possible spring trip to Greece
 

Greetings Fodorites. We're strongly considering Greece as one of our short-listed options for a May trip. Given that this would be our first trip to Greece and our interest in history and archaeological sites, we would concentrate on the mainland with a side trip to one island - that being Santorini.

Before I go any further, I want to say a very special thank you to yestravel and KarenWoo for their fantastic trip reports. We just reread the reports in the past few days as we continued our research and zeroed in on our interests, and the reports were very helpful to us.

What we're thinking in terms of overnight stays are as follows:

Athens, 4 nights
Nafplion, 3 nights, stopping in Corinth along the way and visiting Mycenae, Epidaurus, Tiryns, and Nemea from Nafplion
Kalamata, 3 nights, stopping in Sparta and Mystras along the way and visiting the Pylos, Methoni, and the Mani Peninsula from Kalamata
Olympia, 2 nights, stopping at Messene along the way
Delphi, 2 nights
Cape Sounion, 1 night
Santorini, 4 nights

What do you think of this distribution? Should we add and / or cut back time anywhere?

Any must-see archaeological sites on the Peloponnese I'm leaving out?

Do you have suggestions on places to stop between Olympia and Delphi, and also Delphi and Athens?

Thank you for your help.

Ancient Messene is fantastic. It’s a huge archeological site, off the radar for most international visitors. The day I was there in mid September were only about a dozen other visitors, and I had to wait for someone to walk into the stadium to give some perspective of size for my photographs. After our visit we stopped for lunch at a little taverna in the village overlooking the site, and got an overhead view. I don’t remember the name of the taverna, but if you can find it, it’s worth a stop.

That would be the Ithomi Tavern above Messene. Yum.

The Bradt guide to the Peloponnese will be immensely helpful in your planning.

Toward the end of this Flickr album are photos of Ancient Messene, including from the taverna FTOttawa named:

Take a day away from Santorini and move it to Napflion, so much to see there.

As you mention Mystras, you may be interested in medieval places too. In this case, you could add Monemvasia castle, Koroni, Ossios Loukas, Dafni monastery and Dafni monastery.
Cape Sounion can easily be done as a day trip from Athens,
The most famous archeological site in the Cycladid Islands is of course Delos which can be visited from Mykonos.
If you really want to enjoy the caldera and the stunning position of Santorini, reach or leve this Island by slow ferry.
Spend you last night before a transatlantic flight at Athens. Local flights or ferrries may be affected by bad weather conditions or strikes.

Taking into account all the mentioned points, I would get something like:

Flight into Mykonos (with plane change at either Athens or any other European airport).
Visit of Delos.
Fast ferry from Nykonos to Naxos plus slow ferry from Naxos to Santonrini.
Fllight from Santorini to Athens airport and car rental.
Motorway A6/A8 to Elefsis (may be with a detour via Dafni) - Korinthos .......
resp. Motorway A6/ A1 to Kastro - Livadia - Delphi (may be with a detour via Ossios Loukas Monastery)........
Last nights in Athens.

tripplanner001, thank you so much for your kind words. I am happy to know that my trip report and that Yestravel's report (whom we had dinner with in Nafplion) were of help to you in planning your trip.

Regarding what to change, if anything, you could take happyTrvlr's advice and take one night from Santorini and add it to Nafplion. Obviously, you know that we spent 3 nights on Santorini, so perhaps there is something you want to do on Santorini that we did not do that warrants an extra night. Or maybe you want a slow and relaxing end to your trip. If you weren't continuing on to Kalamata and visiting Mystras along the way, I would say an extra night in Nafplion is a necessity.

Many, many, many years ago :) I visited Cape Sounion as a daytrip from Athens. So I don't think it's necessary to spend a night there unless you will be arriving late from Delphi.

Thank you to everyone for your very helpful information so far.

Heimdall and FTOttawa, appreciate your validation of Messene as well as the dining suggestion. We'll make note.

