Portugal and Spain June 2014
 

I'm leaving next month for a two week trip through Portugal and southern Spain. Going with DH and two DDs - 16 and 18. Have been researching like mad with Rick Steves, Lonely Planet and Fodors, reading trip reports and scrolling through threads here, and reading reviews on TripAdvisor. Have gotten some great ideas and advice here on this site, as always! I'd love feedback and comments on "don't miss" sights and restaurants, and I have a few specific questions on areas of the itinerary that I'm still working on. Accommodations are already booked for all but a few nights.

Day 1 - land in Lisbon, get car and head out for Evora. See Evora as well as we can with jet lag. Any suggestions of where to eat? It will be a Sunday - many restaurants are closed.

Day 2 - guided morning tour of megaliths around Evora. Leave afternoon and drive to Cordoba for one night and one day. Considering flamenco at Arte y Sabores de Cordoba due to rave reviews on TripAdvisor and positive comments here from kimhe, who clearly knows a lot about this subject. Show starts at 10, with an option for dinner at 9. I imagine the food won't compare to restaurants I've seen recommended, but will we be able to eat out somewhere else and still make a 10 pm show, or should we just give in and eat at the flamenco place?

Day 3 - see Cordoba: Mezquita, Roman Bridge, Jewish Quarter, Alcazar. A lot for one day. Depart afternoon for Granada, where we will spend the night (and the next 2).

Day 4: Alhambra tickets (already purchased - thanks Fodorites for that heads up!), morning entry, and booked a private tour with Juan based on recommendations on this forum, I think by ekscrunchy. After Alhambra, wander around the Albayzin. Sleep in Granada.

Day 5: Day trip to the Alpujarras. Has anyone been? Recommendations for lunch and hiking? Back to Granada for the night.

Day 6: Depart early for Ronda. Here I really need some help. Original plan was to high-tail it straight to Ronda, spend the rest of the day and night there. Then the next day drive around the other hill towns and head up to Seville. Then I read about Antequera (on the way), about the megalithic tombs just outside the city, about El Toreal Nature Reserve just to the south, and about Laguna de Fuente de Piedra (flamingo breeding grounds!) just to the north. We love hiking, natural attractions and wildlife - we could spend the whole day in that area! If we do, we will get to Ronda in the evening, see Ronda the next day, and will have to cut short our tour of the other hill towns. See Day 7.

Day 7: Depending on how we spend Day 6, we will either spend the morning in Ronda and then head out for Grazalema and Zahara, eventually getting to Seville that night, or, if we've skipped or cut short the Antequera area and seen Ronda on Day 6, we could possible see the Pileta Cave this day, in addition to Grazalema and Zahara. And what about Arcos? Will we be disappointed to miss that, or will we have seen enough hill towns by that point? Would love to hear people's advice on this part of the itinerary. In either event, sleep in Seville.

Days 8 and 9: Seville. Alcazar, Barrio Santa Cruz, Cathedral, Church of the Savior, Maria Luisa Park, Plaza de Espanol. We will be there on June 15 and learned on this forum that there's a great program at Casa de la Memoria that night, so hoping for more flamenco.

Day 10: Leave early for the Algarve. Possibly stop at Roman ruins (Italica, I think) on the way. Don't miss or worth it?

Days 10-12: Algarve. Leaving this a bit open as I think we will need a break from all the running around. We can have some beach time or continue sightseeing in this region.

Day 13: Leave early for Lisbon. Spend the afternoon in Lisbon. Sleep in Lisbon for the rest of the trip.

Days 14 and 15: Lisbon and Sintra. Again, a Sunday night in Portugal. Many Lisbon restaurants are closed. Would love suggestions.

Day 16: Depart Lisbon for home.

Would love comments, suggestions, restaurant recommendations! My apologies for such a long post!

Are you not doing the night tour of the Alhambra???

This restaurant in Lisbon isn't fancy, but has the best chicken: http://www.golisbon.com/food/restaurants/Bonjardim.html

Also, if you have the slightest interest in port, don't miss the Solar do Vinho do Porto, also in Lisbon.

Thanks thursdaysd. Night tours are all sold out! I meant to ask if anyone knows whether they sell night tickets on the day of, the way they do with day tickets. Anyone?

Thanks for the Lisbon recommendation - I had seen that place recommended - definitely on the list!

Did you enjoy the Solar do Vinho do Porto? Very mixed reviews on TripAdvisor - many people said there was very little information provided and the servers are grumpy. Was your experience better?

