Public Transportation in Vienna: Borderline Organized Crime
Feb 5th, 2016, 06:34 AM
#21
suec1 and PalenQ the OP's story doesn't add up, especially because the current fine for traveling with an unvalidated ticket is €103 (I forgot to add that it my original response), and not the €200 the OP indicated. Violators are given the option to pay in cash, or to submit the fine within 3 days via post. Either they are a troll, or they were scammed.
Feb 5th, 2016, 07:25 AM
#22
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Fourtravel.. perhaps she said 200 euros because there were TWO of them.. so that would be 200 euros.. duh.
I think some of you are being a bit rude, and frankly almost condescending.. for instance "ask the concierge at your hotel".. lol .. that's rich, like everyone stays in hotels with concierges .. or even desk clerks that speak English..
First off.. you weren't there .. perhaps the ticket man DID yell at her.. he may have been having a bad day.. didn't like Indian ladies , whatever.. you do not know.. and when someone is "talking" to you in a foreign language it can seem more aggressive then it really is( I consider German to be one of those languages, it often sounds like my German ex sil is angry and meanwhile she is just saying pass the butter, )
Secondly, she gets no financial benefit if you don't go to Vienna.. so its not like when a poster comes on and is a restaurant owner and posts some fake rant about a competitors restaurants hoping to swing business his own way.
She has no motive for lieing about this incident at all. .she is just venting.
Her perceptions may be wrong.. but calling her basically a liar and a troll.
Baloney.
I think some of you are being a bit rude, and frankly almost condescending.. for instance "ask the concierge at your hotel".. lol .. that's rich, like everyone stays in hotels with concierges .. or even desk clerks that speak English..
First off.. you weren't there .. perhaps the ticket man DID yell at her.. he may have been having a bad day.. didn't like Indian ladies , whatever.. you do not know.. and when someone is "talking" to you in a foreign language it can seem more aggressive then it really is( I consider German to be one of those languages, it often sounds like my German ex sil is angry and meanwhile she is just saying pass the butter, )
Secondly, she gets no financial benefit if you don't go to Vienna.. so its not like when a poster comes on and is a restaurant owner and posts some fake rant about a competitors restaurants hoping to swing business his own way.
She has no motive for lieing about this incident at all. .she is just venting.
Her perceptions may be wrong.. but calling her basically a liar and a troll.
Baloney.
Feb 5th, 2016, 07:33 AM
#23
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I hate people who come here to rant about this or that scam as much as anyone, but it does seem to me that posters here like to deny that anything unpleasant can ever happen to you IF you are as smart/prepared/experienced/well-behaved as they themselves always, always are in their travels.
I agree that this story sounds off, but the lesson I take from it is, make sure you remember that many European transit systems require this "validation" rigamarole. They are antiquated systems, and no country can afford to overhaul them.
I agree that this story sounds off, but the lesson I take from it is, make sure you remember that many European transit systems require this "validation" rigamarole. They are antiquated systems, and no country can afford to overhaul them.
Feb 5th, 2016, 07:38 AM
#24
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Oh, and I will add a rant of my own.
I do think ticket inspectors in most countries( this type of complaint is not unique to Vienna ) could learn to be a bit nicer to tourists who screw up. Many times they have indeed purchased tickets .. but have not validated them correctly.. they are not showing any intent to rip off system, but can be treated like crimminals.
I live in a touristy city.. and we give cars with out of province license plates courtesy warning parking tickets in our touristy area, because the areas markings can be a bit confusing, so we UNDERSTAND that..
I know in big cities millions of folks are apparently trying to scam the city out of their ticket revenue.. but really it would be nice in some cases if ticket inspectors seemed to display some common sense and compassion , and "forgave " a few times. Sometimes its pretty darn obvious there was no intent to deceive or cheat, but a misunderstanding was the cause of problem.
In this case the inspector could have easily seen when ticket was purchased by scanning numbers, and perhaps thouth" hmm.. they got this ticket 5 minutes ago.. they are likely not trying to ride for 4 days on a two day ticket "
I do think ticket inspectors in most countries( this type of complaint is not unique to Vienna ) could learn to be a bit nicer to tourists who screw up. Many times they have indeed purchased tickets .. but have not validated them correctly.. they are not showing any intent to rip off system, but can be treated like crimminals.
I live in a touristy city.. and we give cars with out of province license plates courtesy warning parking tickets in our touristy area, because the areas markings can be a bit confusing, so we UNDERSTAND that..
