Pub Perplexed
 

Hi
I've been to London several times, but have only eaten at a pub once. On that occasion, what to do seemed clear cut. We saw some people downstair eating,we placed our food order at the bar, went upstairs to find a table, drink and wait, went back downstairs to retrieve our food.

On my recent trip I was considering the Museum Tavern, across from the British Museum. A menu was posted outside, but when I peered in, the people downstairs were only drinking, not eating. The time was about 5 or 5:30 pm.
How does one know when walking into a strange pub if there is table service provided or not? How does one know if there are tables for food upstairs?
How does one know if food is provided at all at that particular hour, or not until later?

I know I could have asked, but it was one of the few occasions in my travel life that I felt intimidated while solo.

Essentially, you have to ask. While a few pubs offer food all day, most only offer food at meal times (12 to 2) and 6:30 or 7 to 9). And many of those only at lunch time.

Based on my past experiences with their food, you were lucky the Museum wasn't serving at 5pm!

Ha Ha, Ron. Couldn't agree with you more about the food at the Museum Tavern! It is there just to snag unsuspecting tourists . . . . .

elaine: the only sure fire way to know is to ask.

Elaine - we learned this the hard way! We went into a pub around 4pm near Covent Garden, and we were STARVING. We sat down, ordered a pint, and asked for a menu. We got the pints, and then the bartender told us they didn't serve food until 6pm.

So, we finished our beer and left, off to find somewhere to eat! After that, if our intention was to get food, we'd ask before ordering our drinks.

But we never went upstairs in any pub we were in, so I can't help with that part.

Karen

Asking is the way to go.

I was just in London, we tried at least 5 times to eat in a pub, which advertised "food all day". What they mean is food until 5 pm, we had the worst time eating in a pub for dinner.

My advice -- don't eat in a pub. Pubs are for drinking. The food <i>can be</i> hazardous to your health. Find a restaurant after you've had a pint.
((c))

So I guess I avoided a bad meal.
Interesting. I know it is in a prime touristy location, but someone had recommended the place to me for food, based on a good past experience. I'm a minimalist drinker so staying just for a pint wouldn't be in the plans. That's why I didn't venture inside.

With regard to knowing what to do in pubs in general, I thought there was some secret handshake or code word that I was ignorant of but that habituees would know. Turns out even locals have to inquire; who'd'a thought?

thanks all

You might be interested in Passport to the Pub: a guide for foreigners
at http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html

Pubs in England, Scotland, Ireland have some of the very best food around........IN THE COUNTRYSIDE!!!. London is a different story, but I'm sure there is the occasional good one. Out in the villages and smaller towns throughout the country ,the meals are wonderful (you still order at the bar, but it is then served to you)..they welcome children like a restaurant would, some have non-smoking sections etc). Beautiful soups, meats, veggies, desserts etc.(and it is not necessary to have a drink )
Again, the London pubs process things differently and I think it would be best to get a recommendation from someone , or your hotel, etc.

Tries2PakLite, when was the last time you ate in a pub? Sure some are pretty dreadful, but today in London there are many pubs where the food is as important as the beer -- and sometimes just as good (if that's possible). You sound like you're living in the past, like those people who say there's no such thing as good British food.

the website mentioned above is outstandingly helpful, wish I'd read the info prior to this last visit

thanks

Does anyone know of a website or a past thread here (I searched, but may have missed) that explains the different ales, lagers, etc. and who brews them? I remember drinking Stella the last time I was in London and I liked that very much- I know now that is actually a Belgian lager. Any suggestions?

Erin, to understand beer in England, you need to learn about English Real Ale. This is not a bad page to start, since it talks about the two London brewers of real ale and some pubs.

http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/drink_fe...ishrealale.asp

Patrick -- a year ago. Not all that far in the past. Plus, my brother lived in London for 8 months and when I told him that I had eaten in a pub, he said, &quot;Big mistake -- pubs are for drinking.&quot; And it seemed to me that he was right.

I'm sure that there are pubs with good food, but why spend the time and the money finding out.
((c))

London Gastro Pubs offer some very good resturant standard food with the atmostphere of a traditional bozzer.
try this link:
http://www.london-eating.co.uk/cuisines/gastro.asp
Or look for these which are my favs:
The Westbourne - 101A westbourne Park Villas. Tube:Royal Oak
The Washington - 50 Englands Land. Tube: Belsize Park
The Union Tavern - 52 Lloyd Baker St. Tube: Kings Cross
Scarsdale - 23a Edwards Square. Tube: High St Ken.

