Pegontheroad

I recently read in one of my innumerable WWII books (can't remember which one) that after WWII, France wanted to annex the Black Forest (Schwarzwald) as part of France.

I know that historically, Alsace-Lorraine had belonged to Germany after WWI and that it was annexed by France after WWII. A professor once explained to me that borders are often decided by geographical features, such as mountains or rivers, as well as by languages spoken in the area in question. Thus, France's Vosges mountains prevailed over Germany's Rhine River.

Somewhat different were the annexations for political reasons of eastern territory of Poland by Russia and the annexation of eastern territory in Germany by Poland after WWII.

However, I don't understand the legal or geographic basis that would have allowed France to annex the Black Forest. Revenge? Reparations? Does anybody know?

hetismij2

Alsace Lorraine went back to France after WW1. Germany annexed it in the Franco Prussian wars, based on language, not natural borders.
Even today German is commonly spoken by the residents.
I have never heard of France demanding the Black Forest, an area largely untouched by WW2.

Padraig

I suspect that there has been some confusion between Schwarzwald and Saarland.

massimop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Protectorate

Pegontheroad

I wish I could remember in which book I read this. I'll have to visit my recently read books to see if I can find it.

P.S. I know the difference between the Saar and the Schwarzwald. I spent a month in Staufen and visited other areas of the Black Forest. I don't recall having visited the Saar. It's an industrial region, isn't it?

I'm pretty sure my books it was the Schwarzwald they wanted to annex; I wouldn't have been surprised if it had said the Saar.

Whathello

Same. Alsace lorraine was French.
Got annexed by German in the disastrous 1870 war
Reclaimed by france after WW1.
Alsaciens wanted to come back to france.
Reclaimed as Reich territory in 1940. Resulting in alsatians being drafted in German army as ' malgré nous' - against our will.
Reunited with French in 1944.
The 'serment de Koufra' sworn by Leclerc inn41 in Africa was to not let down weapons before French flag hung from the pike of Strasbourg cathedral.
Never heard about annexing any part of Germany as reparation.
Belgium got some territories in 1918 as reparation. Not france.

marvelousmouse

I never heard of that either, but France may have just wanted it as a buffer zone rather than for its own merits, maybe?

kerouac

France occupied the Saarland from 1947 to 1956. In 1955 there was a referendum for the Saar to become independent or to become part of West Germany. It obviously voted to become part of West Germany (by 68%). From 1947 to 1959, the Saar used the Saar franc as its currency and had its own postage stamps. French is still promoted as the second language in the schools of the Saar while all of the rest of Germany promotes English as the second language.

kerouac

It should also be mentioned that "Saar-Lor-Lux" (Saar-Lorraine-Luxembourg) has become an official transnational entity comprised by the French departments of Moselle and Meurthe-et-Moselle, the German regions of Saarland and Rhineland-Palatinate, Luxembourg and Belgian Wallonia. All of the elements cooperate in various ways (or not) depending on their interests.

I have always found it amusing (since it is <b>my</b> region) that it shares quite equally all of the "big" rock concerts (Rolling Stones, Coldplay, U2 or whatever) between the cities of Metz, Saarbrücken, Trier and Luxembourg since none of them would be a sufficient draw separately, and transportation is organized between the various cities for these events.

lavandula

Was the Schwarzwald or parts thereof part of the lands annexed by the French during the French Revolution? Because I know they took the left bank of the Rhine, so Mainz and Koblenz were under French rule for some time, and Mainz was the first republic declared in German territory. The Prussians conquered the state and recaptured it but it came under French control again in 1795. Historical precedent of that kind seems to me a reason why France might have wanted the Schwarzwald, but I am too fuzzy on the details. I know also Freiburg im Breisgau was annexed by the French at some periods in history too, but long before WWII.

Lavandula

massimop

Think this is the source of the confusion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzwalder_Hochwald