Prevent Another Cold War: Maitai needs Eastern Europe Input
 

For those of you who adhere to the Slow Travel philosophy, you might want to get out your heart medication now. We are planning a six country (seven if you count taking the train through Slovakia), 27-day trip next year, and I would greatly appreciate your comments/help. Here is my tentative itinerary. Please sit down before reading itinerary.

Fly L.A. to Prague
(4 nights Prague)

Drive to Cesky Krmlov (1 night)

Drive to Olomouc via Telc (1 night)

Drive (early) to Krakow (4 nights)

Overnight train Eger (1 night)

Morning Train to Budapest (3 nights)

Early flight Dubrovnik (3 nights)

Early flight Zagreb - stay in Ljubljana (2 nights) with day trip to Lake Bled.

Drive to Piran (via Trieste for lunch) 2 nights with day trip to caves & castle.

Drive to Rovinj (2 nights)

Early ferry to Venice (2 nights)

Fly home

I know there is overnight train from Prague to Krakow, but one overnight train is enough for me, plus I wanted to see a few of these Czech towns.

We might just overnight to Budapest, but Eger seems like a cool place.

We are traveling with our other gas-impaired friends (Kim and Mary) again. We all get up pretty early so the two longer drives in Czech Rep. and Poland won't eat up much our day. We've been to Venice before, so although two days is never enough there, it is just icing on the cake for us.

I know our itinerary is rather fast-paced, but it seems highly doable. Is it? I thought about blowing off Croatia and Slovenia for another trip, but you never know what the future holds. Plus, the drives in those two countries are pretty short.

I have read numerous posts and books about all these places because I have never been to any of them (except Venice), but your ideas and recommendations (hotel, restaurant, train, auto rental and any places of interest you have loved) would be very helpful.

Thanks.

((H))

how about A CONVOY...

Sounds like fun!

I fit Budapest-Vienna-Bratislava-Zagreb-Ljubljana into a 12 day trip but I did it all by train.

I'll have to check my journals from that trip (it was almost 4 years ago now)later.

What month are you thinking?

"What month are you thinking?"

May, June or September. Everyone is working on getting the time off, so we don't have exact time frame down yet.

((H))

Is cost an issue, because if it is, dropping off the car across a border will subject you to a hefty drop-off fee.

My question is why? Are you anticipating that your travel days are over? If not, I would save some of the trip for another time.

Michael,

Cost is always an issue. Do you have any idea what the extra cost would be to pick up car in Czech Republic and drop in Poland?

I figure the extra charge would not be as much as an overnight train for four, but I have been wrong before (see Chargers winning 2007 Super Bowl prediction).

I'm 54, so I am not planning on keeling over any time soon (hopefully), but as long as we were in the neighborhood (yes, a very big neighborhood), let's see more of it. If we love any portions, we could come back and stay longer.

Thanks.

((H))

Hi, Maitaiton!

I'd keep the car. It's not that far to drive and infinitely more enjoyable and flexible.

I'd try some other destinations besides the ones that Rick Steves recommends. :)

The Czech Republic has numerous castles and manor houses and they are wonderful to visit. On the way from Prague to Cesky Krumlov is one of medieval castles that I remember the most: Zhikov. Made me dream of King Arthur and stuff like that. :)

Another grand castle not to be missed is Karlstejn which is west of Prague.

From Prague you can take a one day drive to Kutna Hora, where there is the a creepy ossuary for people who like those sorts of things. Can't remember why there are churches dedicated to ossuaries like this, except maybe it had something to do with the Plague.

In Hungary, we enjoyed the Great Bend of the Danube with interesting town like Esztergom, Visegrad (liked the fortress-castle there), and Szentendre. All these towns need a car for best enjoyment.

In Slovakia we really enjoyed Bratislava, which has fewer tourists, more's the pity, since it's nothing much to look at but once inside the old part of town, very enjoyable.

Only a few suggestions. Enjoy your trip! Great area of Europe to visit! Happy planning! :)

I avoid cross-border drop-offs because of costs, so I can't tell you what it would be, assuming that any rental agency is willing to have you do it. I know that when leasing, it adds $150+ to the leasing agreement depending on the distance of the pick-up point (another $150 for drop-off) from France.

If looking for something off-beat, look ofr Organic Architecture in Hungary. You'll see some samples in these photos:

http://tinyurl.com/2dpj4d

"I know that when leasing, it adds $150+ to the leasing agreement depending on the distance..."

Michael, Auto Europe gave me a $346 drop-off charge (using Hertz). He said the Avis drop-off charge in Poland was $7,000. That's a lot of mai tais.

Easytraveler, I know that Cesky Krumlov and Olomouc are mentioned in Rick Steves. He is one of my sources (but not the only one).

Is there another driving route from Cesky Krumlov to Krakow? Thank you for your ideas you posted.

((H))

Maitai: You're welcome.

Just a small return for all the wonderful postings that you have been making. Looking forward to a lot more! :)

I've found that renting in France and returning to France is the cheapest.