I am a big fan of port, so perhaps my need for information was less, but I thought there was plenty. Provided you read the literature provided.... I didn't find the servers grumpy, but I am one, quiet, traveler, I imagine noisy groups would be frowned on. The ambience is more library than pub.

I loved the Solar, and have been back more than once. The prices were very reasonable, and there was an excellent range of choices. It would be hard to imagine anywhere else where you could sample so many different ports at such competitive prices. And if there are two of you, you can sample more at one time.

Bummer about the night tickets, it is a magical experience.

A couple of comments:

Before the flamenco at Arte y Sabores, you could for example have dinner in typical and affordable Taberna Salinas from 1879. Opens at 8pm, serves excellent Córdoba specialities, and comes recommended in the Michelin guide. I had a perfectly fine meal here a couple of years ago. Some ten minutes walking from Arte y Sabores. http://www.tabernasalinas.com/

From what you write, I think you will love El Torcal and the Antequera area. Here you should also be aware of the Peña de los enamorados (Lover's rock) just outside town: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%C3%B...los_Enamorados

Only top artists at Casa de la Memória in Sevilla, but the program for June is not set yet as far as I know. http://www.casadelamemoria.es/agenda/

I would definitely recommend a visit to Itálica just outside Sevilla. Italica’s amphitheater seated 25,000 spectators, the third largest in the Roman empire, and it's very much intact. Roman emperors Trajan - allegedly the best of them all - and Hadrian were born here.

I imagine you and your family are experienced travelers, but I was also wondering about the pace of the first few days of your trip. I like to move around, too, so I understand that desire to see as much as possible, but if it were me, I'd be wiped out by Day 2. A lot of driving in the first few days and not much downtime until the latter part of your trip.

If it were me (and I know we all are different in our travel styles), I'd probably place Cordoba after Granada, and take an extra day to get to Granada (since you're already committed to the city because of your tickets).

The same is true for trying to see too many White towns! I'm currently planning a trip to Andalucia, so can't advise on which ones are "not to be missed", but I think that sometimes, less is more. It's not necessary to see every one -- just a few to get a feeling. I say this for myself, too, as it's easy to get caught up in the whirl of travel planning and read about every other person's favorite town!

I do love some of your ideas for the natural attractions and other off-the-beaten track places. I think that including a day of hiking or walking will be wonderful.

And I do look forward to reading your trip report, as I'll be using it when I fine tune my own plans for next year!

Click on my name for my Portugal trip report, with restaurant suggestions in Lisbon and a discussion of Evora.

My preferred restaurant in Evora was Dom Joaquim:

http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant..._Alentejo.html

Thanks everyone!

OK, thursdaysd, port tasting is on the itinerary for Lisbon! I really enjoy port but know next to nothing bout it - my father-in-law has a number of nicely aged bottles and he just shows up with them on holidays and I happily drink it, but am very uninformed about what I'm drinking, so I'm glad to hear there is information available.

kimhe, thanks for that information - that's exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know about the dinner/flamenco in Cordoba and also about the Antequera region and Italica. You're right that the schedule for flamenco is not set yet in Seville for June - don't know what it was I thought I saw. Maybe an old post for a different date? Anyway, I'll keep checking.

progol, I'm a bit worried about the pace too. DH is someone who can't sit still, and usually adrenaline carries us all through the early part of any vacation and we don't really relax until several days in, but I'm worried about all the driving, jet lag, etc. With three drivers (one DD drives) we can take turns, but also, if necessary, we can skip the Alpujarras. I'd be disappointed, but it gives us an escape hatch if we just need a down day. I agree about "too many white towns" - trying to find the right balance.

Any thoughts about Pileta Cave? Don't miss or just OK?

Keep the comments coming!

tedgale, just saw your reply. Thanks - I'll definitely check out your trip report! Unfortunately I think Dom Joaquim may be closed for dinner on Sunday. Maybe we should go for a big lunch and then have a light dinner and go to bed, since it's our first day?

Talking about TRs, you might find this useful:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ing-lisbon.cfm

A video intro to the spectacular Torcal limestone rock formations. You can drive up almost to the top, and several walking routes up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWrrOMTfJeM

"some of the most beautiful and impressive limestone landscapes in Europe": http://www.andalucia.com/antequera/torcal/home.htm

And some info about wonderful Antequera, the so called crossroads of Andalucía: http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry....era-spain.html
http://www.andalucia.com/antequera/home.htm
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/tapaspain.html

And when in the area, perhaps walk the Camino del Rey ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDhRvvs5Xw

I looked at the other addresses that were recommended by the very high-end place where we stayed, just outside Evora.

