Pre-trip report: lessons learned from three week europe trip
 

Let me put my comments in context. I came to Fodors after I spoke to a travel agent who said "no one can go to europe the first time unless they are on a tour". Users here helped me with every aspect of our trip from hotels, how to use the trains, where to eat, how to get money, etc. We were in France, Swizterland, and Germany.

Prior to my trip report I wanted to share what I learned:

1) If you plan on using the Paris subway DO NOT by the book of ten metro tickets. We tried that when we bought them for two of us. In getting from the aitport to the hotel we used up all then cause many times the turnstyle would not turn twice. A much better deal is buying a pass that is good for any combination of zones for several days. We bought those passes the second day and they worked great

2) There is no reason why not to take the metro from CDG to anywhere in Pairs. It was fast, easy, clean, safe and CHEAP!

3) Do not buy the breakfest at the hotel. In our case the breakfest was 8E a day and what we got was a corrsant and coffee. We could have waled down the street and bought the same corrsant for .50E and coffee, even fancy coffee for 1E

4) Use ATM cards and ATMs for money. Fast, easy, they are everwhere and great. However, check to see if your bank has a limit. My limit was $500 US a day, but I discovered they had a overseas limit of $250 US a day.

5) Europe seems to not like us sharing meals, we had many times when they were upset when we asked to share.

6) Europe seemed to expect tips like US standards, 15%. We did what Rick Steve's suggests and got rude responses.

7) The trains are the only way to go. It was like traveling as royalty. We rented a car twice and it was a huge pain.

8) Don't get parking tickets. We got one in France and it was a huge pain to pay it.

9) Don't ship stuff home. It was extemely expensive, several packages never made, and those that did where ripped to shreds and stuff was missing (somehow it was always the swiss chocolate bars).

10) If you are interested in World War II stuff use Battle Bus

12) A small backpack, cheese board, and corkscrew is the best way to do lunch. We stopped in the morning and got bread, cheese, meat, fruits, and wine.

13) If you rent a car do not rent a subcompact or compact. The compact is smaller then a geo metro and a subcompact is like a crushed beer can. Get a BMW, we had a 4 cylinder turbo diesel and we could barely get up to speed on the autobans. Get a BMW so you can go with the flow on the freeway.

14) Meals in France last for 2 to 4 hours. French live to eat, we eat to live. We had to beg for our check several time.

15) We found france and Swizterland were far more expensive then Germany. Two of us were eating in France for 100E a day, in Germany we could eat for 40E a day.

16) Public transportation is the best. Trains, subways, and buses are very effect and on time. Do plan to be late or you will be taking another train.

17) Reservation are not needed on trains and first class is not that much different then second.

18) Take a look at where the bathroom dumps on the train! (its right out the bottom on the track)

19) We never needed our passports or International drivers license, but they were nice to have.

20) Frankfurt airport is terrible. Once you get into the international area there is no resterants or anything.

Ok, so these are just are thoughts after our first trip.

Areinert, thank you for taking your time to type all this. And yes, the travel agents always say you can't do it on your own :)

Wow, 1st trip to Europe and already an expert on what you MUST and MUST NOT do. Your a quick learner.
Maybe better to phrase it "based on my experience it may be better to..."
I happen to enjoy Frankfurt airport.
I find the car a much easier way to travel.
I almost never tip more than the rounded up dollar amount and have never had a waiter glare at me.
Glad you had a good time though.

21) Don't make "Heil Hitler" salutes when having your picture taken in front of famous German landmarks. It's just rude.

Seriously, I appreciate people that share learning experiences with the forum, whether they are an expert or not (and I don't think areinert is claiming to be an expert).

Depending on how you define "international area," there is at least one restaurant in the international area of the Frankfurt airport - it was sort of like a 50's American diner type place (I can't remember the name). The funny thing about that airport was that we had to go through security twice to get to the final gate. After the second, more or less makeshift, security screen, there were no restaurants.

Very good--you are a quick study. I agree with most except the car thing. The compact is adequate for 2--what is wrong with a VW Golf or Opel Astra? About half the time I book a compact I get upgraded to a mid-size--like a Passat. Thanks for sharing.