I'd also recommend getting a lease because the insurance that comes with the package covers everything - even little nikcs and big wrecks, flat tires, etc. It usually requres a stay of about two weeks/more to get a lease. A shorter-term rental is more expensive because you need to get pretty comprehensive insurance coverage, then have drop-off fees and other added costs.

I've used europebycar a couple of times and have no complaints about this company.

Usually rent in Paris and return to Paris. It takes about a day (600+ miles) to drive from Paris straight through to Prague. Distances are not great, there's just so much to see in-between all those miles in Europe!

Again, happy planning! :)

Wow - sounds wonderful!!

Why not check with Gemut.com. We checked with some car agencies and found Gemut to be the most reasonable when we were in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. Bob and Andy Bestor were both very knowledgeable.

Good luck and enjoy this wonderful trip.

A few changes to itinerary (below) due to incredible charges for dropping car in another country. I would appreciate comments/recommendations on feasibility of this new schedule. Thanks.

A few questions first:
If you rent a car in Croatia, is there a problem to drive it into Italy? Not dropping it there. Just staying a few days with Trieste as base.

What are your opinions of Trieste?

Can four people (two couples) share a sleeper on Krakow to Budapest overnight run (hopefully we'll still be friends by this juncture of the trip)?

01 Fly Prague – arrive 5:40 pm
02 Prague
03 Prague
04 Prague – (Kutna Hora Day trip)
05 Prague - (castle day trip)
06 Drive 2 hours to Cesky Krumlov
07 Drive 4 hours to Olomouc (via Telc)
08 Train (10:40 am or so) Olomouc to Krakow – arrive about 2:30 pm
09 Krakow
10 Krakow – Auschwitz tour
11 Krakow – salt mine tour
12 Krakow – Overnight train Budapest
13 Morning Train to Budapest
14 Budapest
15 Budapest - Danube curve
16 Budapest
17 Fly early morning to Dubrovnik - arrive 8:30 am
18 Dubrovnik
19 Fly Zagreb (arrive 8:30) – drive 1½ hrs to Ljubljana, Slovenia
20 Drive to Lake Bled, Slovenia (1 hour)
21 Lake Bled – car to Lake Bohinj – hikes, picnics and wine
22 Drive 1½ hours to Trieste, Italy (via Predjama castle) - explore Trieste
23 Trieste – visit Lipica Lippizaners and Skocjan
24 Trieste – visit Postojna or maybe a boat ride down to Piran (we would do Postojna on drive to Trieste from Bled, but we all the luggage would be in the car)
25 Drive Rovinj - relax
25 Rovinj – (hill towns and wine)
26 Rovinj drop car in Porec, lunch in Porec and take bus to Rovinj
27 7 am ferry to Venice – arrive 10:40 am
28 Venice – cat puppets (you can never have enough)
29 Fly Home

((H))

Tom, are you joining a bicycle marathon? Tour de FormerSovietBloc?

Hey, I'm impressed that you're just 54 and can get a month off!!! Are you sure you live in America? My DH is 65 and just gets 2 weeks. Life here sucks if you like to travel.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm already looking forward to your trip report!!

Have you cut Eger from the latest version of the itinerary. I was just typing how we enjoyed it and the wine the town's known for (how can you not like a wine called "Bull's Blood"?). But I read further down and seems you might be waking up in Budapest now.

Well, fair enough, you can't do it all. Don't know the other cities *yet* but plenty to do in Budapest with the time you have there. Don't know you're budget, but check out www.victoria.hu for a nice little hotel, where all the rooms have a view of parliament. Close walk to the Chain Bridge and the Vaci Utca on the other side. Nice helpful staff.

IsEastern Europe really ready for this????!

I see a big movie deal in the making. Get a van so a couple of us can go with you!

"Have you cut Eger from the latest version of the itinerary."

Clifton, I really want to go to Eger, but right now it is out. The current itinerary includes two nights in Dubrovnik, but part of me thinks we should save Dubrovnik for another trip and add a day in Eger or maybe Plitvice. This trip is ever-evolving (and ever-confusing). Thanks also for the Budapest hotel info. It looks like a good possibility to me.

If we did substitute Eger, that means I would need to get from Budapest to Zagreb, so I could rent the car in Croatia. I don't know if there is a train from B to Z. Also, with so many train trips, is there a pass we should buy?

We have never taken this long a trip, so the possibilities for the four of us causing international incidents are high.

((H))

First of all, I think you should cram in as much as you can and never mind the dust plodders...it sounds like a wonderful trip.

My only question (and I am not in any way trying to throw a money wrench into any plans) which i have had from the beginning of this thread is about the origin...Prague.

Why are you starting there and not in Poland?

I assume this has to do with flights...frequent flyer miles..costs..is that it?

"Why are you starting there and not in Poland?
I assume this has to do with flights...frequent flyer miles..costs..is that it?"

Dukey...Exactly. I have to do this with AA (American Airlines, not Alcoholics Anonymous) miles, so Prague works best for me.

We have never been known for our "Slow Travel" itineraries, so we decided, "Why start now?"

Actually, I think this trip isn't as frenetic as some of our sojourns over the years.

Plus, the more places we go the more things can go wrong, which means a better trip report. If our trip went perfectly, the trip report would be boring (of course, some might think that about my trip reports anyway).

