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PUGLIA.......GARGANO PENINSULA--Vieste? *OR* LECCE and the south?

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PUGLIA.......GARGANO PENINSULA--Vieste? *OR* LECCE and the south?

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Old Jun 14th, 2009, 11:10 AM
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PUGLIA.......GARGANO PENINSULA--Vieste? *OR* LECCE and the south?

I am thinking far ahead here, but please bear with me. I've always wanted to visit Puglia and, after reading some spectacular reports here, have set my sights on a week-long trip, probably next May.

This is a very large region with much to see. Too much to include in 7 days!

So, I have to eliminate some destinations and need help. Please!

Having spent a wonderful 5 days in Amalfi last spring, I originally liked the idea of spending time in or near Vieste, eating great seafood, doing short daytrips by car, poking around the little port towns. I even thought of spending the entire week here, but there are so many other tempting destinations.... (I also wonder if Vieste will come as a disappointment after the splendors of both the Amalfi and the Ligurian coasts, which I visited recently. )

The dilemma, however, is that the Vieste area is quite far from the other places of interest for a first-time visitor to Puglia. We only have one week, and our flights from the US involve connections.

Should I skip the Gargano on this trip, and plan a visit when we have more time, or can devote the entire week to this area? Eliminating the Gargano makes it much easier to plan an itinerary that places us within an easy drive of the airport on our first, and last, nights. On the other hand, keeping the Gargano in the plan would probably mean leaving out Lecce. I would love to hear more about the Gargano..I realize that this is not a popular area with posters here but I know some of you have visited recently...


How would you allot 7 nights, including: Matera (I know this is not in Puglia but it sounds fascinating); Lecce OR Gargano; and a third destination--a wonderful masseria near Ostuni, or Martina Franca?? (As far as the masseria/ie, we would like one close enough to a town so that we can explore restaurants out of the hotel. Swimming pool/beach access is a plus--is it warm enough to swim in May?)

I was thinking 2 nights in Matera. Do you agree? The consensus seems to be that staying in the town is preferable to a daytrip..

What about Lecce? If we include the city in the plan---Three nights?

We can fly into Bari or Brindisi. (I considered flying into Rome but the drive is too far for us to do after having flown all night; do not want to waste the precious time with the train to Foggia and an overnight there..)

Finally, I want to keep the driving to a minimum..hopefully no more than 2 hours at a stretch.

Many thanks!!
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Old Jun 14th, 2009, 12:40 PM
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I cannot be of much help, since I have not been all over Puglia. I have been to Lecce, and I cannot imagine anything in that area that would be worth missing it for. It out-baroques baroque, which is why they had to come up with Lecce-baroque. Don't miss the cemetery (if you have time after the main churches) - it's not as good as or as famous as Milan's, but it is still pretty amazing. I would also recommend the little towns of Nardo, Copertina, Galatone and Gallipoli - again if you have time. They are quite close together along one road. Nardo has a fine structure in the middle of the town, and a cool motto : Tauro non bovi, i.e bull not ox (just in case some readers may not understand, an ox is a castrated bull). Otranto has a spectacular church, with mosaic floor and chapel with cupboards full of skulls. I would think that swimming in May would be possible. Check out weather reports for the area - I'm sure you could find sea temperatures.
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Old Jun 14th, 2009, 01:55 PM
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Bert: Thanks very much. It would appear that one could spend an entire week in the immediate area of Lecce. For my own purposes, I think that I have to make a decision whether to concentrate on the north and center, or the south and center. You certainly make a good case for the latter!


