scrb11,
I forgot that friends stayed at the Casa De Canilhas in Mesão Frio when all the quintas between Régua and Pinhão were fully booked during the harvest season. And from the house there are very photogenic views, if that helps.

That does have nice views.

I am looking at a couple of other places, just on the south edge of the town, with great views as well, Casa Vale do Duoro and Vila Duoro guest house. Both are within easy walking distance to restaurants and markets.

But the dining options seem limited compared to Pinhao. Peso da Régua is 20 minutes away by car and there are more dining options there. However, from all the photos on Google, you can tell the Mesão Frio and Peo de Régua restaurants are all these small places off narrow sidewalks so no outdoor tables even though they're right by the river or have access to great views.

Looking around Google Maps, I see this place, which is modern and high end. They designed the place to take advantage of river views.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/O+...!1BCgIgARICCAI

I want to avoid indoor dining as much as possible.

Maybe takeaway Portuguese food isn't so bad? But some of these tiny hotel rooms aren't well suited for eating.

I might have to choose Pinhao because they have a few places with outdoor tables.

I know the places with outdoor tables in Pinhão, and some are seasonal and weather dependent.
In November the Vintage House Rabelo restaurant vine covered terrace was not open due to the rain. The Veladouro and LVB restaurants' terraces near the pier were open. The Quinta de la Rosa Cozinha da Clara outdoor terrace was closed due to the rain, but is usually open on a nice day. The "mom and pop" (think very hearty fare, abundant portions, low prices) on the town's main street.Rua António Manuel Saraiva, do not have outdoor terraces.
The Writer's Place, across the street from th Vintage House parking does have outdoor seating IIRC, but I haven't eaten there.

My favorite restaurants in Régua are: the tiny Tasca da Quinta (no outdoor terrace) and the high end Castas e Pratos in a former railway warehouse (small outdoor dining area)

Cozinha terrace looks wonderful. Do they have enough parking out there for dining guests? That road doesn't look like it's made for pedestrians to share with cars.

There is minimum parking at the entrance but cars do park below on the road leading up to it. Cozinha da Clara has offered us some fine meals. It's on the expensive side by Portuguese standards, but the cooking is lovely.
On our last visit I had a soupy rice with shellfish served in a Staub-type pot, which was delicious, and my husband had the baby goat. We enjoyed a bottle of their 2017 red wine. They also have vegetarian options.

You can walk to the Quinta de la Rosa from the center of Pinhão via the pedestrian bridge.

Interesting, the Google Street View and satellite photos don't show the lower level parking.

Apparently the Quinta also has a smaller place, Tim's Terrace, which is for pizza and BBQ. But reviews say hours aren't reliable.

Looks like Cozinha has nicer patio furniture.

Tim's Terrace is only open in summer. I only know this because I contacted them awhile back.

No exactly "lower level parking". It's parking on the left side of the highway leading to the Quinta de la Rosa. That's where the employees often have to park.

I know that Tim's terrace isn't open out of season because we asked and it wasn't open when we were there in November. It's barbeque and outdoors, so seasonal.

Veladouro in town has a covered terrace and it serves an excellent and copious Caprese salad that I took back to the Vintage House for an in-room dinner, when we didn't feel like going out.

scrb11,
The list of Miradouros that I attached doesn't include those in the Baixo Corgo (lower/western part of the Douro around Mesão Frio).
Here they are
https://www.cm-mesaofrio.pt/pages/673

We stayed in Pinhao for two nights in October 2021 and were actually underwhelmed. If we had it to do again, we probably would just have taken a day trip to the Douro Valley from Porto (which we loved!). After touring port houses and tasting rooms in Gaia, there was only so much tasting we wanted to do in the Douro Valley. The DV is definitely worth seeing but Pinhao is the small “burg” that Maribel references. We did do a challenging hike up the hill behind the town which was great.

as for your Sintra/Cascais plans, we enjoyed staying in Sintra for two nights and wished we had spent more time enjoying Regalaria. When we had a bit of extra time, we took an Uber to Cascais for lunch. That worked well and we were glad we had stayed in Sintra instead.

Thanks for the information.

