Post-college backpacking trip
 

Hello all. I am traveling to Europe with two of my girlfriends after we graduate from college this summer. We will be traveling in late June for 21 days (so technically 19 days of actual traveling considering we are flying from the US).

We have decided on our itinerary and wanted to see what other traveling experts have to say. The three of us have been to Europe before and are experienced travelers. However, we have never gone backpacking and stayed at hostels. What are some tips you would give us as it is our first time backpacking? Another big dilemma I am having is whether I should bring a backpacking pack or a rolling duffel bag (NOT a suitcase)? We are also open to suggestions on what to do in each city and what is a good day trip to take from Florence.

Below is my itinerary.

Day 1: Arrive in Rome at 12 pm
Day 2: Rome
Day 3: Rome
Day 4: Rome – Leave for Florence– First night in Florence
Day 5: Florence
Day 6: Florence (Stay in Florence overnight, but take a day trip to Verona, or Chianti)
Day 7: Venice - Spend overnight train to Vienna
Day 8: Vienna
Day 9: Vienna
Day 10: Vienna – Leave for Berlin
Day 11: Berlin
Day 12: Berlin
Day 13: Berlin
Day 14: Berlin – Leave for Amsterdam
Day 15: Amsterdam
Day 16: Amsterdam
Day 17: Amsterdam – Leave for Barcelona
Day 18: Barcelona
Day 19: Barcelona
Day 20: Barcelona
Day 21: Leave for America

Thanks for your help!

Congratulations on graduating!

When do you travel to Venice? Are you planning to do this as a stopover day en route from Florence to Vienna?

I think Rome is worth more than two days, especially given the fact that you'll be getting over jet lag there. I'd take at least one day from somewhere else (Berlin maybe? I haven't been so not sure) and put it there.

With all the time you'll be spending on planes and trains and finding your lodging in new cities, I think you'll be very glad to have a backpack instead of a suitcase.

Since you're visiting cities and taking trains, bring a small roller bag - 19" or 21" at the most. It will be easier on you than a backpack.

Read hostel reviews and book ahead to get the best hostels. Bring combination locks as many hostel have lockers. Flipflops to wear in the showers.

For basin hand washing, buy Purex laundry sheets and cut them into 4 pieces. Each piece has more than enough soap for a basin wash. Also bring a sink stopper as many times the sink plugs don't fit tightly and the water runs out.

It may be less expensive to stay in a hotel with 3 beds rather than a hostel. It will also give you a change from the group environment.

You're short changing Venice - give it at least 2 days as it's such a magical place.

Check pricing on point to point tickets from each country's train web site. It may be cheaper than a rail pass. Read seat61.com for lots of helpful train information.

Check the Thorn Tree forum for backpacking advice and read Let's Go guide books for general safety, restaurant, laundry, hostel advice.

It's pretty funny that the first two responses gave you conflicting views on the backpack vs. roller bag question! LOL

I would skip Venice (you will only have a couple of hours) and add it to Rome, since your first day in Rome will be consumed with getting your luggage, getting to your hotel, checking-in, showering, etc., and then it will be time for dinner.

With only 2 days in Florence, I don't see how you have enough time for a day trip.

Get a backpack. My last several 3 week trips overseas I've used a 'Rick Steves' backpack. I don't usually take lots of clothes along and have managed quite well. I don't struggle a bit and find it less cumbersome than using suitcases, rollers or not. It's nice to have your hands free when boarding buses, trains etc.

I got a kick out of some of my fellow travelers who had 65 lb. suitcases who couldn't handle them and found that they really didn't need all the clothes they brought.

Thanks for the advice so far! Definitely helpful points to take into consideration.

I forgot to clarify a couple things:

The plan for Venice was to spend ALL day there. Get there in the early morning and take a train out of Venice around 11 pm to spend the 8 hr train ride sleeping en route to Vienna.

