Portugal plus Spain or Spain plus Portugal
 

We are 2 couples in our mid 50's planning 15 days this May/June to visit Portugal and Spain. We are interested in historic sites, vineyards, a mixture of city and village destinations and of course perfect weather :-)
Proposed itinery includes;
Fly to Lisbon and head straight to Sintra for 3 nights
Travel from there to Evora for 2 nights
Head to Sevilla for 3 nights
Back to Portugal to the Algarve (not sure where) for 3 nights
Back to Lisbon for 2 nights then home to TO

We are also considering flying from Sevilla to Madrid or Barcelona for a couple of nights?Our Dillema is that we don't want to short change Spain? Is there a better combo which would give us a better balance of both countries?

We are cognizant of costs and our limited time and are currently exporing cost differences to fly in and out of 2 destinations verses including a quick internal return flight. Are our plans too ambitious?
Your insights are appreciated. Joy

You have outlined a trip to Portugal with Sevilla added on. YOu could easily spend the whole two weeks in Portugal like we did. Spain is a very large country and we have been there twice, the last time for a month in the northern part.
I think you should choose one or the other.
Why three days in Sintra? It is an easy day trip from Lisbon on the train. And why the Algarve instead of heading north to Porto and the Douro Valley since you mentioned vineyards.
Evora is lovely and there are vineyards in the Alentejo region.
You could visit southern Spain and add Lisbon but I find it better to concentrate on one country with only 14 days.
Since it's your first trip flyinto Madrid and take a train to Andalucia. Or fly into Lisbon and explore Portugal.

For Spain, check out www.mariblesguides.com for excellent ideas, and suggestions.

I like your plan---I did the same trip on my first trip to Portugal. Try to inlcude Obidos and Nazare from Sintra if you can. Have fun !

In 15 days you cannot see Portugl and Spain. You can see a good part of Portugal and parts of Spain - either mid and south or mid and north.

In 3 weeks we landed in Lisbon and saw the immediate are, drive to Seville, saw some of Andalusia and then drove to Madrid. We saw parts of everything - and that was 3 weeks. In 2 you're going to need to choose. (Have been back to Spain - Andalusia for 12 more days to see things we had missed) - but seeing everything isn;t possible unless you do noting but trvel from one place to another.

Joy T:
You might be interested to note our 14-day trip into Portugal only, in spring of '08. Like Bob the erstwhile Navigator did for his first trip, we concentrated on the following itinerary...saving Porto and the Douro Valley for another visit. Being from beach-lined California, we gave no thought to the Algarve.

Lisbon 4 nights, on to Arraiolos in the Alentejo for one night at the beautiful pousada...visited Evora for half a day and Estremoz for lunch and look-see. Drove on up to Marvao, spent the night at its pousada for some great scenic views of the "plain in Spain"...continued on to the Sierras and Belmonte and stayed at the pousada (I had some research to do there)..then drove to Tomar and Obidos for three nights (visited Nazare' as Bob did) and spent the last three nights in Sintra, also visiting Cascais and Estoril)..from there to airport. Very pleasing introduction to Portugal. Having been to many regions of Spain on several visits, I had no desire to couple the two countries. Can recommend additional lodgings in places stated above.
sft

I agree with the previous poster I'd probably stick with an all Spain or all Portugual itinerary. With only 3 nights for Spain in which you are visiting Sevilla it's already shortchanging Sevilla!

Personally I don’t see Maribels guides helping with this one.
For the wine regions in southern Portugal read this where I responded to similar request for information about wine.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-need-help.cfm

You should just do part of Spain or part of Portugal Slow Travel is my by line!

Thanks for your input and great suggestions. We will definately change things up to focus on Portugal and enjoy a few days in Sevilla even though it is not enough!! Thanks for link to wine region in southern Portugal.
We are planning to rent a car but have been warned not to drive in Lisbon or Sevilla, any suggestions. Thinking we would pick up rental at Lisbon as we head to Sintra.From there we are planning to visit Obidos and Porto and will now add Nazare. Will rethink the internal Portugal. Still researching pousada options for lodgings. Any suggestions on the Algarve? We want to have some beach time before we head back to Lisbon. We have a lead on an apt in Carvoeir.

For sake of minimizing packing & unpacking you can established base in Lisbon and do day trips to Sintra & Evora. Sintra is less that an hour by train; Evora - 1.5 by bus. If you stay near Sete Rios you'll have walking distance to bus, train & metro; we were staying at Novotel but there are lots of hotels nearby. 2 full days in Sintra is OK.