Not sure I agree with everything, but you captured more realities than I did on my first trip!

To paraphrase Art Linkletter, travel agents say the darndest things.

Appreciate your "rules", but here's where I differ...

"3) Do not buy the breakfest at the hotel."

Why not? A breakfest sounds kind of fun. :) Seriously, this isn't an ironclad rule. Depending on what is offered and whether you get a pot (or free refills) of coffee, breakfast at a hotel *can* be on a par, financially, with having it elsewhere.

"5) Europe seems to not like us sharing meals, we had many times when they were upset when we asked to share."

Interesting. The only reason I can figure waiters would get upset with that is that you can generally remain at your table for quite a long time without being hustled to leave. Less turnover means less money so it would make sense that they'd hope to have more money per table, and sharing meals would likely *generally* mean less money per table.

"7) The trains are the only way to go."

Absolutely not. Having a car can be wonderful as it provides you with flexibility that trains -- as great as they are -- simply cannot match.

13) If you rent a car do not rent a subcompact or compact.

Again, no. I've never had a problem with compacts, even on autoroutes and autostradas.

We just had a car in the French countryside, and it was a real asset. I would like to know if it is an asset in Italy however. I should probably post a new thread to find out.

Wren, it depends. It's an asset in Italy if you want to explore the countryside or go to smaller towns not served by train. Even if buses go to smaller towns you're interested in, a car is still going to give you more flexibility, since you set the schedule (and can stop wherever and whenever you want between towns), rather than following the schedule of the bus.

Some good tips here, but also evidence of a first trip experience.

I can't imagine how you used up all those Paris métro tickets getting from the airport into Paris. I've never, ever found a pass to be a better deal than a carnet.

I also gave up taking the RER/métro in to Paris a few years ago - too crowded at rush hour when most planes land, too many escalators and stairs - sorry, after an all-night flight I don't want to get all hot and sweaty lugging bags through the métro.

I'v rented dozens and dozens of compacts and subcompacts all over Europe. Not only do I love the freedom of having a car - face it, the trains don't go to more places than they do go to - I've never found having a small car to be anything but an asset. The few times I've had a big one, it WAS a pain finding parking, squeezing through alleyways, etc.

Never experienced waiters expecting an American-like gratuity, either. If I leave some change in addition to the bill, which I usually do if the serice and food are good, they are always grateful.

Glad that you found out first-hand you could do this on your own!

While your intentions were certainly quite honorable, I think you err in making your statements sound too much like absolute rules. The 20 examples you gave were fine for YOU. Note, however, a few instances where I (and others) don't agree:
#1: We found it most convenient to buy the carnet of 10 tickets, since we were only using the metro within the central city of Paris.
#3: As Capo said, it depends on the hotel. We bought the breakfast every morning at our hotel and were quite satisfied.
#5: As for sharing meals...well, it's fine in the USA, but it just is not the custom in Europe. So, "when in Rome....."
#6: As previously stated, the tip is included with the check. Perhaps you misread the waitstaff responses.
(And, oh yes, you really did need your passport. Otherwise you never would have been allowed on the plane to fly over to Europe in the first place!)

Dear areinert:

Thanks for posting. You'll find as you travel more and get more experience, you may change some of your opinions. The car thing depends on where you need to visit. For the smaller towns and countryside it is great, but a real pain and stressful in cities. Plus with a car you tend to accumulate more goodies to lug home.

I have also been reluctant to mail things home, but on this last trip to Italy, we had accumulated so much, we ended up mailing a box of extra shoes, clothes, non-breakables etc. home. Everything arrived fine.

The trains dumping on the tracks is pretty wild. In Italy this last fall, I told my mom and sister to see for themselves. They didn't believe me and wouldn't check for themselves. They still think I'm making it up!!!

Look forward to your full trip report.

areinert, welcome to the world of travel, and as you see we all have different opinions. We travel to villages, , so for us, a car is a must because the roads are narrow and parking would be impossible.
Let's hear more about your trip.