I know in big cities millions of folks are apparently trying to scam the city out of their ticket revenue.. but really it would be nice in some cases if ticket inspectors seemed to display some common sense and compassion , and "forgave " a few times. Sometimes its pretty darn obvious there was no intent to deceive or cheat, but a misunderstanding was the cause of problem.
In this case the inspector could have easily seen when ticket was purchased by scanning numbers, and perhaps thouth" hmm.. they got this ticket 5 minutes ago.. they are likely not trying to ride for 4 days on a two day ticket "
Feb 5th, 2016, 07:39 AM
#25
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We've heard this story about Vienna and transit cops several times - I suppose all of them were trolls? Of course I guess.
Let this be a warning to others however and take something positive out of it. There is no free ride in Europe - well not normally.
Even Europeans can make this mistake - French friends of mine went to Basel and said that the trams there were free - they saw no one buying any tickets or having any (all probably had transit passes) and they assumed it was free - so it is not just Americans that can be kind of clueless - there is NO free ride.
Let this be a warning to others however and take something positive out of it. There is no free ride in Europe - well not normally.
Even Europeans can make this mistake - French friends of mine went to Basel and said that the trams there were free - they saw no one buying any tickets or having any (all probably had transit passes) and they assumed it was free - so it is not just Americans that can be kind of clueless - there is NO free ride.
Feb 5th, 2016, 07:57 AM
#26
justine, I accept that I did not account for her husband. I accept that German is a scary-sounding language. Even after four years in country I still panic at times when I don't understand something being spoken to me. Still...
Who decided the OP was Indian? And what difference does that make?
If the OP is as travel-savvy as she claims to be, the English language ticket machines and the bright blue validation boxes at EVERY approach to an U-Bahn platform should have clued her in.
The main point is that no ticket officer would attempt to fine someone whilst standing on a platform, or threatened with police action unless their own behavior had been untoward. One can loiter all day on the U-Bahn platforms without need for a ticket. The story just doesn't add up.
Who decided the OP was Indian? And what difference does that make?
If the OP is as travel-savvy as she claims to be, the English language ticket machines and the bright blue validation boxes at EVERY approach to an U-Bahn platform should have clued her in.
The main point is that no ticket officer would attempt to fine someone whilst standing on a platform, or threatened with police action unless their own behavior had been untoward. One can loiter all day on the U-Bahn platforms without need for a ticket. The story just doesn't add up.
Feb 5th, 2016, 08:14 AM
#27
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Sorry.. should explain my reference to OP being Indian was taken from another poster ( traveler1959) assumption.. so is not valid. Just read through thread too quickly.
Sandralist posts that OPs post will likely not deter anyone with plans to visit Vienna.. and I agree. BUT it will serve the purpose of making anyone who read this post ( and with its provoking many will click on it just to see whats this is all about) and will at least learn to be more aware or careful when using foreign public transport. So, really its a useful post in its own way.
Sandralist posts that OPs post will likely not deter anyone with plans to visit Vienna.. and I agree. BUT it will serve the purpose of making anyone who read this post ( and with its provoking many will click on it just to see whats this is all about) and will at least learn to be more aware or careful when using foreign public transport. So, really its a useful post in its own way.
Feb 5th, 2016, 09:31 AM
#28
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It's possible that the transit authorities had a bad day and over reacted (not in the fine but in yelling).
However, it's also possible that the OP (who complained about how awful Vienna was overall and how rude everyone was) started out with an attitude problem. Or when told about the fine instead of apologizing and paying went off into some rant as s/he did above. If you abuse public officials in any country they are not going to be likely to cut you any slack. (How would you expect transit officials to feel abut people cheating the transit system who, when caught, go off into some tirade about how this is a trick to cheat tourists? Possibly with raised voices and multiple accusations.)
I suspect that some of this may be cultural differences in terms of how to approach this type of situation, what is appropriate reaction, how to be polite to officials, following the rules rather than expecting a much looser structure.
I know when my parents traveled the US after retiring they ran into many foreign visitors and said they they noticed significant differences in terms of how some people followed rules (standing on line, waiting one's turn, trying to push ahead, etc) and how politely they treated whoever was organizing the tour/activity.
I noticed the same thing with a Japanese tour group some of the members of which seemed to be so terrified of being parted from their group that they tried to elbow their way to the front of a single line, pushing others out of the way. In that case, the attendant at the one elevator pushed them to the back of the line to take their proper turn. I can imagine some of them writing a post similar to the above.