HappyTrvlr and KarenWoo, thank you for the feedback on distribution. What we're running into is the availability of accommodation options, so we will see what we will be able to arrange. I have holds on refundable accommodations but a lot of places are already fully booked. My thoughts on 4 nights on Santorini are to end our trip more leisurely but also allow additional time to enjoy the times on the island when the cruise ships are not in port. I could also take out the night at Cape Sounion and add it to Nafplion; the thinking here is something other than the bustle of Athens but also being relatively close to the airport.

neckervd, I will take a look at some of the places you've mentioned. The medieval places are of interest; some of the photos of Mystras and other places reminds me of what I saw in Georgia and in Armenia, which I enjoyed. Afraid I won't have time for a second island on this trip unless we keep 4 nights in Santorini and visit a smaller island as a day trip on one of the days. Would Delos be too far to fit this bill?

Trip planner, it sounds as though you have already had the very intelligent idea of checking how many cruise ships are in port during the days you plan to be in Santorini. If it’s possible to choose a stretch of days with minimal visits, that’s a huge plus. Though I have to say the cruise crowds thinned out pretty quickly once we were hiking from Firostefani to Oia, and again at the top of the hill at Ancient Thira. If you keep your plan of four nights/three full days in Santorini, do consider the latter.

if you want to visit Delos in May, you must spend the night before at Mykomos town.
You can reach Mykonos by plane from Athens dp 19.10 or 20.35;
by slow ferry from Rafina (close to Athens) dp 17.30 - Mykonos ar 22.10;
by catamaran from Santorinii dp 13.35 - Mykonos ar 17.05

Further to what neckervd wrote, day trips to Delos from Paros and Naxos are available, but don’t start until late May or early June when sufficient numbers of passengers make the trips viable. Both times I’ve been to Delos have been while staying on Mykonos, where trips from there start around the beginning of April, as I recall.

FTOttawa, it seems like cruise ships are unavoidable these days but we're making an active effort to at least have times when the ships are not in port.

neckervd and Heimdall, thank you. Given our limited time, we don't expect to overnight on more than one island so we will save Delos for a subsequent visit.

Tripplanner001, you can’t see everything, so keep Delos in mind for your next trip to Greece. Even if you spent a night on Mykonos there is no guarantee you would get to Delos, as the small boats are sometimes cancelled in strong wind, and Mykonos is known as the windy isle. I was even more impressed with Delphi, so keep that in your itinerary.

Heimdall, you’re right. We could spend our entire time on the mainland or just as well our entire time island hopping. Given limited time and our interest in ruins, we’re erring on the side of a mainland trip plus one island so we can get a taste. We’re leaving out pretty much all of central and northern Greece in the process as well as the countless islands. But that’s what return trips are for.

3 nights in Santorini is sufficient. And I do love Santorini but you should find that’s enough time.

You’ve already gotten plenty of advice around maybe shortening Santorini by a night and I would agree. We spent 3 nights in Santorini and it was more than sufficient. One day we hiked from Imerovigli to Oia; one day we took a boat tour out to the volcano for a hike which then stopped at Thirassia before cruising back to port around sunset; one day we took the bus to explore Akrotiri. We had leisurely days and didn’t pack them full yet also felt like we saw/did all we wanted to. The views around the caldera around sunset are stunning and deserve time spent just soaking them in.

balthy and CaKnk, thank you.

Glad you took a night away from Santorini. Napflion is worth more time than Santorini.

Thank you once again for your generous feedback. The mainland portion of my trip now looks as follows:

Athens, 4 nights
Athens to Delphi, 2 nights, stopping in Thebes and Hosios Loukas Monastery
Full day for Delphi
Delphi to Olympia, 2 nights, stopping in Nafpaktos and at Rio-Antirrio Bridge
Full day for Olympia
Olympia to Kalamata, 3 nights, stopping at Messene
Day trip to Pylos, Methoni, and Nestor Palace
Day trip to Mani villages and Dyros Caves
Kalamata to Nafplion, 4 nights, stopping in Sparta and Mystras
Full day for Nafplion
Day trip to Mycenae, Nemea, and Arcocorinth
Day trip to Epidaurus and Tiryns

Any worthwhile ancient or Byzantine sites I've overlooked? Things we may want to consider doing differently?