I have heard very different things about the whole backpack dilemma. I heard on one hand its better to bring a backpack since a lot of streets in Europe are cobblestone. However, I heard it can also get really heavy and too painful to carry on the back. We are planning on packing light and washing our clothes somewhere along the way.

Also, we have found cheap plane tickets to fly to Berlin, Amsterdam, and Barcelona. Unless someone suggests taking a train to some of these destinations?

Haha - that is funny, adrienne! I'm remembering back to my semester in London. We had two weeks of free travel at the end, and when I was packing I thought "oh, I'll just take my suitcase" (granted, a 24" or 26"!). After two trips during the semester to Paris and Spain, I was SO grateful that a friend of mine decided she hated free travel so much that she changed her flight home to skip free travel and let me borrow her backpack. :) Much easier when you're running to catch trains.

Whatever you decide to do, nicole, pack light! My roller bag doesn't have any trouble with cobblestones. But it's a carry-on size that I can easily lift over the stairs on the bridges in Venice or up onto a curb. A larger suitcase would be painful.

I would absolutely fly to Barcelona at least. I haven't been to Vienna, Berlin or Amsterdam so don't have as good a feel about distances there.

I've only backpacked once and the first day I threw out half of what was in my pack. Today's backpacks are much lighter. If you choose a backpack, go to REI or similar hiking outfitters and get a pack that fits your body.

I did specify a 19" bag which is what I take for 3-4 weeks plus a soft sided small duffle. The benefits of a roller bag is that you can add something small to carry over the handle. Look for a bag with good sturdy wheels.

Whatever you get, you need to be able to lift it over your head when fully packed to put it on the overhead rack on trains.

Berlin to Amsterdam is 6.5 hours on the train. I see tickets in mid June for E44. or E49 for a train with no changes.

I used to carry a backpack (smallish) but I've decided a roller bag is much more convenient. I have a very small one that will fit under an airline seat. On top of it, I can perch a little duffle bag that has a band that goes around the handle of the roller bag. They're both so small and light that I can carry one in each hand with no problem when there are steps. I can lift either one to put it on the overhead rack on a train. I pack very light, and by wearing things multiple times, I don't even need to do laundry, except perhaps for socks and underwear. I just use the hotel shampoo as detergent.

Speaking of hotels, since hostels charge per bed, and hotels charge per room, three people will often pay less in a cheap hotel than at a hostel. I use www.booking.com to find lodging. They list hostels and other types of accomodation along with hotels. You can specify a neighborhood, or just type "xxx city centre" as your destination, to weed out the places out in the boondocks. Then you can sort the list by price. Pay attention to the guest ratings, and read the reviews.

Booking.com has a very well-designed page to manage your bookings, making it easy to change or cancel a booking. Most places have free cancellation, usually at a higher price than that for reservations that are cast in stone. I usually prefer to pay more for the flexibility.

<i>Post-college backpacking trip
Posted by: nicolethenole on Apr 9, 14 at 4:19pm
However, we have never gone backpacking and stayed at hostels. What are some tips you would give us as it is our first time backpacking? Another big dilemma I am having is whether I should bring a backpacking pack or a rolling duffel bag (NOT a suitcase)?</i>

Aha, the old backpack versus rolling bag issue. The real question is how much to bring. See http://tinyurl.com/3yeqvt for some perspective on that.

I gave my daughter a couple months in Paris and Italy for her graduation a few years ago. In Florence she stayed at the Plus Hostel. I'm a geezer and have stayed in a number of hostels. The HI hostel in Dresden is a great stopover. It would be a good idea to book in advance for June and July. Advance bookings will help keep you on schedule also. After a couple days in Amsterdam you might just forget about Barcelona. I suggest a day trip from Amsterdam to Haarlem. If it is a hot day go all the way to Zandvoort for a dip in the North Sea.

That leg from Amsterdam to Barcelona is a stretch. You'll have to fly or spend a long time on the train. Check the schedules for trains and flights. If you fly you are facing severe luggage restrictions.

