isabel

I have the Andrews Federal Credit Union chip and pin card and while it works in most places in Europe (have had it a few years now) it did not work in train stations in the Netherlands. So don't count on those always working.

Why can't you just get a bunch of euro coins?

Andrew

Interesting, Isabel - my Andrews Visa (don't have one anymore) did work at the NS machine in Schiphol in 2015 to buy a train ticket. There's no reason it shouldn't work.

tom_mn

>>I really don't think a PIN used for ATM withdrawals is going to work for purchases - don't count on it. I'd bet against it.

We've done it, but not in the Netherlands. Worked in Copenhagen and Paris for the metros. Although I have read sometimes 0000 or even nothing will work for a PIN for the card to go through.

dweislaw

One word of experience from our time in Rotterdam last summer. We were dropped off by our taxi at (what I suppose is) the "back" entrance to Centraal. Fortunately, a station employee helped us as there were only turnstiles requiring tickets/travel cards which you could use to enter the station on that side. He then pointed us on our way across the station to the other side where the service desk sold tickets. We bought our fast train tickets to the airport (using cash), with the sales clerk making sure we understood there was a service charge (about 2 Euro if I remember correctly) to book the fast train. I thought it was somewhat charming that she had to make sure we knew we were paying this tiny premium for a faster service. As usual the train service was fast, clean and on time.

Andrew

tom_mn: <i>
>>I really don't think a PIN used for ATM withdrawals is going to work for purchases - don't count on it. I'd bet against it.

We've done it, but not in the Netherlands. Worked in Copenhagen and Paris for the metros. Although I have read sometimes 0000 or even nothing will work for a PIN for the card to go through.</i>

I suspect the PIN wasn't used at all on your card, just as with my Chase Visa card that doesn't even have a PIN and still worked in most of the machines I used it in, without any PIN. On the NS machine at Schiphol, the card was rejected, but my chip and PIN card worked fine.

Mimar

As I understand it, even if you have a pin for your US chip card, it's still signature first and won't work in European machines: ticket machines, toll booths, unstaffed gas stations, unstaffed parking garage exits. However a very few CUs and banks(?) in the US do issue chip and pin-first cards. Debit cards? Credit cards?

Am I correct? Can somebody list those US institutions that offer chip and pin-first cards?

Andrew

No, that is not quite correct, Mimar. Some US institutions (like my credit union) do indeed issue true chip and PIN credit cards. I used mine last year in Europe only a few times, but once was at a convenience store where I would normally have had to sign a slip from the clerk, but instead I used my PIN like the Europeans do.

The Andrews Visa card is not a true chip and PIN - it's kind of a hybrid. When there is no human involved, you can use your PIN; if there's a human involved like a clerk, it will request a signature like a non-PIN card. I used an Andrews Visa on several trips to Europe and it worked everywhere I tried to use it (though not to buy fuel from machines).

MOST US credits still are not chip and PIN, though.

Still, many non-PIN credit cards will work in machines as long as they have the chip. I used my Chase Visa card at ticket machines in numerous cities to buy bus and train tickets and museum tickets without needing a PIN, and I used one to pay highway tolls in Croatia.

Only a few machines (e.g. the NS ticket machines in the Netherlands) did not accept my Chase non-PIN Visa.

So there are a few machines where you MUST have a chip and PIN card (even the Andrews Visa will work) - but at many machines in Europe, just having a chip in your card is sufficient.

Andrew

If you want a chip and PIN card, the easiest thing to do most likely is get the Andrews Federal Credit union Visa card. Not all credit unions allow any random person to join automatically but there's often a loophole - you may have to join some other group (free or a small one-time fee). I joined a consumer advocacy group for free and then was able to join Andrew's FCU and get their Visa. I don't think you can do that anymore, but you can easily find out out to join. It should be pretty easy with a few minutes of googling.

My Andrews Visa worked great. Needing to sign a slip when people were involved was not a problem, because I was able to use the PIN at machines. I only got rid of the Andrews Visa because I got another one from my primary credit union - one less card to worry about.

tom_mn

Mimar: Nothing is standard, there's no way to predict what will happen in some situations. Just have a few cards.

menachem

anyway, Reading54, if you get stuck in Rotterdam, just shout out and I'll hop on my bike to Central Station.

crefloors

I just got my credit card replaced and I didn't get a PIN for it. I was told by the customer service rep that I could set a pin, the card could be used at ATM machines and interest accrued from the time I took the draw. There is NO grace period with that card, Capital One, for cash withdrawals.

I use my debit card for cash from ATM, credit union so not exchange fees, and always have a hundred or so Euros with me. I use my credit card for other purchases. It has the chip but as I said, no PIN. My credit union debit care has both chip and pin so would thing that would work for most machines, however one never knows.

Andrew

Are you sure your credit union doesn't offer a chip and PIN credit card like mine does (and other credit unions do)?

xyz123

It is a complicated issue and not worth going though all the history and reasoning of the USA banks. The vast majority of cards being issued today in the USA (they all will have the emv chip) do not make provisions for use of a pin on purchases. For the most part, this is the decision made by the big credit card banks such as Chase, Citi, Wells Fargo, Capital One. They will give you a pin for use in ATM's which as noted are usually very expensive but the card is set up in such a way that no provision is made for the pin to access a kiosk. Some banks issue cards that while defaulting to use of a signature at point of sales terminals where a human being is there to process the card, they will work in a kiosk by asking for a pin. Examples are the Barclaybank cards, Andrews FCU. There are even a couple of US banks, 3 to be exact at this point in time, which will always ask for a pin. They are UNFCU, First Tech FCU and upon request State Department FCU.

While there is certainly no harm in requesting a pin, as noted, most of the time they will not work in kiosks such as operated by NS the Dutch National Railroad. For them not to accept cards lacking pin capability is a violation of mastercard/visa regulations which I am sure is of little benefit to you when your card is not accepted. I have complained to mc and visa about this and they have a form letter saying they are looking into this and have done nothing to achieve compliance by NS.

The good news is that while there are other place where US credit cards lacking pin capabilities in kiosks will not be accepted, the vast majority of places are in compliance with the visa/mc rules. The only thing I can suggest is to continue to complain to mc/visa but I wouldn't hold my breath that they intend to do anything to see that merchants obey their rules.