Your trip looks great! Have fun! Here is some feedback on what we liked:
- Nemea was one of the highlights of our Greece trip. There was virtually no one there, we really like the museum, and you are able to walk among the ruins.
- When we were in Nafplio, we enjoyed the archeological museum and the Peloponnesian folklore museum. We spent 3 hours exploring Palamidi fortress (there are a lot of hidden spots to explore!).
- We did a kayak tour that started in the port of old Epidavros that included a stop to snorkel above some sunken ruins. It was our favorite part of the trip! We stopped at Epidaurus ruins afterwards and sadly didn't have much time before they closed, but the kayak trip was worth it and the guide fantastic! I believe they do kayak trips out of Nafplio around the port there, too.
- If you find you need to relax in Nafplio, go to the ruins of ancient asine (there isn't a lot left, unfortunately) and then relax on the beach that is just below the ruins. Several euros will get you a couple lounger chairs under an umbrella and a beverage. There was almost no one there and we spent hours there! We had a similar looking itinerary in Nafplio and ended up cutting out a few ruins since we were feeling maxed out on ruins (for example, we skipped Tiryns but saw Mycenae). The relaxation was just what we needed to recharge.

TRip planner, I totally envy you that extended time in the mainland ... I've visited the majority of those site, but it took me several trips. I wouldn't change that sequence at all... but would make ONE big change -- Flip Santorini to the FIRST, and with final 4 days/nights in Athens, Why? I'll list the reasons that many of us "vets" offer, based on our experience, and how we see our "newbie" companions reacting to a "Athens last" Approach:
• Staggering off from an uncomfortable exhausting transatlantic flight and sometime added stress of preparing/getting away, one's not in top shape to undertake heavy-duty sightseeing in a bustling Capital City -- that doesn't even use the same alphabet!
• It's SO Much more relaxing to get over jetlag on an island, just sitting on a balcony gazing at The Famous Caldera View, recouping and re-energiizing
• A couple of Island days & almost 2 weeks driving/sightseeing on Mainland & Pelops will famliarize you with "how greece works" -- enabling you to be much more knowledgeable and efficient in navigating the fascinating sightseeing possibilites of Athens
• After being immersed in Ancient Greek history for 2 weeks, the world-Famous Landmarks of Athens will resonate So much more with you!
-- one final reason (v. important to water-baby me), IF you value swims, doing Santorin (Not a beach destination) first, will give a little more time for Greek seas to warm up.. and there are ver ynice beaches all over the Peloponnse.

IF this proposition appeals, it's very easy & efficent because Santorini has THE most available flights of any island. Just allow 2 hours "layover" & board a domestic flight, it's only 50 minutes, and less than an hour after landing you can be sitting on your balcony, drinking in the View (and also maybe the famous Santorini Assytriko White wine... a citrusy wonder). After your time there, take an early morning (bargain) flight back to ATH, pick up your rental car, and start your mainland Adventure!

CaKnK, thank you. Appreciate all the suggestions for the Nafplio area.

traverljan, thank you as well. We'll actually be hiring taxis or going on private tours for the mainland portion of the itinerary as we're not drivers. At the moment, it's unclear whether or not we're going to Santorini. Leaning towards sticking with the mainland as Santorini will be visited by several cruise ships each day towards the end of May.

Based on our current itinerary, we would have about 1.5 days in Olympia - the afternoon coming from Delphi and all day the next day. Reading through options, there does not seem to be much in the area other than the ancient archaeological site and the museum. How much time would you allocate for Olympia? Do you think 1 night is enough as opposed to 2?

Looking at flights, assuming no delays, we would land in Athens at 7pm or 8pm. Should we continue onto our destination from there, which presumably would be Delphi or Nafplion?

Thanks again.

Tripplanner, when seeking the best advice, it's always good to say where you're coming from (unless you're in a witness protection program he he) -- someone travelling from West coast US has much longer more tiring journey than a New Yorker.

ARRIVAL DAY - in any case, landing at 7 or 8 pm means night drivng even in May -- and except for Greece-familiar "veterans", nobody recommends night driving. Some (afffuent) contributors recoommend staying at the (very pricey) Sofitel Hotel right next to AIport building (the ONLY hotel on airport territory -- kickback?). But the rest of us recommend a couple of nearby moderate-price alternatives that offer shuttle to/from airport (1) HOTEL AVRA, in nearby port of Rafina.. overlook a beach, a few hundred yards from shady village square w cafes for meal or snack. (2) PERIS HOTEL - small family-run hotel, good reviews, with nearby "Pizza place" for snack or meal. With both of these, u can collapse for early night, & shuttle next AM to airport for rental car, refreshed for a drive.

