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Protestant Has a Few Questions About Cathedrals

Protestant Has a Few Questions About Cathedrals

Old Mar 25th, 2004, 11:06 AM
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And speaking of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, allow me to stray from the question slightly by bringing up a topic of frequent 'misconception" by people of all faithe, including Catholics. The term immaculate conception refers to Mary having been born without the burden of the original sin. Virgin birth is the correct phrase that describes her pregnancy without the benifit of sexual relations.

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Old Mar 25th, 2004, 12:27 PM
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And the crescent-shaped holder for the consecrated host placed, or usually slotted, inside a monstrance is called 'lunette' (meaning 'little moon'). And the metal or wooden stand on which the monstrance is placed is called 'thabor', after the mountain of the same name where Jesus was transfigured.
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Old Mar 25th, 2004, 10:15 PM
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Bardo

Not so; there are Episcopalian churches in other places than the US. the organised Anglican communion in Scotland is the Scottish Episcopalian church (and you may be interested to know that the US communion is an offshoot of the Cathedral here in Aberdeen- many US tourists every year visit to see the place.)
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 01:27 AM
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Thank you Sheila! I also stated the church was Episcopal in reference to the U.S. because as many people on this board are American it would be better explained that it is like the Church of Ireland/England/Svotland etc.

I guess they are right...never talk about sex, politics or religion in mixed company as some people get their knickers in a twist
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 02:17 AM
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Siobhan:

When did the Church of Scotland become Episcopal?

Millions of Covenanteers, protagonists in the Disruption, and every other participant in the complex history of this proud - and unquestionably Presbyterian - Church would turn in their graves at the thought.

The Church of Scotland (which for most of the years since the Reformation was the Established Church in Scotland) is a quite different institution from the Scottish Episcopal Church (the local affiliate of, among many others worldwide, the Church of England, the Church of Ireland and America's Episcopalian Church).
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 05:00 AM
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It would be wrong to equate the status of Anglican Communion with that of Roman Catholic Church, for a number of reasons:
1) RC Church is centrally governed under the Pope, and he remains the Supreme Pontiff with universal jurisdiction, in spite of limited autonomy delegated to Episcopal Conferences and diocesan bishops.
2) Anglican Communion is more of a federation of autonomous provinces and the Archbishop of Canterbury is styled 'primus inter pares', 'first among equals'. Individual member churches have complete freedom to order their affairs without permission from or reference to Canterbury.
3) Point 2) has created, within Anglican Communion, a degree of impaired communion with the creation of women bishops in some, but not in other churches. Women bishops ordained in US, quite canonically, are not recognised as bishops in provinces that have not done so, such as Church of England, Anglican Church in Australia or most churches in the Third World. Even male priests ordained by them often cannot function as such in those churches.
4) Individual Anglican provinces have entered into union with a number of non-Anglican churches, like in Canada and India, whilst elsewhere such churches remain out of communion with the Anglican Church locally. There is a good chance that the Anglican Church in Papua New Guinea will enter intercommunion with the Roman Catholic Church, already working closely, subject to Vatican approval.
5) In Anglican Communion there is great tension between conservatives and liberals over church order (as described), doctrinal orthodoxy and ethical and moral teaching. Many cannot see the Communion existing in any meaningful way in the not-so-distant future.
6) While there is tension within the RC Church, the hierarchical and centralised structure would at least save it from disintegration. While some disagree on a number of issues, few in RC Church would want to dispense with the papacy as a focus of unity and fount of authority.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 05:40 AM
  #47  
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Sorry folks. As the OP, it would have saved a lot of Protestant/Catholic/Anglican discussion if I had identified myself as Former Southern Baptist/Now Presbyterian...I was just trying to find out some info on religious traditions and expressions that are not in my religious experience.

But if I can venture one more question...I've been to Colonge Cathedral and several other great churches (hate to call them "cathedrals" now, in case I'm using the term too loosely) in Germany...Is the Colonge Cathedral still Catholic or is it "Evangelical" (as I believe they call what we in the US call Lutherans [and please don't start in on the difference between the two!])

After things had settled down after the Reformation, were most of the original cathedrals changed physically (e.g. were some of the statues removed, do they still light candles)?
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 05:54 AM
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Cologne Cathedral is Catholic.

The changes the Reformed churches imposed on the buildings they took over from Catholics vary as massively as do the doctrines of the sect that took them over.

