Many years ago as a student, I was waitressing in a very nice restaurant in Toronto. The Chef made a point of not using any french word in his menu. One I had a table of young snotty princesses who were very demanding - requesting many items we did not have on the menu. They considered themselves to be very sophisticated. Finally, one turned to me said I will have the "Calvay Livay". Now our house wine was Calvet, but for the life of me, I could not figure out the Livay. Then the penny dropped and (breaking Marilyn's Cardinal Rule) I asked her how she would like her Calves Liver cooked. From previous encounters with this group, I was happy to forgo my 2% tip.
BTW it is pronounced Brusketta and the "t" should be pronounced on the end of Moët in Moët & Chandon just to add to the discussion.

According to my cookbook, coriander, or Chinese parsley, or cilantro comes from the Greek "koris", meaning "bug". It doesn't say if its a bug deterrent or attractor. In Australia the entire plant, leaves, seeds and root is known as "coriander", if buying it in Asian stores its known as "pak chee" which I believe is the Thai word.

Interesting discussion, I always thought it was brushetta, thx for the correction! Shoulda known cuz I was a fashionista wannabe 15 yr old when I realized it was Mosc"k"ino, not MO"sh"ino as I was running around pretentiously calling it.

In Arabic, cilantro is KUZ-ba-rah, and cookies are bis-KOAT or bis-KAWEET.

Interesting thread. I've heard bruschetta pronounced about 3 different ways in Chicago and mostly bru-shetta. Now I know better, that I am not saying it wrong- was starting to wonder.

Also have tried with polite questions to narrow down the cilantro dishes when I'm out, because it just ruins a dish to my taste. We actually make our own salsa with all fresh ingredients and without cilantro. It's hot, very hot and all kinds of peppers don't bother me. Now I know why I find it so off-putting. Thanks!

travelnut: Butte (and buttes) use that French U sound that does not exist in English and thus few of us can make: it is a bit like the mooing of a cow.

Maraschino is a clear, relatively dry liqueur made from Marasca cherries. Does anyone here say Ma-ra-SKEE-no?

I'm not sure if the word is Italian....the only place where I've seen local product was in the former Yugoslavia.

>Does anyone here say Ma-ra-SKEE-no? <

I do.

So, how does one pronounce "gare"?

((I))

Ira, go to your room!

AnthonyG, when you say boot, which pronunciation do you mean? The American boot or the Canadian boot?

hey I just found out my grandparents spoke ebonics?

I meant boot as in General American English, which is the extreme close back rounded vowel (/u/ in IPA, cardinal vowel 8). This is the closest _English_ equivalent.

The actual French vowel is a close front rounded vowel (/y/ in IPA, vowel 9), which is simply the English "ee" of "sleet" pronounced with the lips rounded. Anglophones have trouble with this vowel, so /u/ is a good approximation.

GAE is the English spoken in most of the US and Canada, by some 300 million people. There are regional variations, of course, but I was talking about the most widespread pronunciation, GAE.

re: pasta fagioli

It's actually pasta e fagioli (pasta and beans) pronounced pasta eh fahjohlee ---when you're speaking correct Italian.

Dialect is often pronounced pasta fazool, pasta fahjool, etc.

I found out years ago that I was allergic to cilantro before it was popular when I was dining in a chineese restaurant. I thought someone in the kitchen dropped soap in my dish. My friends tasted my dish and did not taste the soap. A few years later at a friend's home in London, he prepared a fish dish and that soap taste reared it's ugly head. I asked him if cilantro was in the dish and that yes confirmed my allergy.

See, that's why I love this site. Just in recent weeks I've learned what capri pants are and now I've dicovered that in the US, coriander is cilantro (a word I have never heard until today).

Bru-shette is the normal pronunciation in the UK too, but only because no-one knows any better.

how would bruschetta be pronounced by a spanish speaking individual??

I am a spanish speaking individual :)
I would pronunce it brusketta , the combination "ch" is pronounced like "k" in italian.

>how would bruschetta be pronounced by a spanish speaking individual??<

The same way as by Italians - with a k.

It should be pronounced the same way by English speaking people as well.

((I))

A company is now heavily advertising their "brick-oven pizza" in the US. It's a home-prepared pizza that claims to have the flavor of a pizza cooked in a traditional wood-fired brick oven.

The company is named "Freschetta", which in Italian would be pronounced "fress-ketta". But in the ads, it is pronounced "fresh-etta".

I find it rather ironic that a company that is advertising a product that they claim tastes authentically Italian is forced to mis-pronounce its own name. I suspect the ad agency looked at the nearly universal mis-pronunciation of "bruschetta" in the US, and decided that nobody would ever get their name right, and they might as well just throw in the towel and go along with the crowd.

Anyone want to start on "pinot grigio"?

- Larry

Hello JustRetired (Larry), you are absolutely right - a misprounced Italian word.

