eradani

Ok, so Polish pronounciation tips from a Pole. FYI, I was born in the US so it's not like my Polish is perfect, but my parents made darned sure I knew my ancestral tounge. As my dad always said, it's a "free" language

"W" is pronouced like a "V"
"Cz" is more like "Ch" (think CZech Republic)
"Sz" is more like "Sh"
"Rz" is as though you were a hard "Shhh", replacing the S with a Z
"Dz"... you can get away with a hard "J" (like "Jane&quot

Thus, Czekoslowakia (in Polish) would be something like "Chek-o-slo-vakiya"

Dzein dobri (good morning) would be "Jane dobri" (hard "O" with an open throat)

"Jak sie masz" (How are you) is, sadly, prefectly pronouced by the guy in "Borat" (I refuse to watch that movie, I know I'd be offended =P)

A common movie where everyone is speaking Polish, ironically, is "Schindler's List". I must have been the only one in the theatre who knew what was going on. My parents (who grew up during WW2) were annoyed that the Germans were speaking Polish. But I digress. If you'd like to get to know the sounds of teh language before hand, that'd be a good source.

Hope that helps! Sorry I can't help much on Krakow itself. My family's from Warsaw and the only time I've been (sadly), was when I was 8. According to my mom though, a lot of Polish words used by the "younger" generation are English in a Polish accent. So more likely than not, you'll easily be able to get your point across =)

Melissa5

Oh, so much to learn about Eastern/Central Europe! I am building a preliminary 2-week itinerary around Krakow and Prague, linking them together with some less-visited towns in Poland and the Czech Republic...but which ones?? :-?

I read an intro to Prague and Krakow in the Rick Steves guidebook and learned a bit about culture, history, and sites. However now I find myself getting sites in Prague and Krakow mixed up...like, they both seem to have places like Jewish Quarter, churches like St. Mary's, Old Quarters...Yikes! Guess I have a lot more research to do!

What stands out so far is that the Poles loved Pope John Paul II and the people of the Czech Republic have passed a fine sense of humor down through generations.

<b>Maria H:</b>Thank you for sharing your meaningful return visits to Prague and how special it was to hear the Czech carols in the Old Town Square with the view of the Tyn Church. Since your father's family is Czech I know that adds layers of meaning. I am saving the link to your trip report; I really appreciate it!

<b>noe847:</b> Prague seems to have so many layers to discover, I agree we will want 3 nights just for Prague itself! Crafts are usually my favorite souveneirs. Thanks for sharing.

<b>mcaputo488:</b>I am fascinated to hear that Budapest is your favorite city in the world. Right now I am thinking for this first trip to Eastern/Central Europe, we will concentrate on Poland and the Czech Republic. But I can see that I already need to start a file for our future trip to include Budapest! I am curious to know why Budapest is your #1 favorite city. Rome is my #1 favorite city in the world...so far. Thanks for your input.

<b>eradani:</b> I appreciate you taking the time to help me with some Polish pronunciation. It is SO challenging! I have some CDs to teach me some travellers' Czech and Polish languages, but I haven't had time to open them yet. So far, as I am reading about Poland in my Rick Steves guidebook on Eastern Europe, I have been trying to pronounce at least a few letters properly in my mind...such as &quot;V&quot; for W, for example. But I have to admit both Polish and Czech languages look so hard sometimes I cannot even say the words for place names at all in my mind...I just have to skip them for now! But I consider it all part of the challenge of travel.
Thanks for the tip on Polish in Schindler's List...I saw it years ago and will see it again. I hear that they are working on trying to open up Schindler's actual original factory as a site but not sure when it will ever be ready.

<b>QUESTION: ITINERARY HELP REQUESTED?!</b>

Here is a preliminary itinerary, but I'm not sure what order to put the places in, and I'd also like any suggestions of adding a smaller town, a bit off the beaten path, maybe as a daytrip, nearby Prague or Krakow. Or suggestions of anyplace you would take off this list? We'll have 14 or 15 nights in Eastern/Central Europe.