((H))

Thanks for the response.

I am certain you will enjoy both Prague and Budapest if my own previous experiences are any example.

have a wonderful trip.

Degas, are you thinking a Borat sequel? :)

I've done a lot of the CR portion of your trip, as well as taking that train from Olomouc to Krakow, and I think it's okay. I enjoyed Kutna Hora a lot, good choice of a day trip. You might not want to take out another day just to visit one of those local castles, though. I think just visiting Vysehrad cemetery and park in Prague itself would be easier and maybe just as enjoyable. I've just heard those local castles aren't that great (Karlstejn, etc.).

However, you aren't going to drive from Prague to Cesky Krumlov in 2 hrs, it's too far. It shouldn't be more than 3, but you aren't going to be going that fast the entire trip from the moment you get in to your car (in Prague) until reaching it that you could do it in that time frame.

Christina...Thanks for all the info. I will probably delete the castle day trip, which I was thinking about doing before as I really don't want to short change Prague. I'm glad you liked Kutna Hora because it looked pretty interesting to me.

((H))

I wasn't going to say anything, but you brought it up yourself first...

I would have been really sorry to have arrived in Dubrovnik and only had two days there. Perhaps you could visit it, and all the surrounding, glorious areas another time and skip it this trip.

Your itinerary looks like tons of funs and I think fast paced is fine, but the Dubrovnik part really made me wince.

Yes Happy Cheesehead, I think I was trying to force Dubrovnik into the itinerary, but I believe it will have to wait for another day.

There's a morning train that gets to Zagreb about 1:30, so I think I'll rent a car, go to Plitvice Lakes, spend the night and 1/2 day the next day, and move on to Ljubljana.

Now another question.

I will take a train from Olomouc to Krakow, overnight train from Krakow to Budapest and finally Budapest to Zagreb. Do I just pay individually for each trip or is there a pass that covers any of this? Thanks.

((H))

Easytraveler wrote: "Usually rent in Paris and return to Paris. It takes about a day (600+ miles) to drive from Paris straight through to Prague. Distances are not great, there's just so much to see in-between all those miles in Europe!"

Before renting a car in a Western European country with the intention of taking it into an Eastern European country, check with the rental agency. Some will not let you take a rental car into Eastern Europe and some won't insure you. Apparently the theft rate is very high in Eastern Europe. I found this out when we were looking to drive from France to Hungary. We ended up flying.

Pavfec,

I have decided to rent in CR and return in CR, and rent in Croatia and return to Croatia. Drop-off charges are just too much. at least the ones that I have been quoted.

((H))

MTTom,

Please please consider the Gellert Hotel in Budapest!

Hotel guests have free use of all the spa facilities, and I promise you will have tales to tell.

We stayed there with four other couples several years ago and, yes, we are still laughing - think men in plastic shower-type caps and little aprons.

http://www.danubiushotels.com/en/bud...llert-budapest

Be sure to click the Photo Gallery to see the pools and spas.

I think there are at least a dozen, some inside, some outside, some men only, some women only, some co-ed.

Our rooms were very nice, all overlooking the Danube.

Byrd

" think men in plastic shower-type caps and little aprons."

I think I've seen those guys here in L.A. (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Hotel Gellert looks nice, but might be above our price line for this trip (29 days traveling means a little less pricey hotels and apartments this trip).

Thanks.

((H))

Hi Tom, not online too much lately, just being back from a trip ourselves and catching up. I couldn't tell you on the passes unfortunately. We were driving back in towards Budapest from Romania and picked up some northern Hungarian towns along the way. SO I haven't done the trains.

We've talked about going back to Budapest for a future special occasion (we got very attached) and was looking into what else we might combine it with. I'm a travel geek - I research trips sometimes that I'm not even sure we'll end up taking. Anyway, I did see that there was a train to Z that went via Pecs. Of course, the problem there is that people rave about Pecs too.....

Anyway, have a great trip. I'm looking forward to hearing about it. Leave a little of Budapest standing so we can re-visit.

Thanks Clifton. I also plan itineries for trips I have yet to take. Some day I will actually visit the Dordogne. We will leave a bit of Budapest for your return trip.

We have decided on cutting out Dubrovnik (reluctantly) and adding Plitvice. There is a train from Budapest to Zagreb. We can rent the car in Zagreb, do a quick trip down to Plitvice and then head back to Ljubljana. This way we pick up and drop the car in Croatia.

Anyone out there with an answer to my train question (or anything else about this trip). Passes vs. individual tix. Thanks.

((H))

I assume you know, but perhaps not, that you can go to www.railpass.com and input your itinerary to determine whether or not point to point tickets would be more economical than any pass(es) which might be available.

I know there is a Balkan Pass and also one covering Slovenia, Austria, etc., but not certain there is anything that covers all the countries you are visiting.

Thanks Dukey. No train pass covers all my countries we want to visit. It might be more affordable to have a car for 24 days and pay the heavy drop-off charge since it will be split between two couples, instead of taking three train trips and rent a car in two different countries with no drop-off charge.

I guess this is why I need to plan a year in advance.

((H))

ttt