Getting to Sevilla from Lisbon is quite long (but doable) by bus. Bus or train to major points in Algarve is 2.5-3 hrs and bus from Algarve to Seville (200-250 km) another 2.5-3 hrs. Plane service from Lisbon to Madrid & Barcelona is cheap and frequent; not so to Sevilla (only nonstop is by Spanair & quite pricey)

Here is my trip report (if interested)
http://harryk.hostzi.com/TripReport.html

Joy...are you saying you flying into Lisbon drive to Sevilla but also want to visit Sintra Obidos and Oporto? That is some journey
Maybe post again with a full run down of your timetable, as I think I may have got this all wrong.
Yes driving in cities does not make any sense. That includes Oporto.

Maribel has a downloadable guide to Sevilla on her website which you should find very helpful.
Instead of the Algarve, why don't you visit a beach on the coast between Lisbon and Porto as it would work better with your itinerary.
We found the pousadas to be good choices; they vary as to level, but all had good dining rooms.Many offer discounts.

Didn't read all the posts here, but yes: sintra, sintra, sintra!!!!! Castelo dos Mouros is like a miniature Great Wall of China, but not for those with acrophobia, and much stamina is required to wall even some of the ramparts. The 19th cent. palace of the port. royal family sits on a mountain peak and is absolutely breath-taking! Like a fairy-tale palace.

But you might consider going to the walled town of obidos!! Beautiful white-washed buildings trimmed in gold and blue. You can walk completely around on the ramparts and: photo possibilities are endless! Nice shops and cafes/restaurants too! But lots of flies in summer. But don't let that put you off. The experience is worth it, just prepare to swat!

Seville is outstanding! The alcazar palace, cathedral & giralda, plaza de espana, a walk thru parque maria luisa! If you havent seen a bullfight & that's something you want to do, then check out la maestraza corrida. a very unique cultural experience. If matador D. Chavez Lopez is still performing, you'll see a very good matador. You're also in the region for flamenco! One thing though, I hope you don't mind hot temps! We were there in april 2006 and we kept saying, "I'm glad we didnt decide to visit the andalusia "frying pan" during the summer. Have a great trip and stay cool!

If you want to visit vineyards in Portugal I can recommend the book we bought to plan our trip (we really love visiting wine country) - it was called something like the Food and Wine Lovers Guide to Portugal. It was written by a British couple who are wine importers/journalists, and has info on all the vineyards, which can be visited, what kind of wine they produce, etc. Also it is a great guide for what else to do in any particular area, with restaurant, hotel and site info. The key to having a successful wine tourism trip in Portugal is planning, since only a fraction of their wine industry is set up to receive tourists, and of those, almost all are "by appointment only" especially if you need your tour in English. I bought or borrowed almost a dozen books on Portugal, but this was the only one I took with me.

We've done Spain twice now, and similar caveat for visiting wineries in Spain, although they are a few years ahead in terms of being set up for tourism.

Good luck - you will enjoy your trip no matter where you decide to go. Everything you listed is wonderful to visit.

We just returned from 10 days in Portugal, renting a car at the Lisbon airport, driving to Ericeira and up the coast to Obidos that day, staying at Estalagem do Convento for 3 nights, then returning to an apt in Lisbon for the remainder. We totally enjoyed Obidos and the inn (at 90 euros a night) was a huge bargain, esp. compared to the posada. We checked out the public portion of the posada and found it dark and gloomy. Were glad not to have paid more than twice the room rate for the privilege of staying there. We were given a suite at Estalagem do Convento for unknown reasons, with TWO bathrooms!, a balcony overlooking the garden, living room and large bedroom. The staff were friendly, knowledgable, and helpful. Wonderful breakfast in underground very atmospheric room with columns, arches, and candlelight. Would recommend it to anyone. The town was charming and fun to walk around. We arrived on a Wednesday and caught the last hour or so of the weekly market.
Our stop in Ericeira on the way was also picturesque -- found a tiny restaurant where we chose the fish we wanted the owner to grill for us on a teensy grill out in front of the restaurant. We didn't stay long but thought it was charming.
Stayed in one of Paulo's apartments in Lisbon. Apt. was very nice, spacious, clean, amply furnished, located on Plaza Luis Camoes, which unfortunately turned out to be party central for all the bar-goers in the general vicinity. We arrived there on Saturday and Saturday night is, of course, the big night for bar hopping. Young people were streaming down into the plaza in front of the apt from midnight til about 4 a.m. Lots of hearty singing/bellowing. Nothing scary, just very very noisy. Even with windows and shutters shut. Lots to see and do in Lisbon, a great walking city. We found grocery stores (supermarket size and crowded with more than 3 people size) in the vicinity and bought groceries to save money on eating out. Easily spent 5 days investigating the different neighborhoods. I've been to Spain half a dozen times and loved it, but think you should save a separate trip for Spain when you can do it justice. Packing and unpacking just seems like a waste of travel time to me.