Ron- thanks for the link to that site. It was very helpful!

The guide mentioned above at http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html is rather good.
I'm a native and as the guide mentions I seem to have been obeying these 'rules' without even being aware of them. I'm sure the author has his tounge slightly in his cheek for some sections - but there is nothing which is misleading.

The tradition of buying the publican a drink is a little less pronounced around here than the guide makes out (or maybe thats just me being stingy ?) but he is uncannily correct about the male tradition to start mock arguments at the drop of a hat.

I would add another category/sub-category to the types of pub listing though. This is a new category which has appeared in the last few years, ie. The Gastro Pub.

Following the format in the guide I would describe this as :

The 'Gastro Pub' is a fairly new introduction, and is the slightly self-important term used by, or more commonly given to, pubs where the main interest is the food rather than the drink.

Where to look :
Gastro Pubs are located across the country but tend to be found in more affluent areas, either in upmarket city areas, or in rural areas outside cities.

When to visit :
Gastro pubs will normally offer food for both lunch and dinner, but may be quiet outside these times. Some now take reservations and are more than half the way to becoming restaurants - but still retain many of the peculiar pub traditions.

What to look for :
External clues -
Gastro pubs will tend to place a high value on presentation, and will generally have invested time and money in this area. Look for signs of recent investment, and for a much greater emphasis on the menu. The menu will often take the form of a blackboard featuring regularly changing dishes. Descriptiopns of the dishes will often use florid language to the point of obtuseness. The use of French language descriptions is de rigeur, and the more complex a dish can be made to sound the happier the publican will be.

Size and Layout :
Gastro pubs often forgo the public bar/lounge bar layout in order to maximise the table space available for the serving of food. There will still be a bar area, but this is often less of a focus than it is in other types of pub.

Decor :
Decor is often more modern than the average pub, although normally with a few original features to preserve the pub feel and prevent the total transformation into a restaurant.

Customers :
Gastro pubs tend to attract an older and more affluent clientele, which may or may not be desirable depending on your tastes. There are however normally a few older locals who were regulars long before the pub was 'transformed' into a gastro pub - who stay despite the hordes of (as they may see it) newcomers who are interested only in the food. The pub etiquette is sometimes less well observed in these establishments, and more allowances are made for deviations from the 'code'.

Behaviour :
The behaviour is changed due to the slightly more transient nature of the customer base. Customers will tend to come for their meal and then leave, rather than occupying a place at the bar all night until closing time. This reduces the scope for arguments and banter, so the behaviour is sometimes closer to that of a restaurant, albeit less formal.

Service Style :
Whilst it is still normal to order drinks and food at the bar, the food will almost always be delivered to the customers table by the wait staff.

Drinks :
Along with the increased emphasis on food there is generally a wider range of wines available. More aperitifs may be stocked, and ordering them is seen as less of a transgression than in other pub types. Wine lists can be extensive and of good quality. Beware bottles of wine which have been open for days if ordering by the glass (although this is much less of a problem than in other types of pub).

Food :
Often quite the opposite of 'unpretentious pub grub'. Look out for much use of words such as 'timbale', 'jus' etc. There will be interesting combinations of ingredients, or possibly luxury modern reworkings of traditional favourites. Instead of 'Bangers and mash' (Sausages and mashed potatoes) you may be offered 'Locally produced wild boar sausages, served with a goats cheese mash and St. Emilion jus'. Gastro Pubs can be a good way of dining well without either the formality or the cost of a traditional restaurant.

Games :
Whilst some games may be made available to preseve the ambience of a pub, these will not tend to be used as much as in a local pub. The pub is more likely to provide aspirational magazines and newspapers to read over your lunch.

Music :
Normally quiet and not too modern.

StevePWales--
&gt;Gastro Pubs can be a good way of dining well without either the formality or the cost of a traditional restaurant.

Since you are a native, and knowledgeable about gastro-pubs, would you share with us the names of a few that you recommend? The Waterway? The Wells? We will be visiting in February and I'd like to include a few gastro-pubs in my list. Thanks!

And thanks, JimSteel, for your suggestions.

k_marie.
I'd love to help but whilst I am a native, I live in South Wales so don't really have any knowledge of the 'scene' in London (where I guess you are heading).

Anyone else got direct experience of suitable places in London ?

The link provided by JimSteel looks useful though : http://www.london-eating.co.uk/cuisines/gastro.asp

Sorry I can't be of more help.