Piccolina

It's that time of the year again to start planning for my annual trip to France!

I would greatly appreciate some expertise on putting together a skeleton for a trip to Provence / Cote d’Azur in late September.

Here is some background info:
1. Want one “city” (thinking Lyon as the first stop from Paris – my friend really wants to be in a city on this trip rather than all country-side)
2. Want to combine a few days on the coast for some sun (maybe Cassis as base? Does Cassis qualify as Cote d'azur?)
3. Spend remaining time in Provence (Lourmarin as base?)
4. My friend and I have 11 days together (Day 1 would be arrival in CDG and taking the TGV to our first destination). On day 11, my friend would need to depart from Marseilles or Montpellier to fly back to Canada.
5. I will then have a few more days alone before heading to London and I’m thinking of spending those few days in St. Remy or that vicinity to see Nimes and etc.

A very draft itinerary for your comments please:

1. Day 1 – Arrival in CDG and training to Lyon to spend 3 nights.
2. Day 2-4 – Lyon. Picking up car on Day 4 to head to coast (or take a train?)
3. Day 4-7 – Cassis (?) as base. Spend 3 nights on the coast.
4. Day 7-11: Head to Lourmarin for 4 nights and my friend flies out from Marseilles or Montepellier on Day 11
5. Day 11-14 – St Remy or vicinity as base.

A few other questions:
1. Is it “crowded” in Provence or the coast in late September?
2. What’s the weather like in September? Hopefully it’s still warm enough for a dip in the ocean.

How does this itinerary sound? If you have other suggestions for a better base, please share your thoughts!

Many thanks in advance.

Piccolina

I should add that I realy enjoyed being in the country side after spending2 weeks in the Dordogne and anothe week in val d'orcia. So the base doesn't need to be IN the village (i.e. happy to drive a short distance to dinner). The charm of the B&B/hotel itself is equally important.

Is end of September a busy time in this area? I'm usually an early planner so I can secure my first choice hotels/B&Bs. Hopefully I'm not starting my planning too late...

Merci beaucoup!

eigasuki

Hi there Piccolina! I was at St Cyprien with you in 2011, if you remember. From there I went, somewhat indirectly, to Provence. I based myself in Mausanne, near St Remy and found it well-located to all the sites I wanted to see. That was in July and I didn't find it crowded at all. Probably St Remy would have been a better location, with more shopping and , of course, the markets.

I fell in love with Isle-sur-Sorgue and have it marked for "next time". But I'm actually heading to Spain for three weeks in late September, so Provence will be waiting a while.

kelsey22

bkmrking

Piccolina

Hi Eigasuki! So nice to "reunite" again. Of course I remember you

How many bases did you have in provence? Did you find any B&B gems similar to the one in St. Cyprien?

Loved Spain - was there for 3 weeks too before I was in the Dordogne in 2011. Which parts of Spain are you going to?

StuDudley

How late in September will you be in France?

On one of our many trips to Provence & Cote d'Azur, we were in St Tropez for 2 weeks and then in Provence/Vaison for 2 weeks during the last 3 weeks in Sept & 1st week in October. By the 1st week in Oct, we were scraping ice off our windshield in the early morning. In St Tropez, we saw a noticable "drop" in summer weather (and the crowds) from when we arrived to when we left. I don't think we dined outside at all in Provence. Mid-day we could sometimes sit outside in the sun - and some days during the last week we were there it was a little chilly to do that. Summer can fade fast as you proceed from Sept into October. Remember, the Cote d'Azur is farther north than Milwaukee WI.

With this in mind, I would reverse your trip - starting at the Cote d'Azur and ending in Lyon. On the Cote d'Azur you don't want cold, and in Lyon you don't want hot. After Lyon, you could take the short TGV trip to St Remy and re-visit Provence. Your friend could easily fly out of Lyon or go back to Paris to fly home.

Also, I would not spend 3 nights in Cassis for your "beach time". Cassis is quite small and there are not as many things to do in town or around Cassis in the countryside - compared to St Tropez or Nice. My wife "shopped" Cassis in less than 45 mins. The beaches in Cassis are not nearly as interesting or "decadent" as they are in St Tropez/Pampelonne or Nice.