OLYMPIA -- One night is plenty -- THe "town" itself is mainly 1-2 long streets lined w hotels & mediocre cafes for visitors. Arrivingi Afternoon, u wiil benefit from most crowds just leaving .. I hear that the ruins area is very atmospheric iin late-day light. BTW, please do solid advance prep, with good guidebook or online print-outs, or the massive ruins-site won't make much sense. For some greece sites, you can buy downloadable audio guides, but I don't know about Olympia. The museum is more user-friendly... but some prep increases appreciation of the Temple of Zeus sculptures. I arrived late day, stayed at nice modest Hotel Hercules, & hotelier gave me great tip; he said all the bus-trippers go firstt in AM to outside ruins, so I should instead go museum @8:30 am - I did, & it was EMPTY... very good .. as I left at 1 - a huge line was pouring in.

The kickback for Sofitel is having a very comfortable bed only steps away from the passenger terminal. I’ve stayed there a couple of times on my less than affluent military pension. Great for late arrivals and early departures.

I’ve also stayed at Hotel Avra in Rafina a couple of times, and highly recommend it, especially if you arrive a little earlier but don’t wish to go into central Athens. Rafina is a nice little port town, and Hotel Avra sits on a hill overlooking the ferry docks. There are some good tavernas in Rafina for your first Greek meal.

You were planning on hiring a driver or joining a small tour, not driving yourselves, right? Doubtful that many of those will be interested in leaving at night, and you’d miss the sights along the way.

I’d spend the night in Athens and leave the next morning. Stay somewhere convenient to rendezvous with the operator you choose.

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. Seems like it will make the most sense for us to just begin in Athens after we land, as it will be one less hotel change. Travel from the airport to the city center is pretty straightforward throughout Europe, so I assume Athens is no different.

Appreciate the hotel suggestions though, as we could use one the night before we fly out.

FTOttawa, yes, we are being driven all around the mainland. We’ve been in contact with taxi companies and tour agencies based in Delphi, Kalamata, and Nafplion, and have pieced the different legs together.

travelerjan, we’ll be coming from DC. When going eastbound, we’ve relied heavily on the late evening British Airways flight to Heathrow, as the schedule works perfectly for us.

THanks for the clarification ... it would have been nice to have the relevant facts up front (suggestions for next time)

I'm currently looking at day hike options at or or near some of the places we may be visiting and came across some promising suggestions around Delphi as well as on Santorini. On Santorini, it looks like there may be good options away from the busy Fira to Oia corridor, so I'm wondering if there could get away from the cruise ship crowds after all. Near Delphi, I'm specifically looking at the ancient footpaths. On Santorini, the trail from Pyrgos to Ancient Thira and the southeast coast is appealing as are Meghalochori to Plaka and Nea Kameni. Anyone with experience on any of these? Other trails that you've enjoyed in or near Delphi or around the Peloponnese? Thank you.

From Pyrgos to Ancient Thira is quite vertical. We only did the last little foot bit. The shuttle bus passed some hard-toiling pedestrians. Have a look at the switchbacks on Google maps.

Thanks FTOttawa.

Coming back to the question of Santorini or no Santorini. I understand the consensus is to only allocate 3 nights to Santorini rather than 4, but I'm having trouble trying to fit everything we would want to do into 2 full days rather than 3. My current thinking is:

Day 1 - Arrive midday. Get settled into our hotel (caldera view in Imerovigli). Walk to Fira. Time in Fira. [I'm also thinking about flipping Oia and Fira, as there will only be one cruise ship in port in the evening. How much time would you recommend for Oia? Half day?]
Day 2 - Walk to Oia. Time in Oia.
Day 3 - Pyrgos, Ancient Thira, Arkotiri, wineries. Some hiking if it makes sense.
Day 4 - Caldera cruise with visit to volcano (hiking) and Thirasia Island.

Should we combine some of this into one day?

Thanks.