I left out the word small. A small car very important!

Some thoughts:
I am goofy with tiredness when we arrive after an overnight flight, the last thing I would be capable of is finding the right train and lugging my ten ton bag along behind me. Taxis are affordable and easy!
I enjoy breakfast or at least coffee in my room while I am getting ready, so hotel breakfasts are the only way to go for me. I don't want to waste time sitting in a cafe, when I could be on my way to a museum or shopping!
Maybe they are just not used to the idea of meal sharing, since European (French) portions are not as large as American and they think you should be able to eat it all yourself.
Driving is scary and death defying but worth the freedom and the great stories you will have to tell when you go home.
I love my passport and look forward to using it soon.
smueller...LOL...don't put your arms around the Guards at Buckingham Palace to see if they will move, or try to get them to do the Silly Walk!

I have to disagree about food prices in France. We spent 21/2 weeks in different parts of France including Paris, and never spent more than 70E a day on food for a family of 4. Since we had a car, we did frequently stop at groceries for food. But, a typical day in Paris was a croissant and drink for breakfast 3E at a nearby cafe, a baguette sandwich from a nearby shop and a piece of fruit for 50 cents at 3.60 per sandwich and a bottle of water at 1 E, about between 20 to 30 Euros for dinner for 4( Chinese takeout, pizza (we have kids) once Indian,, crepes or large salad (on early dinner days)and the rest for snacks and drinks. We usually kept dinner at 13 E max throughout France, sampling specialities in areas where prices were less. (Huge bowl of mussels in Palavas for 8 E, regional fare in Dordogne for 10 to 12 E, large salads with local ingredients for about 8 E.We had no trouble sharing meals, but out of consideration, every person ordered something. For example, one of us ordered a small salad and the other ordered the pizza, and then we shared. Same for tipping. We would give a small amount as a 1 or 2 E and received an appreciative thank you.I did notice that the longer we traveled, the less generous we were in tips.
In contrast, a car was much more convenient and less expensive than the train for a family.
Also, we bought a book of carnets every day and usually used 8 a day for 4 days which was less money than a pass. I also agree that taking the RER to CDG with luggage and a family is not worth the few dollars you might save. We got a taxi for 4 for $55. No hassle, no steps.

Areinert- what is the Battle Bus? I googled it and didn't come up with anything. Thanks, CJ

I would risk to say that areinert wants to mean "bateau bus", or "batobus", which is similar to the vaporetto in Venice, or a water bus. However, it has nothing to do with the "II World War", that I know of. So, I wonder if he meant it, or something else.... By the way areinert spells French words, it would be hard to say.

While I was prepared to list my several disagreement with areinert's proclamations, my bottom line is that I'm glad to see that he did it; he didn't do the tour thing; he travelled independently; he took mass transit; he figured his way round; and he thus experienced the freedom of being on your own, someplace new, different and far away, which to me is the best part of travel. As for the Frankfurt Airport, a cute thing about it is that it actually has a dirty bookstore/adult movie arcade, as well as a disco. Can't recall another airport that offers those amenities.

First of all, to get from the airport to the hotel, you would not use the tickets in the carnet, which are good only for inside Paris; you would buy a special, more costly ticket for the RER (probably the reason the turnstile wouldn't turn).

Second of all, there are many car manufacturers that make mid-sized cars other than BMW. Renault Laguna, for example. It is the size, rather than the make that was bothering you.

We often share an appetizer with no problems, and have shared a main course (but, yes, the waiter did raise his eyebrows). One of my favorite ploys since I often don't want, can't eat a full meal is to order two appetizers, rather than an appetizer and a main course.

I have rarely found coffee for under 3E in cafes, but I do agree that hotel breakfasts tend to be overpriced. I was delighted to find that I could order just a pot of coffee at my hotel (un cafe simple) for 3E. That was a good deal, I thought.

Reservations are not needed on some trains, but are mandatory on TGVs (the fast trains).

I think you need to be careful about making sweeping generalizations based on your experience, for fear of misinforming people, but I applaud your taking control and doing your own trip!