Hi nicolethenole,

Just one note about the backpack vs. suitcase question --

If you decide to take a backpack, I encourage you to be very, *very* mindful of the seated passengers when you board/walk through a train. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen somebody's face take a full hit from a backpack as the backpacker gambols down the aisle, unaware. You may even want to take off the backpack and hold it in front of you as you walk, just to make sure you don't swipe somebody's head.

If you are considerate like this, the other passengers will be appreciative, and they will be more outgoing and engaging with you during the train ride.

s

Thanks swandav2000 I was going to post similarly. I was knocked clean off my feet by a backpacker who was completely oblivious.

I assume you're all women from the original post. If so, there is a hostel in Trastevere, a very nice district of Rome with lots of students and night life. The hostel is at the International Women's House, and is for women only. The location is very nice and convenient, but I've never actually stayed at the hostel. I tried to book it once when I was traveling with my daughter, but it was fully booked.

http://www.foresteriaorsa.altervista...esteria_uk.htm

I don't think you have time for a day trip from Florence as there is so much to see there. I can't imagine Venice would be much fun carrying your backpack on you all day.

With that many trains in various countries the Eurail Youthpass is something to strongly consider - for folks under 26 and you can still just hop on any ole train any ole time in most countries - and consider taking overnight trains on the days when you are relocating long distances -

like Vienna to Berlin and Berlin to Amsterdam and Paris to Barcelona - save on the cost of a hostel and save daytime travel time.

anyway for lots of great info on planning a European rail trip check out these IMO fantastic sites: eee.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

Can you borrow a backpack from someone and fill it up and walk up and down stairs with it and see how you feel? You definitely don't want to get a backpain in a couple of days of travel that will spoil your fun for the rest of the trip. A lot of it depends on your physical size. I have seen petite women traveling who are obviously really overwhelmed by their backpacks.

I am very tall and in Italy I much prefer a backpack because of all the stairs one needs to climb, especially inside train stations, but also in places like Venice or hotels without elevators. A roller is useless. However, in other places, like Amsterdam, I have a roller bag with swivel wheels and I would never bother with a backpack there.

But give it a personal test with a real backpack as an experiment.

Whatever you decide to take, be aware of other travelers in transit! I am equally tired of oblivious travelers dragging their roller luggage so haphazardly behind them that they create constant tripping hazards and bang other peoples shins and feet without ever apologizing.

PS: If you decide to take a backpack and it ends up giving you pains, you can buy a luggage handcart/trolley in Europe for about 15euros and some bungee cords and switch to that for the remainder of your trip. You can buy cheap handcarts around train stations. Sometimes they come with shopping bags attached but those come right off and you can throw them away.

It's very unlikely that a rail pass will save you money, because many countries have deep discounts (nonrefundable) for advance purchase. In Italy, all of the trips you're planning can be had for €19 per segment, reservation included. With a rail pass, you'd have to buy a separate mandatory reservation on these trains, which would cost you €10.

From Venice to Vienna, you can get a bunk in a six-person (all women) couchette on the overnight train for €59 (SMART price, advance purchase). (It would be €99 per person in a 4-bunk couchette, and the three of you might even have it all to yourselves.)

On the overnight train from Vienna to Berlin, With advance purchase, you can get a bunk in a triple carriage for €65. From Berlin to Amsterdam, I don't think there are any convenient overnight trains. There are direct daytime trains, for as little as €79.

From Amsterdam to Barcelona, there are no convenient overnight trains. I would definitely fly on this segment.

Adding these prices up, I get about €300 worth of train tickets, including reservations and sleeping accommodations on overnight trains. I didn't choose the cheapest sleeping accommodations, but the 4-bunk carriage to Vienna and the triple carriage to Berlin. A 6-day youth select pass for 4 adjacent countries would be €290, and would not include reservations nor sleeping accommodations, which would be extra.