I think your itinerary in Santorini is fine as planned.Half a day in Oia is plenty IMO. You can walk down to Amoudi and have a meal by the sea at one of the lovely tavernas, 3 nights is usually enough but as you have found plenty to fill your days, why not have that extra night. I didn't do any long walks nor did I go to Thirasia.

Fira didn’t do it for me, other than the museum which was a brief visit. So, that is one option for squishing your time allocation.

IIRC the bus towards Oia stops near Imerovigli, but going the other way it takes a different highway to Fira. So perhaps bus to Oia and walk home? Just be aware that whatever time the little signpost says it will take to walk to Oia from your starting point, double it. Perhaps if you walk to it, take a taxi home.

For your winery visit, Venetsanos is well located near your other destinations and offers gorgeous views with or without sunset. Tasty wines, too.

With only three nights in Santorini, we didn’t have time for the caldera cruise, so if that is high on your wish list…yup, four nights,

BY the time you reach Santorini, you will have had many walking opportunites so I see no point in overlong walks in Santorini. Frankly the reason that Fira-Oia walk is mentioned so often is that Santorini doesn't really have many good walks. For thoughts, see below.

As for when to go to Fira -- cruise crowds are not the only factor! In May you'll also haveto contend with large PAckage-tour crowds that arrive by jumbo jet or Large ferry, and also invade Oia from charter busses. When should you AVOID OIa? From 10 Am - 4 pm -- this is when all those package/cruise mob invade -- they literally jampack narrow lanes. I remember once, with 2 "newbies" who lingered too long for photos, and were hit by "people tsunami" coming up the only entry lane - my 2 quite shaken by the experience. Between 4-7pm, something of a lull... then, here they come again!! Not cruisers, but hundreds (thousands?) pouring in because of website ballyhoo about Oia Sunsets! They pack riimside walls & stand for up to 90 minutes elbowing each other, awaiting the supposed magic sundown. Then they all try to get on the local bus at once. My tested solution? Taxi up to OIA at 8 AM, and have 2 hours to stroll and photoo in peace... that's enough. Besides the view, only shops to see. When mobs come, you GO.. and the walk from Oia to Imervogli is quite enough. If you want another walk, On arrival day, get bus schedule from your landlady & where to stand, Take bus from IMervogli to FIrostephani... and get off & walk 30 feet Taverna Aktaion right by rimside wall... oldest Taverna on island. Have a beer, lean on wall, loook at view. Walk dowon rimpath to FIRA Town-- Stay on RImside path til it widens to big promenade, near the Cathedral. If u want sunset & dinner without crowds & at reasonable price, go to top-floor terrace of Stani Taverna... if u want a top table, call ahead; they'll honor your reservation & will not require (bribe) tip, as many in Oia may. Then taxi back to Imervogli.
Hikes? We enjoyed Ancient Thira -- and NO crowds from cruise or package tours. 4 of us split a taxki that took us halfway up to the turnaround... we hiked up another 2o minutes, and walked all around the site. If u want to get most from it, do homework -- I lucklyl was there w 2 architects/ancient history buffs. Bring water & snacks or picnic... We walked all way down road...about 20 switchbacks, & caught a bus to Fira.

You have obviously found things you want to do and see on Santorini so 4 nights is fine. You shouldn't omit things you want to do because some people recommend only 3 nights. There are also people who recommend only 2 nights. We stayed 3 nights on Santorini but we didn't do the caldera cruise. It's important to you so that is what you should do. I always believe that you appreciate a place more the more time you spend there. For example, I fell in love with Cordoba, Spain when we spent 2 nights there. Many people visit Cordoba as a daytrip, and I honestly don't think I would have liked or enjoyed Cordoba as much if we did only a daytrip there.

Thank you all so much for your incredible feedback and help. It's hard to know what makes the most sense when it comes to some of these decisions, especially with places on where I don't have first-hand information, but I trust the feedback Fodorites have given me over the years so I definitely give what you have to say added weight. Good to know that 4 nights on Santorini may not be overkill. I guess worse case scenario, we may have lighter days then we anticipate, but there are worse places to chill out than at a terrace overlooking the caldera. Still going back and forth on whether or not we will ultimately include Santorini, but have hotel rooms on hold if we do.