Let me share something with you. In the SF BayArea and surrondings areas there are so many Italian immigrants, now first, second and third generation of course. And their surnames have been so misprounced over the decades they just "give up". I had one dear friend that was in business and probably corrected his customers, business people he dealt with etc. about twenty times a day regarding the proper pronounciation of his name. When he was in his 70's, shortly before he died he made the statement one night at dinner "I don't care how many times I have to tell people how my name is pronounced. If they are tired of me telling them then they can remember what I tell them". Too sweet. And he always made a point to get the correct pronounciation of every person he talked to, no matter where there were from.

He reminded me of my maternal grandfather who was from Europe. No one "dared" to misprounce his surname!

Take care.

JustRetired, I suspect they were going for the "fresh" connection, don't you?

"pee-no gree-jo" is close enough, with the accent on the first syllable of each.

Marilyn, I was so amused by the mis-pronunciation of the Italian, and the bruschetta connection, that I didn't even think of the evocation of the English word "fresh".

I'll bet that played a roll in their thinking. Thanks.

- Larry

Gak. I meant to say, "I'll bet that played a ROLE in their thinking." They make pizza, not rolls.

I hate it when that happens.

- Larry

Aw, Larry, I just thought you were being really clever. :-D

Have you been the the University of Notre Dame or the city of Des Moines? We clearly have American pronunciations for certain foreign words. I don't think knowing the rules of Italian pronunciations makes one an expert in how to pronounce Bruschetta in America.

Any Iowan would know you are not from Iowa if you pronounce the s at the end of Des Moines, but not a single one would use the "correct" French pronunciation.

I think we (including waiters and waitresses) should be polite and good-humored when discussing any differences in pronunciations of foreign words commonly "mispronounced" in American. It's interseting conversation.

Broo-SKAY-ta

And before anyone jumps in and criticises the resurrection of an old thread I would like to say how much I have enjoyed reading this today .
( A former Brushetta sinner!)

True. This was/is a fun thread.
US place names can be especially challenging for foreigners if those places originate from a foreign language but you have no clue how they got anglisized (is this a proper word?) in pronounciation.

I enjoyed it too as I wasn't here on fodors last time it surfaced.

i particularly enjoyed flanner's contribution as it was EXACTLY what I wanted to say:

<<n English, "cilantro" is pronounced "coriander">>

and like Patrick, i can't stand it however it is spelt or pronounced. I don't know about its tasty soapy, but it definitely tastes 'yuck" to me.

now while we're on pronunciation, and taking up cowboy's idea, can someone help me with "Poughkeepsie"?

Last time I got a train to New York, the guard called it P'kEEpsie.

But living in a microtown which, however the guard pronounces it, half the train thinks ought to be pronounced differently, I wouldn't assume that's authoritative.

Puh-KIP-see is the way I usually hear it.

While I have no problems with the French "Buttes", I won't even tell you how I tried to pronouce Butte (Montana).

>>>I don't think knowing the rules of Italian pronunciations makes one an expert in how to pronounce Bruschetta in America.<<<

I think it does make a difference. You should not capitalize bruschetta for a start (or euro). Proper nouns tend to be treated differently.

To add to the discussion, a slightly different pronunciation on the plural - bruschette.

Last time I got a train to New York, the guard called it P'kEEpsie.
_______
You come to the US and visit Poughkeepsie? The origin is American Indian. And in the US we call the guard a conducter or engineer depending on who said it.

In NYC we say Pah-KIP-see.

My father grew up near there - and it was always Pah KIP see.

And we have a lot of native american names that some people may not get starting with Manhattan.

However, we have stuck with the British pronunciation of Greenwich (Gren-itch, not green-which) for both the town and the neighborhood in Manhattan. (Although people from other parts of the country often don;t get it.)

Though, in Manhattan, Greenwich is pronounced "The Village."

And Manhattan is pronounced " the city."

"The City" is actually Oklahoma City to the rest of the state.

I just have to butt in here, because my office is in Poughkeepsie.

But, better yet, I once spent a weekend in Pocahontas, Arkansas (don't ask) and found a nearby town named "Poughkeepsie" When I asked about it, I was told it is pronounced "POW kip-see."

I really wanted to go there, but we didn't have time to drive the 30 or so miles to see it.

But, better yet, I once spent a weekend in Pocahontas, Arkansas (don't ask) and found a nearby town named "Poughkeepsie" When I asked about it, I was told it is pronounced "POW kip-see.">>

Butte in all you like, Taconic! did you know that Pocahontas is buried in Gravesend in Kent? she allegedly came to Cornwall hence the name of a town here "Indian Queens" but a more likely explanation is that the town is named after the pub there which was renamed the Indian Queen after Queen Victoria was made Empress of India.

but I digress. thank you for the pronunciation of Poughkeepsie. How I know that such a place exists I have no idea, but should I go there, at least I'll know how to pronounce it. And I'll be sure to some and visit you in your office!

at the beginning of the meal it is pronounced bru-sketta then after many glasses of kianti it is pronounced bru-shhhhhetta

time for a grappa!

Butte in all you like, Taconic! did you know that Pocahontas is buried in Gravesend in Kent?
_____
I grew up in Brooklyn, NY and the area was called Gravesnd. And we used to go fishing in Dead Horse Bay. No wonder people thought we were tough guys.

I wonder how long it's going to be before someone brings up "Billerica"?