However, it's also possible that the OP (who complained about how awful Vienna was overall and how rude everyone was) started out with an attitude problem. Or when told about the fine instead of apologizing and paying went off into some rant as s/he did above. If you abuse public officials in any country they are not going to be likely to cut you any slack. (How would you expect transit officials to feel abut people cheating the transit system who, when caught, go off into some tirade about how this is a trick to cheat tourists? Possibly with raised voices and multiple accusations.)
I suspect that some of this may be cultural differences in terms of how to approach this type of situation, what is appropriate reaction, how to be polite to officials, following the rules rather than expecting a much looser structure.
I know when my parents traveled the US after retiring they ran into many foreign visitors and said they they noticed significant differences in terms of how some people followed rules (standing on line, waiting one's turn, trying to push ahead, etc) and how politely they treated whoever was organizing the tour/activity.
I noticed the same thing with a Japanese tour group some of the members of which seemed to be so terrified of being parted from their group that they tried to elbow their way to the front of a single line, pushing others out of the way. In that case, the attendant at the one elevator pushed them to the back of the line to take their proper turn. I can imagine some of them writing a post similar to the above.
Feb 5th, 2016, 10:08 AM
#30
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But there have been more than a few complaints aired here about Vienna and this over the years.
Long ago I got a small fine for jay walking across a deserted street in Vienna - kind of amused me but if it has been 100 euros or so would have enraged me.
a warning to tourists and charging a small fine would be in the best interest of Vienna.
Long ago I got a small fine for jay walking across a deserted street in Vienna - kind of amused me but if it has been 100 euros or so would have enraged me.
a warning to tourists and charging a small fine would be in the best interest of Vienna.
Feb 5th, 2016, 10:46 AM
#31
"a warning to tourists and charging a small fine would be in the best interest of Vienna."
Why? Why should tourists come to Vienna and expect to be cut slack? When I "visit the neighbors" in CZ, SK, HU and elsewhere, should I be allowed to get away with not researching the local transit protocols? Is that not part of travel? The Wiener Linien website clearly articulates the transit card protocol. On two occasions I have found myself in violation of the protocols (failure to muzzle DDog while on a train/tram/bus): I was once given a warning, and once given a fine. Rules are rules.
"But there have been more than a few complaints aired here about Vienna and this over the years." Really? Vienna's public transit is among the easiest to navigate in Central Europe, and the city will continue to attract visitors no matter their transit protocols.
As I have stated, the OP is a troll, or, there is more to the story than is being shared.
Why? Why should tourists come to Vienna and expect to be cut slack? When I "visit the neighbors" in CZ, SK, HU and elsewhere, should I be allowed to get away with not researching the local transit protocols? Is that not part of travel? The Wiener Linien website clearly articulates the transit card protocol. On two occasions I have found myself in violation of the protocols (failure to muzzle DDog while on a train/tram/bus): I was once given a warning, and once given a fine. Rules are rules.
"But there have been more than a few complaints aired here about Vienna and this over the years." Really? Vienna's public transit is among the easiest to navigate in Central Europe, and the city will continue to attract visitors no matter their transit protocols.
As I have stated, the OP is a troll, or, there is more to the story than is being shared.
Feb 5th, 2016, 10:54 AM
#32
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then there have been several trolls about Vienna and this - not so for other cities.
You condone a 100 euro fine for someone not wantonly violating the law but mistakenly so.
The OP had purchased a 48-hour pass so had paid for the fare - just did not know how to validate it - if they had no ticket that would be different but since they had paid for the pass and just did not know how to validate it - well an understanding transit cop would tell them to validate it at the next station - it's not like they did not pay for the travel.
Huge fines are meant to deter free-loaders or should be not naive tourists who have indeed paid for a pass but just were flummoxed on how to validate it.
so word of warning when buying the pass or ticket ask the ticket window about validating it.
No this is not a reason for boycotting Vienna - if you have been fined 200 euros you may be irate too.
You condone a 100 euro fine for someone not wantonly violating the law but mistakenly so.
The OP had purchased a 48-hour pass so had paid for the fare - just did not know how to validate it - if they had no ticket that would be different but since they had paid for the pass and just did not know how to validate it - well an understanding transit cop would tell them to validate it at the next station - it's not like they did not pay for the travel.
Huge fines are meant to deter free-loaders or should be not naive tourists who have indeed paid for a pass but just were flummoxed on how to validate it.
so word of warning when buying the pass or ticket ask the ticket window about validating it.