Most places are closed all day Snuday. D Joaquim is open for lunch only.

Two places that ARE open in the evening:

Degust'AR -- Inside the very fancy Hotel M'AR de Ar Aqueduct. Looks pricey.

O Fialho -- described as a temple of Portuguese cuisine. Also pricey.

They also mentioned:

Pateo Wine Bar and Heritage Shop -- Open until 2 AM.

For the widest array of listings, I suggest you go on www.lifecooler.com. Select: Alentejo-Evora and you will get 100+ restaurant listings for the region. Evora restaurants are a subset within that list.

The restaurant in the pousada looks to be open too:

http://www.pousadas.pt/historic-hote...estaurant.aspx

Thanks again everyone, and thanks for the links to the trip reports tedgale and thursdaysd. kimhe, you're making our day near Antequera even harder to cut short! :-)

Still would love advice on:

Pileta Cave - don't miss or meh?
Which white towns you loved
Anyone who has been to the Alpujarras
Restaurants in Ronda and the Algarve especially (don't have many for those spots)- and any restaurants in any of our spots that you absolutely loved! (or hated!)

<<Restaurants in Ronda and the Algarve especially>>
Where in the Algarve will you be staying? The Algarve from east to west is a stretch of 170 km. Beaches and beach towns are very different on both ends. Lagos, Albufeira, and the towns in between are very crowded in the summer with lots of Brits and loud bars, lots of nightlife. Very nice golden beaches with stunning rock formations.
We always reside in Tavira, east of Faro. Much quieter, much more authentic IMO. Beaches here are long stretched 'Ilhas' (islands) before the coast, in the nature reserve Ria Formosa, and are of the finest white sand. You can get there by little boats or water taxis, in other places (Barril) by little train, in other places (Manta Rota), over a bridge. A very different type of beachlife than in the western Algarve. No nightlife to speak of but a lot of wonderful little restaurants. On Ilha de Armona you can even rent a bungalow and stay on the 'island'. Might be a bit boring for your DDs though.

<<Which white towns you loved>>
If you have enough time, you could drive the tour "Ruta de los Pueblos Blancos". If I recall well, it starts in Arcos de la Frontera (not to miss), but of course you can start in whichever village you want. You don't have to visit all of them but do not miss Grazalema, Zahara de la Sierra, Algodonales, El Bosque.
My top favourite white town however, will always remain Frigiliana which is a little east of Málaga (in the hills above Nerja).

<<Where to eat in Evora>>
We had an excellent dinner at BL Lounge. Not your typical Portuguese cuisine but really fine dining and the owner knows a lot of the local wines. He does a real good food/wine pairing! If you don't have a place to sleep yet, I can heartily recommend Albergaria do Calvário. I have never encountered such hospitability in a hotel. It is within the city walls and has an underground parking (the staff will gladly park your car for you).

We hope to leave for Andalucía next week ourselves but my DH has back problems and if he ain't better by Friday we will have to cancel. Thumbs up, everyone, please! ;-)

Thanks MyriamC! We are planning to stay in Carvoeiro in the Algarve. The more crowded end, but I think we'll be there before the large crowds - mid June. We'll have a car so not restricted to that town, although Tavira may be a bit far to go for dinner. Any restaurant recommendations down our end?

In Evora, we are staying at Albergaria do Calvario! Very excited! Seems like a wonderful place. Looks like BL Lounge is closed on Sundays, sadly.

Thanks for the white towns recommendations. I'm afraid we won't have time to do all of those. Trying to decide what to prioritize! What was it about Frigiliana that made it your favorite? It's a bit off our path, but we could go that way with a little extra driving. And have you been to Pileta Cave?

I hope your DH's back is better and you can go on your trip!

We just ate at the Evora Pousada a couple nights ago and it was a good meal. We had a great meal at Tasquinha D'Oliveira. Small restaurant and don't know if it's open on Sundays.

A very good Italian restaurant in Carvoeiro is Villa Medici. It looks very posh but it isn't 'stiff' at all.

We also had Sunday lunch at São Gabriel in Valle de Lobo/Almancil. It's a Michelin star restaurant but their Sunday lunches are very affordable ... and delicious! It's a 50 km drive but well worth the effort.