Matera seems to work best with a Puglia itinerary, rather than one beginning in Campania..so I have included it in the "hope to visit" category. It is only an hour from Bari airport, so could perhaps be the first, or the last, stop, if we fly into, and out of, Bari.
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 12:03 AM
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If you have seen my trip report on this board, you will know we did the area of Puglia, including Matera, in 11 days. Since you have only one week I would suggest staying in Trani or that area Northern Puglia) for part of the time, and Lecce, or that area (Southern Puglia) for the second part. In between you will not be too far away from either to do day trips to the "middle" section which will include Matera, Martina Franca, Conversano, etc. We did not do Gargano area so cannot comment but as said above, I would NOT miss Lecce.
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 02:35 AM
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Thanks, Flame! OF COURSE I read your report! In fact, your report is one of those that convinced me to begin thinking about this trip! I just ordered the LP guide to Puglia/Basilicata, so will also read that soon and try to work up a plan. You did a lot of driving on certain days, and I wanted to keep this to a minimum, so I was thinking of 3 bases..but I think I will have to leave out Gargano, if I want to see Lecce...difficult choices!
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 04:25 AM
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Hi ekscrunchy. The Salento (Lecce, Gallipoli, Otranto, Copertina, Santa Maria de Leuca) is also my favorite area of Puglia. Ostuni and Martina Franca are nice, but I don't think they compare. The nice thing is that in May, you will have very few tourists in the area and can truly enjoy these beautiful baroque towns and goegeous beaches without the hordes. Unless it is unusually cold weather next year, swimming in May is not a problem. Matera (in neighboring Basilicata) is beautiful and deserves a visit - quite easy from southern Puglia. Stay in a hotel in the old town (the sassi), not in the "modern" town of Matera. We liked the simple, but pretty Sassi hotel. Early breakfast on the terrace overlooking the caves is a fantastic experience. One night/two full days would also be sufficient to see it well. Yes, fly to Brindisi. You are talking about a 6-hour drive from Rome (without factoring in traffic), wheras Brindisi is less that 1 hour (easy driving, little traffic) from Lecce. Buon viaggio!
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 05:09 AM
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ttt
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 06:46 AM
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Romana: Thanks! The more I read (and I have not even begun the new guidebook from LP) the more I realize how large this region is and how much there is to see. Otranto has caught my eye. I know that many people see this town as a day trip from Lecce, but now I have the thought of of staying a night or two and then moving on to Lecce.

Please keep in mind that I am trying to keep the annoyance/stress factor low for my partner's sake. And so I really want to minimize the driving in and out of these small, confusing towns; this confusion has been mentioned by several people in their reports and it is a little off-putting. (I mention this in regard to using Lecce as a base for daytrips)

I would love to read people's impressions of Otranto...small, charming seaport? There seem to be some attractive masserie just outside the town, as well as some nice looking properties within the town.
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 09:03 AM
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Speaking of the Salento, these driving/biking routes might interest any one planning a visit; in Italian but there are decent maps:



http://www.ilcorallo1.com/salentoarcheologia.htm
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 12:14 PM
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Glad that I was part of the catalyst for your upcoming trip ekscrunchy!!! We visited Otranto as a day trip and loved it. If you visit, make sure to see the beautiful mosaic floor in the church, which is open at very limited hours. As you know we were also there in May and it was fabulous and perfect weather and NO or at least very little tourists. Even the Italians are "tourists" there much later in the season.

As for driving long distances, I believe the only long distance was from Rome to Trani at the beginning and maybe once in Lecce we did a long drive along and around the "heel". Other than that I cannot think of long drives we did. That is really why we chose three base "camps" so that driving would be of the mimimum.

Happy planning !!!
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 12:30 PM
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As a huge fan of the Gargano, I will make a case for including it. Often overlooked, it is very beautiful with Vieste just the beginning of the delights (have you seen the Isole Tremiti?)

But then I also love Ostuni, Alberobello and the trullis of Puglia, Lecce and Cisternino...this is a different Italy. May is a great month to go as the water will be warm enough to swim but you will have the beaches much to yourself.

For a great base that is central and would permit you to see all of Puglia if you didn't mind the driving, check out the website for Masseria San Martino.
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Flame: Are you kidding? Your report is probably the one that pushed me right to the edge! Even when I first read it, I knew I wanted to follow in some of your footsteps!

You are a brave driver, though. For us, a drive of 2 hours is long! It is not that I mind being in the car, but I do not want my partner to spend so much time driving under the kind of conditions people have described as existing in southern Italy..what we really hate is driving in and out of the cities/large towns. Actually, I do not want to provoke criticisms of my navigation skills!

I am having lots of fun scoping out all the great-looking places to stay! I wish this could be a month in Puglia, instead of 7 days!

I am going to come back and ask many more questions, so duck out while you still can!!
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Old Jun 15th, 2009, 12:56 PM
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ekscrunchy - first of all, ask ALLLLLL the questions your little heart desires, I will be MORE than happy to try and help.

Second, believe it or not, this was only my second time out driving in a foreign country but I do admit that I am a good driver.