Thanks for all your advise. Now looking at 12 days arriving on May 22 in Lisbon. Staying for 3 nights in Lisbon (TBD near Sete Rios?) and taking day trips to Sintra, Obidos and Nazare. Renting car in Lisbon and travelling to Evora and staying for 1 or 2 night (thinking Albergaria) and exploring Alentejo region.
On to Savilla for 2 or 3 nights (Hotel Murillo?). Finish at the Algarve for 5 nights. Not sure where on the Algarve. Return to Lisbon.
Looking for suggestions on accommodations. Would like to be able to cook meals and be close to market esp in the Lisbon/Algarve.

When we went to Algarve last year; stayed in Oceano Atlântico Apartments in Portimão, http://www.oceanoatlantico.com.pt/en/
I like the place. Apartments are at least for 4 people (1 bdr T1); there are also bigger ones. Each apt had balcony; fully equipped kitchen, washer & 42" flat screen TV with lots of channels. Place has pool; free parking; located in 10 min walk from beach and 3 large supermarkets (we liked Continente the best). You can also book them way cheaper than price on their website. PM me @ [email protected] if need info.

You are staying in Lisbon 3 nights and then doing day trips on the two days you will be there? That doesnt make much sense to me. We spent 5 days in Lisbon over new years this year and just loved it. Do you not plan to spend any time in Lisbon?

Here is our trip report:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...l-20102011.cfm

I just finished reading your report jamikins, very enjoyable and informative. Thank you. Thinking of enjoying Lisbon at night (3) and on the 4th day. Also may have some time upon our return.
I know it is never enough. Any thoughts?
Thanks Harry for link. How many nights would be ideal in the Algarve?

Joy, consider Tavira in the Algarve. It's very close to the Spanish border (one and a half hour to Sevilla) and it's still pretty unspoilt. Anyway, no noisy young tourists. We stayed there in a condo (in Cabanas de Tavira, more precisely) for 10 days last year and we loved it there. We are going back this June for 9 nights, but first we will be touring northern and central Portugal. We will start in Porto (3 nights), then on to Sintra for 6 nights (we prefer a quiet location rather than being in a city), then on to the Algarve. Can't wait!
TIP: make sure you're allowed to cross the border with your rental car!

Glad you enjoyed it!

Lisbon was our favourite place. I'd personally cut a night from Algarve and add it to Lisbon but then I am not a big beach person and have no interest in the Algarve.

Keep in mind you lose 1/2 a day when you move around so the 4th day you will need to factor in time to get the car, find your way out of Lisbon and then drive a couple hours to Evora, which doesnt leave much time to explore Lisbon. If you only spend 1 night there you will not really be able to 'explore' alentejo with that amount of time.

If you factor in 3 hours to get the rental car in Lisbon, get out of town, and then over to Evora (if you're going directly there) that should be enough. It's not a full half day that you lose.

Quick reminder - when leaving Lisbon in your rental car to get to the highway, you will go over a bridge. Immediately after the bridge (almost at the end) there is a tiny tiny tiny sign to the highway you need on the right - it looks like an inconsequential ramp. It isn't! Be sure to look for it. That will save you a good half-hour plus a lot of stress.

My point was that they are expecting to see Lisbon that day but by the time they check-out, find the rental car place, drive out of Lisbon and then 2 hours to Evora they wont have time to see much of Lisbon.

We have booked our bases in the Algarve CARVOEIRO,and Santa Cruz(Marillo apt) in Seville. Our dilemma is whether we should drop the car in the Algarve and get the train to Seville and then to Lisbon or keep the car. We are weighing convenience and costs. The car would be parked most of the time in Seville. Finding a train connector from the Algarve to Seville is also not straight forward. Any advise???

You can drop your car in Faro; there are 2 daily buses to Sevilla http://www.eva-bus.com/novo/gen_pdf....ESTINO=Sevilha

Actually this bus originates in Lagos so you can depart from Portimao (closest major town to Carvoeiro) http://www.eva-bus.com/novo/lagos_sevilha.php No need to go to Faro unless car drop off is more convenient there

If you like vineyards, the Douro Valley is stunning.

Thanks, I am hearing you think we should drop the car (Lagos/Faro) and take bus to Sevilla and then train to Lisbon verses drive. Heard the bus was a milk run?

We are staying in Evora also for 2 nights and hope to explore some vineyards. Douro Valley does look amazing.Northern Portugal will have to be saved for a return trip.

Also looking for advise on where to stay in Lisbon so we are close to transport for trips to Sintra and Obidos.Thinking Rossio area? Any favorite boutique hotels or apts?

Douro valley is way too far to the north for JoyT's trip.
Joy when hiring a car in Portugal can you let us know how you get on with the new electronic toll roads. There is a great lack of information s to what car hire companies are doing about this.
Thank you