I'm not much for wine tasting but I would visit a quinta or two for the scenery and learning a bit about the process.

There are some guided tours out of Porto but they run 9 hours so it's a whole day anyways.

Already booked 3 nights in Cascais so I can either drive up to Sintra or Uber, if parking situation up there is hairy. But in mid April, I'm hoping the traffic won't be so bad.

The parking situation in Sintra, trust me, is challenging. The town council banned private cars from the historic center quite a while ago and established new traffic patterns. At several monuments (Parque de Sintra--Pena Palace being one), there isn't any parking for private vehicles.

So, you're no longer allowed to drive and park private vehicles in the Sintra hills. The hotels in the center of Sintra indicate this on their web sites.

There is parking near the Sintra train station, located 1.5 km from Sintra's center. At the station you can take a taxi, an uber, a tuk tuk or the (usually very crowded) circular bus 434, called the Circuito de Pena, run by Scotturb.
This bus departs every 20 minutes, starting at 9:15 from the train station. It's a one directional hop on/hop off bus that takes visitors to the top of the town to the Park, the Moorish Castle and Pena Palace, then back down to the center to the National Palace. You buy your one-way or round trip ticket, to make the entire one-directional loop from the driver. You're allowed to make this loop only once.
The tourist bus loop:
Sintra Station -> National Palace / Historic City Centre -> Moorish Castle -> Pena Palace
->Moorish Castle -> National Palace / Historic City Centre -> Sintra station.

To reach Regaleira and Monserrate you take a different bus, the Scotturb minibus 435, called the Villa Express 4 Palacios, that also departs from the train station,
It goes first to Regaleira and then to Monserrate. It also passes by the Palacio de Setais, which is now a Tivoli hotel. Ticket for the entire bus route costs €5. Pay the driver.

From Cascais there are 2 buses to Sintra: From the bus station, Cascais Terminal, located below the Cascais Villa shopping mall, you can take Scotturb bus 417; trip takes 30 minutes to Sintra train station. Buy ticket from driver; fare: €4.35
https://scotturb.com/carreiras/horarios/inverno/.

Or the longer, scenic route: you can return to Cascais on bus 403 that goes along the coast, past Cabo da Roca. Trip takes 1 hour. Bus departs every 30 minutes. Last bus from Sintra departs at 7:40 pm.
https://scotturb.com/en/carreira-403-eb/.

This is the most updated blog post about managing a Sintra visit from Lisbon-
https://www.thatonepointofview.com/sintra-day-trip/

scrb11,
Here is the email sent to me just this week from Parques de Sintra regarding our upcoming visit:

"Good afternoon,
Thanks for your contact. We inform you that it is not necessary to present a Vaccine Certificate or a PCR covid test to visit the monuments under the management of Parques de Sintra. You can check the conditions of visit, prices and opening times at:https://www.parquesdesintra.pt/en/pl...es-and-prices/.

Important note: Road traffic in Sintra has recently undergone changes, with unauthorized access to the Moorish Castle and the Park and Palace of Pena for private vehicles and circulation in the historic center limited to residents. We recommend that you prepare ahead your visit to Sintra, informing yourself about road circulation and access by public transport. Please see the "How to get there" section for the access conditions to get to all the sites: https://www.parquesdesintra.pt/en/pl...-to-get-there/

Kind regards,
Miguel Pereira"

In 2020 I booked the Sintra Boutique Hotel because they included parking. They also refunded my money even though it was a nonrefundable booking.

So I was inclined to book with them again.

But when I studied the hotel's location and where attractions and restaurants were, it didn't seem as convenient, so I booked Cascais instead. So I'll probably make a day trip or two, either out of Lisbon or Cascais.

I want to visit both Pena palace and the Mouros castle but I'm more interested in taking pictures outside and maybe from the ramparts/decks on them.

For comparison, I liked the outside of Neuschwanstein a lot more than the inside, especially from Marienbruke and the views of the countryside below. Actually they don't even allow camera use inside.

I have similar recollections about Segovia and El Escorial, though it's been a long time since I've been to those.

Of course there's a lot of history to appreciate inside. But these days, crowded interiors don't have as much appeal as they used to.