No this is not a reason for boycotting Vienna - if you have been fined 200 euros you may be irate too.
Feb 5th, 2016, 11:31 AM
#33
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<BUT it will serve the purpose of making anyone who read this post ( and with its provoking many will click on it just to see whats this is all about) and will at least learn to be more aware or careful when using foreign public transport. So, really its a useful post in its own way.>
Exactly!
I happen to think it's the job of transit authorities in touristy cities to help tourists do things properly, because surely everyone realizes that no two transit systems are alike. Enforce the rules, AND help people follow the rules. If you're fining them after they've inadvertently screwed up, something has failed.
Exactly!
I happen to think it's the job of transit authorities in touristy cities to help tourists do things properly, because surely everyone realizes that no two transit systems are alike. Enforce the rules, AND help people follow the rules. If you're fining them after they've inadvertently screwed up, something has failed.
Feb 5th, 2016, 11:55 AM
#35
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I'm not talking about people who are trying to cheat, nor "special rules for tourists". I'm asking for simple understanding from transit cops that tourists get confused--and I have always found it myself when I have been confused on mass transit.
Feb 5th, 2016, 11:58 AM
#36
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And how does one know if the failure is inadvertent or not?
We were not there and have only one side of the story.
I recall a similar post from someone who felt they were unfairly treated in the Budapest subway under "similar" conditions. And after being questioned they revealed more details of the story and it turned out that they were completely at fault and had even physically attacked (they terms was "lighly bumped") the officer. I have to tell you that if you "lightly bump" a NYC cop you will end up in the hoosegow facing charges of assaulting a police officer.
I'm not saying this is what happened. What I am saying is that we have only one side of the story. And the the hysterical reaction of the OP to the incident (and their overall reaction to Vienna) is very different from that of many people on this board who have been to Vienna without clashing with the transit authorities.
It may be exactly as they say - but to me they were responsible for making sure they knew how to travel on the system. Or take a cab if really totally confused.
We were not there and have only one side of the story.
I recall a similar post from someone who felt they were unfairly treated in the Budapest subway under "similar" conditions. And after being questioned they revealed more details of the story and it turned out that they were completely at fault and had even physically attacked (they terms was "lighly bumped") the officer. I have to tell you that if you "lightly bump" a NYC cop you will end up in the hoosegow facing charges of assaulting a police officer.
I'm not saying this is what happened. What I am saying is that we have only one side of the story. And the the hysterical reaction of the OP to the incident (and their overall reaction to Vienna) is very different from that of many people on this board who have been to Vienna without clashing with the transit authorities.
It may be exactly as they say - but to me they were responsible for making sure they knew how to travel on the system. Or take a cab if really totally confused.
Feb 5th, 2016, 12:41 PM
#37
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French friends of mine went to Basel and said that the trams there were free - they saw no one buying any tickets or having any (all probably had transit passes) and they assumed it was free
I believe that all hotels in Basel offer a 24 hr. transit pass to its customers, or longer is the stay is longer.
I believe that all hotels in Basel offer a 24 hr. transit pass to its customers, or longer is the stay is longer.
Feb 5th, 2016, 01:31 PM
#38
It is not impossible that visitors from certain developing countries believe that a minor financial arrangement can be made with authorities in the case of infractions, just like back home. This could possibly cause ticket checkers to raise the tone of their voice.
As for cutting slack to tourists, in my own city (Paris), countless foreign residents pretend to be ignorant tourists when they are caught doing something wrong. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
As for cutting slack to tourists, in my own city (Paris), countless foreign residents pretend to be ignorant tourists when they are caught doing something wrong. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
Feb 5th, 2016, 01:34 PM
#39
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French friends of mine went to Basel and said that the trams there were free - they saw no one buying any tickets or having any (all probably had transit passes) and they assumed it was free
I believe that all hotels in Basel offer a 24 hr. transit pass to its customers, or longer is the stay is longer.>
True but when I asked them they said they did not know about that and had no pass but expected to have to buy tickets but seeing no one else doing it they thought it was free. Yes kind of stupid if you ask me or naive.
I believe that all hotels in Basel offer a 24 hr. transit pass to its customers, or longer is the stay is longer.>
True but when I asked them they said they did not know about that and had no pass but expected to have to buy tickets but seeing no one else doing it they thought it was free. Yes kind of stupid if you ask me or naive.