The idea of hopping on any old train whenever you want is no longer realistic, because most long distance trains have either required reservations or highly recommended reservations. You lose a lot of your flexibility anyway if you need to make a reservation, although sometimes you can make them at the last minute.

You can get all the tickets from Rome to Vienna here:

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD

You can buy tickets on the Vienna to Berlin and Berlin to Amsterdam segments here:

http://www.bahn.de/p/view/index.shtml

I think it's better to say you're resident in the UK or Ireland,to get English language, but in order not to be shunted onto the more expensive Eurail site. If this is not true, someone else will correct me, I'm sure. (For the Italian trains this doesn't matter.)

I use this site for finding budget flights:

www.skyscanner.net

A Eurail Select Youthpass for 4-countries - Italy, Austria, Germany and Netherlands (inc Belgium too) is p.p. 4374 or abut 52 euros an unlimited travel day and gives the option of choosing which trains to take once there. Discounted trains that bvience kindly go into so much detail on for the OP - those tickets are usually train-specific and sold in limited numbers so must be booked weeks often ahead of time and then cannot be changed nor refunded I believe.

so for trading flexibility how much can you save over 50 euros a train day? Well in Italy you must add 10 e reservation fee as bvienci explains to each ride but in the other countries you just hop any train anytime.

So it all depends on whether you want any flexibility or not - if fine with booking in stone weeks or months in advance then that is the way to go but if it does not save you very much money consider the flexibility point, which to me is priceless.

With a pass you would have to pay extra for any sleeping options on night train - pass covers the basic rail fare - you can get reclining seats on some trains for a few euros extra or a couchette for around 20-25 euros extra.

From Berlin to Amsterdam, I don't think there are any convenient overnight trains>

though there is a night train Berlin to Dusseldorf where you change to an ICE to Amsterdam - arriving there at 9:30 am no there is not a direct night train but practically so - it does depart Berlin a little late for oldsters at least, at 27 minutes after midnight. A CNL -a spiffy CityNightLIner German train.

Doesn't matter suitcase, duffle, or backpack, but I would definitely take the most lightweight piece you can fit your stuff into, that has wheels.

I wouldn't go to Venice for only 1 day. That a waste of time, effort, money to me for just a quick glimpse. Either stay a couple days or cut it (and I LOVE Venice).

"The idea of hopping on any old train whenever you want is no longer realistic, because most long distance trains have either required reservations or highly recommended reservations."

It probably depends on the country but in Germany, Austria and Eastern Europe I do it all the time without a problem.

If you travel on Friday afternoon from a major city or around a typical family holliday, trains will be very full. But Tuesday at ten I wouldn't bother. For me this flexibility to take a train an hour later or to stay a day longer is one of the big advantages of trains in comparison to flying.

As for backpack or suitcase/rolling duffel bag, I think that it completely depends on how you want to travel.

If you reserve hostels in advance and basically just go from airport to hostel to railway station to next hostel, then there's no reason why you shouldn't take a suitcase.

But if you might end up taking a side-trip to xxx on a whim and end up walking a hour through some fields to catch a bus, a backpack is the much better option.

If you want to take a backpack, and you aren't already a hiker, start wearing one now and go for 30-60 min "hikes" with a full pack. This will get your strength and endurance up, thereby alleviating many of the backpack concerns in this thread.

Get a backpack that also can be converted to a rolling one - with wheels that can be used when you want - like trekking thru train stations or doing longish walks but can convert to a regular backpack when you do not want the wheels out.

I have an EastPack backpack like this.

I disagree with the advice to get a backpack that can be converted to a rolling one. I tried that once and the bottoms of the backpack get extremely dirty rolling on the ground, so when you go back to wearing it, your clothes get dirty.

Also, the wheels are uncomfortable up next to your body and unless you invest in an expensive high-end one, the wheels are not good or stable. Plus the frame adds weight.

It is better to buy a lightweight aluminum handtrolley and bungee cords if you want the flexibillity of being able to roll a backpack sometimes. When you put the backpack on, you can strap the trolley to the backpack.