A bit further away, in the hills of Moncarapacho, is the Vila Monte Resort. Their restaurant Orangerie is wonderful, especially the terrace with great views on the ocean.

As you see, we don't mind a bit of driving for excellent food. ;-)

Frigiliana ... it was our first trip to southern Spain and the first time I saw a white town. Maybe that was the magic. This is at least 25 years ago but we plan on going back next week on our way from Málaga to Granada. At least, I hope we will be able to go.

CGS- Your mention of the Pileta Cave intrigued me and I did a brief search on this site to see if others have mentioned it. As we had gone to visit a few of the caves in the Dordogne, reading about Pileta Cave grabbed my interest.

It sounds like a very worthwhile visit - not overly developed and relatively unvisited - but those who've gone have said that it was really worth seeing. Here are 2 reports that comment on the cave. I've added it to my own list for next year.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...and-madrid.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...m#last-comment

Thanks for those links progol! I always just get search results that include the term in the title - did you do this with advanced search?

I'm now thinking, reluctantly, that we may skip the Alpujarras. Instead, to get out of the cities and up into the mountains, we'll do this half-day hike, just outside Granada:

http://topwalks.net/en/monachil/tunel_palomas.htm

another link: http://www.spain-holiday.com/Granada...nachil-granada

It cuts out a lot of driving and gives us a day where we don't have to be any particular place at any particular time. Also, we'll get the rest of that day for seeing additional sights in Granada.
progol, you should consider the hike for your trip! It also got rave reviews on TripAdvisor.

Still trying to figure out a way to fit in the things we want to see around Antequera, plus Ronda, Pileta Cave and white towns around Ronda, all in 2 days, including driving from Granada to Ronda and from Ronda to Seville! I could shave one night off of Seville and stay another night in Ronda, then leave very early for Seville, but hate to give up that night in a city that I think we will love!

Whatever you do, don't shave any days off Sevilla.

My suggestions for a short and to the core visit in and around Antequera:

Drive up to Torcal and do one of the several short or longer walks: http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract...Andalucia.html

See the Dolmens, the 5000 year old burial chambers, on the outskirts of town. Read a bit up on the history, the symbolism etc. http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5668/

Have lunch or a glass and a bite on the peaceful square in front of the Real Colegiata de Santa María la Mayor, the first partly Renaissance-style church in Spain (built 1514-1550). Up here it's totally peace and quiet. Next to the recently excavated Roman baths beneath and looking up on the 13th century Moorish alcazaba/fortress. Great views over unique landscapes. http://www.wild-about-travel.com/201...ing-antequera/

The church is today a cultural center, and I had the concert experience of my life here in 2007. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr03k_pk_NM

The out of this world cutting edge flamenco dancer Rocío Molina (Málaga, 1984) was supposed to dance "Por el decir de la gente" in the sunset up at Torcal, but because of the possibility for some clouds, the performance was moved into the Colegiata de Santa María. Here she is a few days later in the Ronda bullring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQcJC72NTsc

CGS - thanks for the links to the walk. It does look lovely. I also love the recommendations that kimhe has made. Since my trip is still almost a year away, I'll have to add it to the list and see what we will be able to do.

<< I always just get search results that include the term in the title - did you do this with advanced search?>>

Yes, I did. I placed the term "Pileta cave" in the advanced search tool and also adjusted the date to search 3 years back, the maximum it will do. There were a few other posts that came up, but those seemed to be the most relevant.

Paule

I just returned from a two week trip with my 17 year old daughter to Madrid, Granada, Ronda and Seville. Your pace made me tired...

Where are you staying in Ronda? We hiked down the gorge and went horseback riding outside a tiny town outside of Ronda. Driving in certain parts is not for the meek :-) -

Where are you staying in Ronda?

Thanks so much again everyone! We leave next Saturday!! And this is our final itinerary:

Day 1: arrive Lisbon, drive to Evora, see Evora
Day 2: guided tour of megaliths, drive to Cordoba
Day 3: see Cordoba, drive to Granada
Days 4 and 5: guided tour of Alhambra; other sites in Granada, 1/2 day hike in Sierra Nevadas
Day 6: drive to Ronda, see Antequera and other local sites along the way; Ronda
Day 7: Ronda, driving tour of Pueblos Blancos, possibly Pileta Cave, arrive Seville evening
Days 8 and 9: Seville
Days 10, 11, 12: drive to Algarve, Portugal, stay Algarve (Carvoeiro)
Days 13, 14, 15: drive to Lisbon, see Lisbon and Sintra
Day 16: Depart

I've eliminated one or two things to try to cut down the driving. Still a bit worried about the pace, but the first day has some down time in case we're very tired, and it slows down a bit in the second half of the trip. I'm most worried about the Evora-to-Cordoba-to Granada part, but not sure there are options. Also still probably have too much crammed into the two days between Granada and Seville, but nothing is set in stone except our Ronda reservations, so we can adjust if it's too much.