Sweden's churches, for example, seem to have suffered very little damage in the handover to Lutheranism, but candle-lighting is something I've personally never seen in Sweden.

The artefacts in England's churches went through three separate waves of destruction (under Henry and Edward, a forced retrofit of Catholic stuff under Mary, its destruction under Elizabeth, and the destruction under Cromwell of the compromise stuff installed under Elizabeth). But some Anglican churches now have as many candles, statues (sometimes even of Charles 1, revered as a martyr by some!), incense smells etc as any Catholic or even Orthodox church: others are as bare as a hardcore Hebrides Presbyterian chapel.

Few aspects of European culture reflect the Continent's diversity as starkly as the way churches changed at the Reformation throughout what we now tend to think of as Europe's Protestant belt.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 05:54 AM
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Flanneruk, if I am wrong apologies but I believed it to be the same because my Irish Neighbors are Church of Ireland and growing up with them in the U.S. they went to the Episcopal church and I was told this was the same. I assumed C of E and Scotland were the same. From what you are saying this is not so.

So many subtle differences between so many similar religions.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 06:11 AM
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missy,
Thanks your original questions. I also don't mind the subsequent digression - I've learned more about religions (esp. RC) on this thread than I have in the last 10 years.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 06:12 AM
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Our neighbors are from the UK and they are looking for an Anglican church...they aren't comfortable with the Episcopalian churches that we've all suggested to them.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 07:36 AM
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Are they looking for charismatic or traditional?
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 07:44 AM
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Please, the correct term for the Anglican Communion in the US is EPISCOPAL Church not episcopalian. It is occasionally referred to as the Protestant Episcopal Church though that is rare today.

It became a separate entity from the Church of England in 1785 after the American revolution and the first prayer book was adopted in 1789.

The Nicene Creed from 325 is the formal statement of beliefs as in most Christian churches and is recited at the Holy Eucharist. It contains the line: We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. Note the small "c" in catholic.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 08:56 AM
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The Anglican Church in US is the Episcopal Church in the United States of America (ECUSA). I think the prefix 'Protestant' (PECUSA) was dropped some years ago, though perhaps not officially. Members of the Episcopal Church are referred to as Episcopalians.
See http://ecusa.anglican.org/index_flash.htm
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 10:52 AM
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One other Protestant cathedral is in Helsinki...going by the name of Lutheran Cathedral. It over looks the harbor.
Bill...A retired clergy impressed with some knowledgeable folks here
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 10:53 AM
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Whilst we are continuing to split hairs (and very interesting hairs they are too), there is NO established Church in Scotland, flanneruk. We're too independednt for that
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 12:17 PM
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In response to the second post in this thread, and this point may have been mentioned previously (I haven't read all 50+ responses), but, technically, all cathedrals are Catholic. By definition, a cathedral is the seat of a Catholic Bishopric.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 12:37 PM
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"there is NO established Church in Scotland"
This statement needs qualification. While the position of the Church of Sctland (Kirk) isn't the same as that of the Church of England, it has a special relationship to the Sovereign. She has the right to attend the General Assembly (highest governing body) but cannot take part in its deliberations. While she does not appoint senior clergy (like in England), royal chaplains in Scotland are all chosen from Kirk. She worships regularly at Kirk while in Scotland (e.g. Crathie Church near Balmoral), and at her accession she promised to uphold the 'Presbyterian Church Government' in Scotland. Kirk ministers act as registrars when officiating at weddings, and no civil formalities are required. But unlike England, Kirk laws do not go to Westminster or Scottish parliaments for approval. The Kirk remains the national church in Scotland, since 1690, and her status in guaranteed in the Act of Union of 1707. But it's true that the Kirk enjoys more autonomy than its counterpart in England.
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 12:42 PM
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You said "By definition, a cathedral is the seat of a Catholic Bishop"

Perhaps by A definition, but not by most definitons.

Keith
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Old Mar 26th, 2004, 01:11 PM
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Alec, I had been doubting my words even before you posted. BUT the Church's on web site vindicates my wordsbr />
"That process of re-union" (after 1843 "gave the Church of Scotland an opportunity to resolve once and for all how it wanted to govern itself and how it wanted to relate to the state. Little remains of the Church's previous establishment, but she retains a strong sense of a national responsibility to bring Christ's Gospel to the whole of Scotland. She is free, therefore, from civil interference in spiritual matters."

Sorry to be boring.

I have found this whole thread fascinating
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