Third, I don't know what people have told you but driving in and out of southern Puglia towns are not like driving in and out of larger cities. That's for sure. I felt completely comfortable driving into the outside gates of the cities, parking the car, and walking around inside. I would NOT try driving inside the small walled old towns, but then again, I don't think you were planning to either right?

Don't be mistaken - Puglia driving is not like Amalfi and Positano type mountainous treacherous type driving. It is all flat and while some of the city roads are not paved well, that is about all the "trouble" we had regarding roads and driving.

Re a month in Puglia, that would be great too. However if you could just try and extend your trip by 3 days, let's say, you could easily do everything we did, and maybe more.
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Old Jun 16th, 2009, 03:42 AM
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Flame: Thank you, thank you! I will take you up on your offer to answer many questions!

No, we did not plan to drive inside the towns. You have reassured me a bit about the driving issue. Unfortunately, I do not think we can expend the trip by even one more day. This makes it difficult to work around, but my new guidebook is on the way so I will do my best to come up with a plan and "show" it to you, and others here, for approval!

I think the Gargano has dropped out of the running, due to time limitations. Trani, too, may just be too out of the way in the wrong direction; hopefully we could go back someday and combine those two destinations.

So I am thinking about splitting the time between the Ostuni/Martina Franca area; Matera; and the Lecce area, probably the city of Lecce itself, although Otranto is also calling my name!

If anyone has a favorite masseria, with pool, please recommend!

The one you stayed at, Flame, looks nice and has a pool, but your reviews were a bit mixed. How easy is it to drive to restaurants from there at night?

http://www.montepaolo.it/en/

Here is another one I marked--anyone have comments on this, or on any others?


http://www.masseriamontalbano.it/



About Matera: I know that this city can be visited on a daytrip, but an overnight stay in one of the sassi hotels sounds fascinating. I was thinking about making Matera our first stop, since it is not too far from Bari airport, but am concerned that things will be closed on Sunday (our first night) and Monday morning. I want to explore the "new" city as well as the sassi. (Interested in food shopping and markets, as well as the passegiata).

Is it "worth it" in terms of time, on a week-long trip, to devote an overnight to Matera?
Does anyone know about weekly closings in that city?
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Old Jun 16th, 2009, 11:40 AM
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Your idea about leaving Gargano and Trani area for another time, given that you cannot extend your vacation, sounds reasonable. And your new plans to do the Matera, ostuni, martina Franca and Lecce areas instead is marvelous. I believe you will have enough time to see them quite properly.

As to Monte Paolo where we stayed just outside Conversano, the mixed review was just because we had read about how friendly the proprietess is, and she was just not there most of the time we spent, and when she was, she was just not gushing with friendliness. But I have learned, the hard way, that the chemistry that some people have with others, i.e. the click, does not always work for everyone. My other "complaint" was that since we were there pretty much before the "season" began, there were not many other people, in fact we were the only ones there for some of our nights, and so the dinners that were served to us were not always the greatest. On nights when they were hosting small private dinners, we got the same food as the private diners did and so it was much much better. This answers your other question about ease of driving to restaurants in the evening - we just did not. I wanted to stay in this place particularly also because they offered a very reasonably priced dinner. This way, I could drink wine with my meal and not have to drive back on small dark country roads, which is what this would have entailed.

When in Trani, for instance, we stayed in the city so did not have to drive anywhere for dinner, but did each in various restaurants, and again so I was able to have my wine with dinner and not have to drive back to a hotel.

In Lecce, we again stayed outside the city but had a great recommendation for a small tratorria from our proprietor and so went there just about every day for a meal!!
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Old Jun 16th, 2009, 12:43 PM
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Oh, I've just seen this thread, ekscrunchy. It sounds like you are leaning toward Lecce and the south. Is that definite or are you still deciding?
Having just been to both areas, Gargano and Lecce, I can only say it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. You can't go wrong either way.
I like your idea of two nights in Matera. Given that you have already decided on that - and I would heartily recommend the Hotel Caveoso, room 6 or 7, with the spectacular views - that leaves you 5 days for the remainder of the trip. I haven't posted pictures yet, but I will try to do so soon.

If you do the Gargano - and I have to say I was a little more partial to that area than the south - you'd have time to visit the Tremiti Islands. I believe the regular boat service from Vieste begins in May, so unfortunately I just missed it. So if the islands in your plans, be sure that you go at a time when there is regular boat service.
I know you read my trip report, where I listed some of the main attractions in that area: Monte St. Angelo, the Foresta Umbra, and Vieste is the city I would recommend staying in or near. There are also boat tours of the grottoes near Vieste. We'll assume you are going to have beautiful weather, and I was told that "the first swim" in Puglia is usually right around Easter, so you'd be able to enjoy the water activities.