Actually one of my goals is to take some pictures and videos with a drone. Portugal has a process where you have to get explicit approval in every place you would fly. Lisbon, Cascais, Sintra and Cabo da Rocha are all restricted for drone flights but the civil aviation agency said try submitting applications for them anyways.

Photography isn't allowed inside the Pena Palace.

Hello! I just returned from Sintra last night, and Maribel's advice was invaluable. However, I wanted to note that I was permitted to take photos inside the Pena Palace.

Thanks, abbydog, for the update on photography at the Palace.

Do you need a ticket to get to the outside terraces of the Pena Palace?

I heard that it was like €7 to access all the grounds but €14 to go inside.

If there's a big crowd, I'd probably prefer not to go inside at all. I'd climb the ramparts of the Moorish castle for the views and maybe the outside terraces, walk the grounds a little bit. Looks like you can really hike to some distant parts of the grounds, which are on higher elevation, if you want to.

Looks like the Moorish castle are just ruins? Couldn't find picture of the interior?

You need a Park ticket but not a timed entrance ticket to the Palace to photograph around it. With the Park ticket you can photograph from the loggias outside.

Please read the information here---all the info you'll need including the access
https://www.parquesdesintra.pt/en/pa...alace-of-pena/

Please read the info about the Moorish Castle here-
https://www.parquesdesintra.pt/en/pa...oorish-castle/

Thanks, I didn't expect Muslim motifs and ornamentation inside. Did they use the timed entrance to limit number of people inside?

The timed entrance is new, I believe, and an answer (I'll soon see) to the overcrowding inside, so a form of "crowd control". In the past visitors had complained about having to go in an overcrowded, forced line through the Palace rooms.
The Pena Palace is a hodge podge of styles.

abbydog, thanks again for your correction (not an update!). I just looked at our Sintra photos and duh!, I found some of the Pena Palace interiors.

Well I split it, 2 nights in Pinhao and 1 night in Mesao Frio to make for shorter drive back to the airport.

Then one final night in Lisbon, where prices are much higher at end of April than in the middle of April.

Just have to book flights between Faro and Porto and then back to Lisbon. Surprised TAP doesn't have direct flights from Faro to Porto and I don't know about Ryan Air, which only runs flights on certain days.


Also, car rental prices are sky high, over $100 average per day. What I'm finding out is that prices drop when you book within a month out so I will check those prices again in a few weeks.

Thanks again all.

Been studying some menus and researching Portuguese dishes.

Mostly going to try to find places which have outdoor tables, weather permitting.

It seems like most of the traditional dishes listed on sites like this one are in small, traditional places, maybe comparable to little family-run trattorias in Italy.

https://www.portugalist.com/portuguese-food/

The issue with that is these places are on narrow streets, older buildings so they won't have outdoor tables. Instead the places with a lot of outdoor tables are more pricey, which I'm willing to pay for some meals to avoid indoor dining, like rooftop restaurants on top of hotels. Some of these have good reviews, though I would suspect that the high reviews for a lot of these small traditional places has to do with lower prices (that would probably be the case everywhere, not just Portugal). But these more pricey places don't seem to do traditional dishes like bacalau a Bras or frango peri-peri, although the Portugalist site says there are more of the latter in the Algarve.

Francesinha sounds kind of scary with all that sauce and cheese over a meat sandwich, for those needing to control their cholesterol.

Also notice a lot of bruschette and risotto in menus too. Are these Portuguese versions or are these to appeal more to international diners? There seems to a lot of the latter with breakfast places offering avocado toasts and of course the ubiquitous hamburgers and steakhouses which seem similar to those you'd see in any country.

Are my assumptions correct, to sample traditional Portugues fare you have to go to these smaller traditional restaurants while the bigger places in some fancier locales tend to have higher-priced, internationalized menus?

You don't have to dine in expensive roof top terraces in hotels. They won't serve the very traditional Portuguese dishes that you've been researching (it's frango piri piri). They'll serve internationalized dishes or trendy fusion fare, for the most part, to appeal to a broad international clientele.