I love Lourmarin, but it adds a bit of difficulty & time getting to the sites that first-timers usually want to visit. The drive over the Combe de Lourmarin is a bit of a challenge, and then getting through or around Bonnieux is a tad slow. I would instead stay in the Luberon Valley - Bonnieux, Roussillon, Gordes, etc.

Here is what I would do:
- Day 1-4 fly to CDG. Then you have several options for getting to the Core d'Azur
1. Fly to Nice if you want to stay in Nice.
2. Take the TGV to Aix en Provence, stay 1-2 nights in Aix (big city - instead of Lyon??), and then drive to Nice or St Tropez
3. Take the TGV to Marseille and drive to St Tropez if you want to stay there.

- Day 4-8 Drive to the Luberon & stay in Gordes/Bonnieux, etc

- Day 8-11 Dump the car at the Avignon TGV station and take the TGV to Lyon.

- Day 11-14 TGV back to Avignon, rent a car, and stay in St Remy.

Stu Dudley

Piccolina

Stu,

Thank you so much for your advice. I was hoping you would be around to share your expertise.

We are arriving in France on 20 Sep.

Thanks for tip on the weather change - definitely didn't notice that reading average weather temps on the internet.

A few more questions if you don't mind:

1. I found a B&B in St. Saturin which looks really nice. Is it possible to stay there and just do a day trip or two to Arles and vicinity? I know you usually advice people on splitting their stay between St. Remy and the Luberon but I would much prefer to stay in the country side after my friend leaves.

2. If doing day trips to Arles/Nimes is too far, do you have another country side destination around St. Remy that you would recommend for overnight stays?

3. I like options 2 and for Day 1-4. Saint Tropez is on my list. (I've been to Nice several times before). How many nights would you recommend for Saint Tropez?

4. How does Aix compare to Albi? I'm wondering if Aix would fit my friend's definition of "city". Alternatively, we could do Marseille since it's in the area. I'm feeling a bit lazy to take a TGV to Lyon and then back to Avignon again...

Many thanks again!

eigasuki

I don't have any recommendations for Provence. I stayed at a Best Western in Mausanne - pool, air-conditioning, kettle and microwave, breakfast included and easy parking so it met my needs but was somewhat lacking in ambience. From there I was easily able to go south to Arles, north to Uzes, Pont du Gard etc and East(ish) to Gordes, Rousillon etc. Of course in July it was light till late so I could cover a lot of ground. I have every sort of weather over four days.

My other stopover for one night en route to Grenoble was at Propiac (very tiny - got lost finding the place) just north of Mt Ventoux at a very strange little place - supposedly a B&B but more like a hostel. Loved Vaison-la Romaine and the countryside in that area. I would love to go to Lyon- certainly more so than Marseilles. But then, I live 500 metres from the ocean.

For Spain we are doing Barcelona, Seville and Madrid for 5 nights each with shorter stays in Mallorca, Ronda and Granada. We are doing apartments in the cities, already booked and still working on the other places. What are your hot tips for Spain?

eigasuki

Just noticed your thread on Paris apartments - I was in Paris early last October! My first stay in an apartment too!

StuDudley

>>A few more questions if you don't mind:

1. I found a B&B in St. Saturin which looks really nice. Is it possible to stay there and just do a day trip or two to Arles and vicinity? I know you usually advice people on splitting their stay between St. Remy and the Luberon but I would much prefer to stay in the country side after my friend leaves.<<<<

That would be fine. However St Saturnin is close to both Lourmarin and Gordes/Roussillon/Bonnieux - so on your first pass through Provence with your friend, you might want to stay in St Remy.

>>2. If doing day trips to Arles/Nimes is too far, do you have another country side destination around St. Remy that you would recommend for overnight stays?<<

Not really. We stayed in a Gite just west of St Remy but I don't think that "countryside" is as nice as the Luberon or the other 3 regions where we've stayed for extended periods in Provence. South of Les Beaux is nice - but different from the Luberon.