If you were to do the Gargano, then flying into Bari is best. From there you can easily reach Matera in a little more than an hour so you'd have at least a day and a half there. If you had more time, I'd even suggest 3 nights. I stayed two and felt I could have stayed longer, but 2 will be fine.

If you drive from Matera to the Gargano, you'd stop at Castel del Monte for a few hours. It was one of my favorite sites in all of Puglia. I missed Trani, but I know that Flame loved it and that's along the way too.

If you decided on the Lecce area, there's plenty to see there. I think I mentioned that I really did not see much of the city of Lecce, due to being there on two days when everything was closed - Liberation Day, followed by Sunday. But I know there's plenty to see there. I did a day trip to Otranto and it was a very lively, interesting city, so if you're interested in staying there, that's a possibility, too.
There's the coastal drive to Santa Maria de Leuca, which is really beautiful.

Be forewarned - the coastline is not as breathtakingly beautiful as Amalfi, but it is quite lovely. Puglia has a gentle, quiet beauty, both in the countryside and along the coast and it is very pleasing. I have been to most parts of Italy and I was not disappointed in Puglia at all. So don't try to compare it with other parts of Italy. Just take it for what it is and I don't think you'll be disappointed.

You asked about masserias. I had booked the Masseria LaRascina, which looks lovely on the website. It's just outside Ostuni. And the owners were very gracious in all of our communications. That's the place I cancelled when I met up with my relatives, but if I were to return I would try to stay there. Just google it and you'll come up with the website. I don't have it handy.

I have to get back to work now. Feel free to ask any questions. Ciao for now, and I'm glad you're getting to do this trip.
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Old Jun 16th, 2009, 12:46 PM
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P.S. Masseria LaRascina has a pool.
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Old Jun 16th, 2009, 01:36 PM
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Panecott: Thank you so very much! Yes, yours was one of the reports that got me going on this idea! I cannot convey to you how much help you have given me so far. And now you have also given me yet another gorgeous possibility for lodgings near Ostuni! La Rascina looks idyllic! I have to check out how far it is from restaurants..

http://www.larascina.it/

Although the Gargano was the first area that initially attracted me, I am leaning toward giving it up this time for a few reasons. First of all, if we do end up with bad weather, it will not be so delightful to take in all of the scenery and the beaches. ( I had such terrible weather in Piedmont, around the same time that you were in Puglia!) Of course there is no guarantee, but in the unlikely even that the weather is poor, there may be more to do around the center and southern areas. One other important issue is that the Gargano (Vieste) is much further from the airport, which would mean a long drive on the first day, after the 2 plane flights. So I was thinking that maybe we would leave that for another time, maybe in June and maybe when we have a bit more time.

But all plans are still in the making, so I could be convinced either way. A Gargano/Trani trip sounds tempting...maybe add Matera to that? You can see I am vacillating between the two regions!!

Hopefully I will receive my new guidebook tomorrow and then you can be sure that I will come back with heaps of additional questions. I just wanted to thank you both, again, for all the help you have offered me thus far..

You can bet I will be back soon!
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Old Jun 17th, 2009, 06:31 AM
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Great, ekscrunchy. Just ask away, and you're very welcome. I'm glad to be of any help.

BTW, I just noticed your question on closings in Matera. I do know that restaurants in the sassi are closed on Mondays - as I learned the hard way. But the ones in the new town are open. They seem to alternate days. I guess it depends on exactly where in the sassi you stay, but from the Hotel Caveoso it was very easy to walk up to the new town. The main piazza was right at the top of the road leading to the sassi. So that shouldn't be a problem.
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Old Jun 17th, 2009, 06:40 AM
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This is very helpful, Panecott. Thanks again--I ordered the LP guidebook but with all the help I am receiving here, I hardly need it! I have marked down the Caveoso for further investigation!

On a related note:

Did you happen to read the recent article in Saveur magazine about Basilicata? There is a lot of coverage of Matera and the author discusses both the new town and the sassi area.



Also, did you happen to see this article from the NY Times Travel magazine?

http://travel.nytimes.com/indexes/20...Name=21materaw
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