You'll find the very traditional dishes mostly in tascas, tabernas, churrasqueiras, "mom-and-pop" family-run restaurants. I think you'll find other less pricey options for outdoor dining, weather permitting.
As I mentioned elsewhere, in Pinhão Veladouro does have a covered outdoor terrace as you can see from photos.

In Gaia there should be outdoor terraces open on the riverside and across the river in the Ribeira district of Porto.
Yes, the famous francesinha is a calorie bomb.
On pedestrianized Rua das Flores, the Cantina 32 serves traditional dishes and has a few outdoor tables.
If you make it out to the western section of Porto, Foz do Douro, where the Douro meets the Atlantic, near the Jardim do Passeio Alegre, the small & cute
Casa de Pasto da Palmeira has an outdoor terrace and we've enjoyed traditional dishes there.

In Matosinhos (take the 500 double deck bus), Helena's home and home of fantastic seafood (Anthony Bourdain's Porto episode), there are all the restaurants lined up in a row on Rua Herois de França, across from the fish market. I believe that Salta o Muro has a few outdoor tables. Traditional grilled fish that I've put on my list for my next visit.

In Lisbon for frango piri piri there's everyone's favorite, Bomjardim, with outdoor terrace on "restaurant rows", Rua de Santo Antão and Travessa de Santo Antão. Also on Praça dos Restauradores in Lisbon there's the locals' and tourists' favorite, Marisqueira Pinóquio with large outdoor terrace. And in Cais do Sodré where one catches the train to Cascais, Ibo and Monte Mar have outdoor terraces and serve wonderful seafood.
If you take the 20- minute ferry from Cais do Sodré to Cacilhas on a nice day, there are two restaurants with ample terrace seating, Atira-te ao Rio and Ponto Final at the end of the walk past abandoned warehouses. They're very popular. We're headed there in 2 weeks on a Sunday, hoping for sunny skies.

In the Algarve you should find more outdoor terraces, fantastic seafood and sunnier skies, so there should be more outdoor dining options. That's a very good question for AgentNicky from Carvoeiro on TA.

Thanks Maribel, bookmarked most of these.

Hi!

SCRB, buildings in Porto, mainly but not only in the oldest part of the city, have a backyard. It's the place where we used to grow vegetables and animals (chickens, rabbits, etc). The outdoors places of restaurants are usually in there. For instance, in "Travessa de Cedofeita", a very narrow pedestrian street, all places have tables outdoors at the back.

One of my favourites restaurants in Porto is "O Caraças", in "Rua das Taipas". From the (narrow) street you see only the doors and the room inside. But if you go inside, and cross the restaurant, and leave from the last door, you have the grill (This is a familiar restaurant, mother in the kitchen, granma in the grill and the girls serving the tables), and an amazing exterior area, with views to the river and the ancient wall of Porto. I pay more or less 15 to 18 euros, with appetizers (not fancy appetizers, juts cheese, butter, bread and the inevitable olives), the dish itself, wine and coffee (I don't like desserts). For two people it can goes to 40 euros. Another example is "Venham +5". at "Rua de Santo Ildefonso", two nice exterior areas in the back. An so on.

Concerning "Rua Heróis de França", Matosinhos, all restaurants located east have exterior areas, the ones on the west I'm not sure. "Salta o Muro" is on west, and I have always eated inside (it's one of the the best restaurants for octopussy).

Maribel, Matosinhos is not my home, Matosinhos is where my home is. I was born in the heart of Porto, and lived in Porto (not the city center, my parents moved to a more modern area just before I was born) until I decided to buy an apartment. Matosinhos was cheaper, at least where I live.

I live very near the best open market in North Portugal. It runs every Saturday afternoon, it is called "Feira de Custóias", and easy to reach: just take the metro towards "Maia Fórum" or "ISMAI", and leave it at "Candido dos Reis" station and turn right (or just follow the people). You can buy everything there. I mean everything.

Hi Helena,
I should have said Matosinhos where you currently live! Home is Porto! Thanks for the dining recommendations, and especially about the terraces in the backyards.

Thank you Helena, will look out for those recommendations.

On a slightly negative note, Portugal and Italy have had some rises in new cases the last few days.

Hopefully not a new wave, maybe people not being as careful since cases have been declining for about a month now.