I don't have an opinion about railpass vs. no rail pass, but Hans is correct in pointing out that train hopping spontaneously is still a very realistic possibility for a great many travelers in many parts of Europe. Done all the time.

I also disagree about a rolling backpack. The frame/wheels mechanism adds a lot of weight to any bag. So either a normal backpack OR a rolling duffle/suitcase.

In this particular case, there are three rather short trips in Italy, all of which will be on trains which require reservations. Then, I assume, there will be two trips on overnight trains, which will require reservations unless you want to get just a seat instead of sleeping accommodations. Then, there's a six-hour trip from Berlin to Amsterdam, for which I'd want a reservation even if it weren't necessary. (I've done my share of seat-hopping on long trips.)

Of course, it's true that you can often get a seat at the last minute even on a train that requires a reservation, because not many trains sell out completely. I do a lot of train travel on short trips (about three hours or less) without advance reservation. I especially never reserve a train to take immediately after a flight, because I'm not sure which train I'll be able to get. For a long trip, though, I would always reserve in advance.

A last-minute decision about when to travel is much more expensive than buying well in advance and getting a deep discount. On a very long trip, the flexibility is limited by the hours in a day, unless you don't mind very early departures or very late arrivals. It's also constrained by infrequent departures, or infrequent direct trains. In those circumstances, you might as well reserve in advance and save a bundle.

A last-minute decision about when to travel is much more expensive than buying well in advance and getting a deep discount>

depends on how many such discounted tickets you are talking about - a German Railpass of say six day can produce unfettered fully flexible travel at fares less than the cheapest discounted tickets.

and involving a series of discounted tickets in several countries can be time-consuming tracking them down - dealing with fickle for many sites like trenitalia.com or www.voyages-sncf.com - and if you cannot get a discounted ticket on one leg and have to pay full fare - ouch - like Frankfurt to Berlin on bahn.de I believe full fare is about $130-140 by itself.

So yes if you are willing to spend hours getting all your ducks in order and can get them all those tickets could well be cheaper for folks not traveling on trains a lot of day - the more days on a pass the cheaper per day the pass usually becomes. And with Youthpasses the OPs qualify for the per day fee can rival the discounted fees.

Unless you can save a significant amount on discounted tickets then go for the pass and flexibility - and when I first went when I was there age I met folks in hostels, etc and decided to change my itinerary to go somewhere with them or to some hot spot folks were talking about.

So there are many factors about a railpass besides price. But granted the fewer the trips the more discounted tickets can save money and if someone has an itinerary in stone and is willing to commit months in advance that is a good way to go - everything buttoned down before leaving and just have to show up for the train (and not be late or you're out the whole ticket price usually).

If doing the discount ticket route you should start booking NOW - as soon as they come on line - often 3 months or at times 4 months before the actual train.

You can also get flexible airline tickets if you pay double or triple, but most people would rather save money.

In Italy, a discounted ticket can be exchanged for a full-price ticket, paying the difference, up until the departure time of the train, so you really don't lose the cost of the ticket; you just pay what you would have for a flexible ticket. Even the flexible tickets must be exchanged within a hour of the train's departure, so missing the train could also cause you to lose the cost of a full-price ticket.

Also, while the best discounts for Italian trains usually are snapped up quickly, especially on the more popular routes, you can often get discounts right up to the last minute on less frequented routes, and if you're willing to travel at odd times of the day, especially very early, you can often get last-minute discounts even on popular routes. In addition, there are some discounts that rarely sell out, such as the "Bimbi gratis" (kids free) discount that includes 20% off for the adults as well; or the two-for-one on weekends discount, or the low price for same-day-return trips (only on longer routes). These other discounts are mostly seasonal, but when you investigate ticket prices you should enter the number in your party, and the ages, to make sure you see all the discounts that could apply in your case.

The discounts on international trains are usually only available until two weeks before the trip, and it's better to book a month in advance.