>>3. I like options 2 and for Day 1-4. Saint Tropez is on my list. (I've been to Nice several times before). How many nights would you recommend for Saint Tropez?<<

At least 2 nights - perhaps 3 if you want to explore the villages surrounding St Tropez and/or have a "day in the sun" at Tahiti Plage or elsewhere on Pampelonne beach.

>>4. How does Aix compare to Albi? I'm wondering if Aix would fit my friend's definition of "city". Alternatively, we could do Marseille since it's in the area. I'm feeling a bit lazy to take a TGV to Lyon and then back to Avignon again..<<

Aix is totally different from Albi. Aix is a University Town so it is lively all the time. My wife's favorite shopping city - after Paris. Lots & lots of outdoor cafes. Daily outdoor maybe not Sunday) near the Mairie and a much bigger one on Tues, Hhurs, and Sat. Albi is smaller and much more sedate. Great cathedral, fort/chateau (Toulouse Lautrec museum inside). Whereas Aix is filled with students, locals, & tourists having lunch on the Cours Mirebeau - there is no/very little "scene" like that in Albi.

Population of Aix 142,500, Albi 48,700

Stu Dudley

Piccolina

Stu - thanks again for your tips.

We have a slight game changer to our trip...we decided we don't need any beach time anymore so here's a revised itinerary.

Day 1-4: Lyon
Day 4-7: St. Remy or further east such as Uzes
Day 7-10: Luberon with friend
Day 10-14: Continue my stay in Luberon

Regarding day 4-7, what are your thoughts on staying in Uzes or that area given I'm not too keen to stay around St. Remy?

If we stay in Uzes or that area, would Avignon be the TGV stop that we would get off on?

Many thanks!

Piccolina

eigasuki - your destinations in Spain sound great. I've been to all those places except for Ronda. Good amount of time you have in each place.

Some tips:
Seville - we spent 3 nights there without doing any day trips. With 5 days, you'll be able to do a day trip to Cordoba. We looked into this briefly for our 3rd day but realised that the train tickets were quite expensive for a short ride so we decided against it. Tip - book your train ticket to Cordoba early to get discount

Madrid - loved loved LOVED Madrid. I had no expectations for Madrid as many people say they didn't like it but it was quite the reverse. I prefer madrid much more than Barcelona (but then again Barcelona is a must-see but definitely a lot more touristy). Did 2 day trips - Segovia and Toledo. The castle in Segovia is amazing. Again, buy the train tickets in advance (not at the station). Got a few good restaurant suggestions for madrid so let me know if you're interested.

Granada - book your day entrance ticket to Alhambra early. We booked it for 5pm (but we went in June when the sun was up until 9:30pm). Then we also booked the night tour for the same night. I really enjoyed the night tour - it's a completely different feel to day time.

Book your train ticket from Seville-Madrid as soon as it opens up to get great savings. I think my ticket was about 35 euros one way for 2nd class I took another high speed train from Madrid to San Sebastian in first class and I think the additional cost is well worth it. Lots more space, breakfast on the train, only like 4 people in the entire carriage, no need to scramble to find a place for your luggages.

I didn't get a chance to see Ronda but it was on my list. Instead we went to Malaga which was a very nice surprise (we chose Malaga only because that was the only Easyjet route from Sardinia to Southern Spain). Maybe if you have 2 extra days to spare, think about going to Malaga.

I loved Spain when I was there - the food was amazing and a lot cheaper than France. You'll have a fabulous time.

StuDudley

Uzes would be fine. We've spent 2 weeks in a gite just outside of Uzes.

Yes, the Avignon TGV station is close to Uzes.

Stu Dudley

dreamon

Like most places the weather can vary a lot from year to year. We were in roughly the same area in Provence in early October in 2008 and 2011 and found the weather entirely different. The second time high-20's many days and we were swimming at the pool but the first time cooler.

Piccolina

Stu - thanks again. Could you please be so kind and share your provence itinerary with me? I'll drop you an email...