Yes, you're absolutely right. I speak for myself, and for others. We are tired. We are kissing and hughing. It's stupid, I know.

Most of the people I konw had COVID the last months, and it's mainly because we are not respecting the measures. I mean... we are all vaccinated with all the dosis and boosters, and we need to kiss and hugh, we really need that, we need to touch people.

My friends are not very well, covid is hurting them hard, like one week in bed feeling really tired. Older people are better, I don't know why. My parents had it a month ago without even noticing. They wre tested because their women that cares for them told she was positive (and she stayed in bed for 3 days). My parents were ok, they tested positive so they stayed home for the time they are obliged. My mother is 84 with a bad heart disease.

The number of cases would be much higher if there was a system where you can get the real numbers. But many people just test positive and stay home 7 days, and they cannot even participate that to the health authorities.

The number of cases is not real. I look at the number of deaths and the condition of people that is dying, those numbers I trust, and it's not bad. It's more or less like the numbers of people dying of Flu every year.

Been reading about how unusual the Portugal toll roads are, how you pay online after you've used highways because toll booths aren't common like other EU countries.

Or you can rent a transponder and preload credit on it or something?

Anyone drive a rental car in Portugal recently?

All Portuguese rental vehicles come with a transponder already installed. The rental agent will simply ask you if you want it activated and you respond YES. Don't try to avoid the toll roads because it just won't be possible, at sometime you'll drive on one, and in addition these toll roads are much better maintained and far quicker. We do this all the time.

All you need to know about them is here--
https://www.portugaltolls.com/en

Thanks for the link.

Wow I see about €40-45 in charges, about half for driving from Cascais to Algarve.

Oh well.

Yes, but it's worth it, as you'll have very well maintained motorways, less traffic and you'll get their faster, believe me.

Google Maps will show routes without tolls and they're usually longer but a lot of times, the estimated times aren't much more.

But yeah I will pay for the best highways.

Again, google maps may show routes w/o tolls, but the times are indeed more and the roads not in as good condition. In the Algarve we did venture off the fast autoroute slightly, just before reaching our Tavira lodging, coming in on the dreaded, old and traffic loaded national highway. Our hostess actually scolded us for not taking the toll road, saying "didn't anyone advise you always to take the toll road?--so much faster and easier". We had to explain that we hadn't been foolish but simply wanted to detour that short amount to have a seafood lunch in Fuseta on our way to the Quinta. Then she said," ok. I understand, but take the toll road back to Faro!"

Well once I reach the Algarve, most of my trips will be between coastal towns so those don't require going out to the autoroute.

Similarly in Duoro, trips between Pinhao and Mesao Frio and points in between will be on local roads.

Surprised to see it cost a bit over 1 Euro to go from Cascais to Sintra but not to go along the coast, maybe up to 20-30 km north of Cabo da Roca.

The quickest and best way to reach Pinhão from Porto or its airport is to take the toll road, A4, through the tunnel to just beyond Vila Real then exit 13 and down the A24.

Wine tasting options in Porto and Pinhao?

See that the Quintas in Pinhao have various options, like tours without tasting. But they also have DOC wine tastings?

I know they're renowned for Port wine, which is sweet right, mostly to have with desert? Looks like tastings with chocolate.

Are there tastings of non Port wines? What goes well with meals? Lot of restaurants seem to offer house wine and then white, red and rose all from Duoro Valley by the glass?

We were very impressed with the quality of the toll roads on our two visits. At times it was a bit 'creepy' as to how few cars were using it, I'm sure partially due to our April and November off peak timing. The transponders from the auto rental company makes it very easy.

Compared to some of the stressful driving I've done overseas, and having lived in Germany for 4 years, driving in Portugal was a pleasure. We're due over in a month, guessing petrol will be super expensive.

I can't emphasize enough how easy and un-stressful the automated toll roads are and how well they're maintained. It makes driving in Portugal much more pleasant and well worth the money, ime.

Bookmarking all the Lisbon restaurants! We’re in Sintra next Wednesday - Friday, then Lisbon for six nights.

I do have a question: can I bring home canned fish? The sardines look divine. Thanks!