Flying: from San Diego or LAX to Europe.

Prague
Cesky Krumlov
Krakow
Auschwitz
Zakopane?
Olomouc

Suggestions for a transportation plan with the least hassles? (Don't want to drive over borders between countries...Don't want any overnight trains...)

I think I have plied everyone with enough questions for now! Thanks so much for everyone's patience and kind interest.

skatedancer

Auschwitz is an excursion from Krakow, so just include it in the amount of time you will spend there. Zakopane can be done as a day trip; I think it's about two hours to get there (not sure, just remembering what I've read), so you can either do that as a day trip, or an overnight.

we are also planning a trip this summer that will include a few days in Krakow and Warsaw. Can't wait!

rs899

If you have an extra half a day in Krakow, you might consider seeing Nova Huta, a suburb minutes away by tram. This was a '50s socialist planned perfect community centered around a newly built steel mill. When John Paul II was bishop of Krakow in the 60's he had the guts to defy the communists and eventually they allowed building an interesting church (&quot;the Arc&quot. I thought this area was worth seeing, and a bit off the trail.

Rick

Melissa5

rs899, thanks for the suggestions...I did read about Pope John Paul II's church and Nova Huta and was wondering if the area was worth a visit. Nice to hear from someone who went there.

skatedancer: Enjoy your trip, and I'll look for your trip report as our trip isn't til September 2008! Thanks for the info.

cambe

Hi Melissa,

Have you tried the German web site for train information?

reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

I found it most helpful when planning my trip and I booked all my tickets in advance from them.

I am no expert on Poland and the Czech Republic having only been ther once but your journey from Ceskey Krumlow to Krakow looks very very looong. Some (if not all) the trains from Ceskey to Krakow go through Prague.

Where are you flying into and out of?

If you could fly into Prague and out of Poland (or vice versa) you would save a lot of travelling time.

Enjoy organising your trip.

Helen

cambe

Sorry this is the link for the German Web site

http://www.bahn.de/p/view/internatio...l_guests.shtml

Melissa5

cambe, thanks for always being here to help. You were so helpful with our trip to Northern Ireland! I have gotten side-tracked lately and haven't been able to plan the Poland/Czech Republic trip this month...but I will be getting back to it soon.

Our Poland/Czech Republic trip is for September 2008, whereas I have a trip coming up a lot sooner to Washington DC in September 2007 which needs my attention just now!

I must saw that whereas my books on Poland and the Czech Republic have been fascinating reading, for some reason the Fodors guidebook for Washington DC is really dry and boring! However Fodors always has well-organized info and I am plowing my way through the Washington DC book so that I can get back to reading the more exciting books for Europe!

I should add that whereas the places I listed above for Poland and Czech Republic are our destinations, I don't yet know which order I should put them in...I don't yet know where to fly into or out of. I want to rely mostly on public transportation. I also want to avoid overnite trains, so if 2 cities are far apart we will have to stop overnite somewhere in between.

I have CDs on learning Polish and the language of the Czech Republic that I haven't opened yet!

Melissa5

cambe, thanks for always being here to help. You were so helpful with our trip to Northern Ireland! I have gotten side-tracked lately and haven't been able to plan the Poland/Czech Republic trip this month...but I will be getting back to it soon.

Our Poland/Czech Republic trip is for September 2008, whereas I have a trip coming up a lot sooner to Washington DC in September 2007 which needs my attention just now!

I must say that whereas my books on Poland and the Czech Republic have been fascinating reading, for some reason the Fodors guidebook for Washington DC is really dry and boring! However Fodors always has well-organized info and I am plowing my way through the Washington DC book so that I can get back to reading the more exciting books for Europe!

I should add that whereas the places I listed above for Poland and Czech Republic are our destinations, I don't yet know which order I should put them in...I don't yet know where to fly into or out of. I want to rely mostly on public transportation. I also want to avoid overnite trains, so if 2 cities are far apart we will have to stop overnite somewhere in between.