Got 2 quick questions:

1. I would love to see the Camaruge horses and visit Aigues-Mortes - do you think this is do-able as a day trip from Uzes?

2. Would you recommend driving down to Cassis as a day trip from the Luberon? I see that driving time is roughly 1hr and 15 min.

Dreamon - I'm fine with cooler weather as I live in a hot climate. However I am a bit concerned with the waning sunlight as we move into fall...i usually travel in May/June where the day is longer. This just means we need an earlier start!

StuDudley

Got 2 quick questions:

1. I would love to see the Camaruge horses and visit Aigues-Mortes - do you think this is do-able as a day trip from Uzes?

It is a 1 1/4 hr drive to Aigues Mortes. We liked Aigues Mortes the first time we visited it back in the 80s, but less the 4th time in the 00s. The main entrance is a half-block with some tacky souvenirs in the shops - but you could ignore that. The main square and the ramparts are enjoyable, but most of the remaining architecture is not as interesting as what you'll see in Uzes, Avignon, Luberon villages, etc. You & your friend will only be in Provence for 5 days. A trip to the Camargue will consume 1 of those days. That's not much time in "central" Provence for your friend. I'm not a fan of white horses, marches, or Pink Flamingos (we had lots of Flamingos at our local zoo). See comments below below

>>2. Would you recommend driving down to Cassis as a day trip from the Luberon? I see that driving time is roughly 1hr and 15 min.<<

OK - now your friend will only spend 3 days in "central" Provence. That's not nearly enough time. I don't think Cassis in very late Sept will be as interesting as some things you'll not see in central Provence - but it's your choice. I would probably visit either the Carmargue or Cassis - not both. For either, wait until later in your stay to determine if you really want to make the trip. The weather could be bad, which would make Cassis a waste, IMO.

I thought you already had my itinerary - that's why I didn't mention it here. E-mail me & I'll send it to you.

Stu Dudley

Piccolina

Hi Stu

Thanks - I just dropped you an email. Good point on Cassis - really need to see if the weather will cooperate

Turns out my friend can't go anymore and instead my mom will join me. We arrive on a Friday and depart on the Thursday 2 weeks later.

By the way, what are your thoughts on Lyon? Do you think it's a good way to start the trip (3 nights in Lyon) before we head down to Provence?

Do you think a 3 night stay in Uzes followed by a 7 night stay in St. Saturin is a good split? Seems like there's lots to see around Uzes too...should I extend a night or two in Uzes and shorten the Luberon stay?

Unfortunately we won't be in Uzes on a Saturday for the lovely market.

StuDudley

I think 2 nights in Lyon is adequate. If you then have 11 nights in Provence, that's enough time to add in the Camargue and Cassis. For 11 nights, I might consider 3 nights in Uzes, 4 nights near Bedoin (nice Monday morning market), and then finally 4 nights in the Luberon. If you decide you want to visit the Camargue, add a day to Uzes & visit it from there & then 1 less day in/near Bedoin. That will reduce the driving to the various sites quite a bit.

There are lovely markets everywhere in Provence.

Stu Dudley

Piccolina

Hi Stu - thanks again for your expertise. I can't thank you enough!

1. Bedoin is something I haven't considered previously but noted you have mentioned about it in your Provence report. Is the landscape/atmosphere quite different from the Luberon? Seems like most of the available accomodation coming up for this area is in Mazan - what are your thoughts on this village?

2. Re: your suggestion of Lyon as a 2 night stay. If we get into Lyon on the firt day (Friday) at 3pm and stay overnight for 2 nights with departure on a Sunday to Avignon..this leaves us with 1.5 day to explore Lyon. Is this sufficient?

Many thanks again....

DebitNM

Check out my almost complete TR on our trip last Sept - oct.

The place where we stayed in St. Saturnin has a chambre d'hôte that would work for you if the gites is too much.

http://www.accommodationinprovence.com/

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ugh-france.cfm

Another place to stay would be "Le Mas Perreal" which is a B&B.