Momddtravel2: We are staying at Hotel Montelirio in Ronda. We also plan to hike down the gorge! Was it beautiful? Where did you eat in Granada, Ronda and Seville? I'm making lists but interested in your experience.

kimhe, thank you again for all the great information!! I've been checking the website for Casa de la Memoria and it seems the schedule for June is still not up, even though June is already here! It's baffling. Do you have any suggestions? I will try emailing them.

LisbonAdvice, yes, I wish we had more time in Lisbon too, but we will have 2 1/2 days for Lisbon and Sintra, and 3 nights, so I'm hoping that will be enough. Thank you for all the links - I will check them out! We do want to see fado, so appreciate your suggestions.

I found the answer to one of my questions from early on: for night tours of the Alhambra, if tickets are sold out online, you can buy them that day. They go on sale at 9pm. So we may try to do that.

Here are a few more questions:

1. Leaving luggage in the car: There are three days where we are driving and seeing sights along the way. I think we have no option but to leave luggage in the car, although I know this is generally not a great idea. Has anyone had experience, good or bad, with doing that in this region? Advice?

2. What about an international driver's license? I get the sense that people don't bother, but the US Dept of State website says it's required for Spain. What have others done?

3. Still interested in everyone's restaurant recommendations!

I would get an IDP, but as a AAA Plus member I get one for free.

You're either lucky or clairvoyant ;-) Pastora Galván dances in Casa de la Memória on June 15th. Voted best female flamenco dancer 2010 by Spanish critics. She fills the huge Maestranza theater during the flamenco bienal later this year. Her husband Cristian Guerrero sings: http://www.casadelamemoria.es/agenda/

Here the two together on Andalucian TV a couple of years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2SBUcrJgeQ

kimhe, that's what I thought I read previously!! Did I dream that? (I'm not that imaginative!). In any event, I'm booking now!

cgs, is car rental Lisbon to spain expensive? I am planning my 2-week trip in mid-july and debating if I should rent a car or fly? I am thinking driving to A. Caruna from Lisbon then flying out of Barcelona back to Lisbon.

Teresa-m, if you mean is it expensive to rent in one country and drop in another, I have heard that it can be. We are doing a loop, driving the whole way - renting in Lisbon and dropping the car back there at the end.

Thanks, CGS! Yes, I am thinking international one-way rental but read fees are expensive. BTW, did you get inclusive car rental insurance or just the basic?

CGS, have you cleared the Spanish leg of your trip with the Portuguese car hire company? Some firms don't allow you to take their car out of the country, or charge you a big insurance surcharge if you do.

You need to tell them in any case, as if you have an accident or problem in Spain, your insurance won't normally cover you unless specifically extended.

I did not do my IDP - we went to Ronda on the spur of the moment - cutting a day off Granada and off Sevilla - picking up the rental and heading to Ronda - stayed at the Parador and it was stunning :-) Room overlooking the gorge - perfect!

Our meals there were not remarkable - we looked for places with views - and those were great the food was not the best of the trip so I cannot recommend any. The hiking was drop dead gorgeous!

We did have a couple of remarkable meals in Granada and Sevilla. In Granada we treated ourselves to Restaurantes Estrellas de San Nicolas - stunning views of the Alhambra - pricey but stunning. Any of the places on San Nicolas would be a great view - the patios are less $$$.

In Sevilla we were ready for a break from Spanish food and had dinner at a fabulous Italian place Osteria L'Oca Giuliva on Mateos Gago, - best Sangria of the entire trip! Yummy!!!

CGS,
Have a great trip! I look forward to hearing about all it after you've returned (and recuperated!). It sounds great, and I'm sure you'll have some amazing experiences.

Paule

Wow, I think you need to cut down what you are doing by at least half. The Alambra takes a day all by itself to do it justice. You are going so fast you are not going to remember anything.