.>

and kudos for Russ to continue to do so - folks can do what they want with the info that is so time-consuming to gather and Russ gladly does it - as the French would say 'Bravo'!

crckwc1

Russ, I do appreciate all your efforts in my behalf. It may be a couple of days before I can get back to this project, so don't think I've jumped ship.
K

Russ

crckwc1: Except for the Nuremberg-Frankfurt advance sale ticket price (39€ first class for certain departure times, which may climb since prices rise as tickets sell,) the prices I gave you should remain the same until you decide. The railpass price will remain the same through 12/5.

crckwc1

Russ - if you're still out there - or anyone else --
I notice there are two designations of train stations listed at Frankfurt airport, Fembf and Regionalbf. I'm wanting to go non-stop to Nuremberg. Both locations show trains to Nuremberg. Advice?

Russ

The Fernbahnhof sends off high-speed trains (IC, ICE, EC.) The Regionalbahnhof sends off local trains (RE, RB) and a few high-speed trains. With Nuremberg as a destination, the local trains typically take you from the Regionalbahnhof to Frankfurt's main station first, where you then change to a high-speed train.

Use Frankfurt(Main)Flugh for your start station and departures from both stations will turn up.

Based on what you said previously, I'm pretty sure you want only high-speed trains for this route - so you'll probably leave from the Fernbahnhof.

crckwc1

More thanks, Russ.

PalenQ

The Regionabahnhof or Lokalbahnhof as I trhink I recall seeing it labeled is the older airport train station right inside the terminals - the Fernbahnhof for long-distance trains is abougt a 10-minute walk beyond the Regionalbahnhof - thru passages just outside the main terminals.

crckwc1

Thanks, PalenQ
Sounds like I'll want the Fernbahnhof.
K

crckwc1

oops - neglected to say thanks to Russ! I'm working on it, Russ.

crckwc1

Another question: can the Bayern ticket(s) be purchased ahead of time (two or three days ahead) and validated on the day used? Or do we need to buy them on a daily basis?

Russ

Bayern ticket - It CAN be bought in advance but there isn't much point in doing so. 1.) You would be locking in your outing to Regensburg or wherever for a certain date when your goal is flexibility (weather, etc.) 2.) There is no discount for advance purchase - it's the same price at the ticket machine. 3.) The Bayern ticket cannot "sell out."

Nuremberg Hbf (main station) is a very busy place; IMO there's an insufficient number of ticket machines. I've found myself waiting in line there for several minutes. Not sure where you're staying in N'berg, but if not so close to Nuremberg Hbf, you could buy it from the driver as you board the bus or tram or whatever to the Hbf (The BT is good on ALL public transport.) If you're staying near the Hbf, you might stop by there at some non-peak hour on the day of travel, or prior to that, to get your ticket whenever it's convenient for you.

You validate the BT by writing your name on it, which you can do whenever as long as it's prior to boarding the train.

PalenQ

Yes on some Bavarian routes OP wants there are only regional trains - like to Fussen - but on others someone may take like to Salzburg or Nurnberg the ICE trains are much more comfortable and significantly fasters - you'd have two extra hours in Salzburg by taking the ICE trains and you could leave as early as you wish on weekdays.

crckwc1

Thanks PalenQ

Russ, We're staying at Best Western West, quite a way from Hbf, so good tip about purchasing elsewhere. So, the Bayern ticket is one ticket to a specific place, at a specific time, not a day-pass type ticket to anywhere in Bavaria?