I have CDs on learning Polish and the language of the Czech Republic that I haven't opened yet!

Melissa5

We have completed our trip to Washington DC and now I'm ready to get back to planning our Prague &amp; Krakow trip (Poland and Czech Republic, basically.)

But gee whiz...I see that 3 months have passed since I had such a great chat with you all, and the books that I've read have gotten a bit fuzzy.

Now I will have to hurry up and read the newest travel guide all over again to refresh my memory...our travel date is September 2008 so I'd like to start e-mailing accomodations soon.

What I find hardest about this trip is how to lace together a 2-week trip that includes Krakow and Prague when they are so far apart, without feeling rushed. I don't think I could sleep on the train...I would worry all night about the passport check too.

I am mind-boggled about where to fly into...from LAX to Prague? to Krakow? Through Frankfurt on Lufthansa? A different airline?

These are more musings, not exactly questions. Thanks so much for all of your help. I'll be back with questions that are more coherent, hopefully!

(In case anyone is wondering, yes, I'm also working on my trip report for Washington DC at the same time.)

I don't want to drive so that means taking the train and making an overnight stop between cities that are too far apart.

Maybe I will start with posting a new question...since at the beginning of this question I wasn't as focused about which countries to visit. Now we have definitely selected Poland and the Czech Republic.

Amy

Melissa5, I found that it was cheapest for me to fly into London (or whatever base might be on sale from your hometown!) and use EasyJet and/or Ryanair or Wizzair for the intra-Europe flights...mine were into Krakow and out of Vilnius, but I'm sure you could do the same thing fairly reasonably for Prague and Krakow.

Melissa5

Amy: I was thinking of flying into Prague and out of Krakow, possibly. We will have about 14 or 15 nights in Poland / Czech Republic.

I'm wondering if I could use Lufthansa from LAX to Frankfurt and then get a connecting flight from Frankfurt to Prague. (The reason is that we had a very good experience flying Lufthansa to Italy in 2004).

I haven't looked at the flights yet, as I'm working on our itinerary.

I am wondering if EasyJet, RyanAir, WhizzAir, etc. have planes that are big enough for claustrophobic people like me. [-o&lt; I am actually scared to fly but I do it anyway because it's the best way to see the world! The bigger the plane, usually the more comfortable I feel. But I can deal with a smaller plane for a short flight...

I also hear that those intra-europe flights, like RyanAir and EasyJet, have luggage limitations. We usually travel with one 21&quot; rolling carry-on size piece of luggage each...with the extra zipper unzipped we can stuff more luggage in it. I guess I have to worry about the weight of the luggage. Plus we take a second piece of luggage each...an 18&quot; duffel bag for the shoes, etc. that don't fit in the carry-on size luggage. Sometimes if I can get a non-stop flight we check in as much luggage as we can.

I want to post some more questions soon. Thanks to everyone for all the great advice and for sharing about their trips.

Because I don't like to fly, I am thinking maybe once we get to Prague, we should use trains to travel between Prague and Krakow, maybe with a stop at Olomouc. But I am stumped about how we fit Cesky Krumlov into an itinerary...it really is out of the way when Prague and Krakow are your main destinations.

I am waiting for my biologist husband to point out which spot in the Czech Republic has the most interest for him as far as the natural world goes...native flora and fauna. He's going to look at the internet with me this week.

I know I'm rambling a bit. Just too much in my head.

Rick Steves says to check out some of the smaller medieval towns and countryside in the Czech Republic, and to get beyond Prague...good plan but where exactly? That is the question.

We're leaving Budapest for the next trip, because we don't like to stretch things too thin. We really like to try to have time to see the sites, get off track a bit, experience the culture, etc.

Right now I'm considering this itinerary although it seems to have a bit of back-tracking in it:

Fly into Prague

Prague: 4 nights

Cesky Krumlov: 2 or 3 nights

Return to Prague: 2 nights

Train from Prague to Olomouc

Olomouc: 1 night

Train from Olomouc to Krakow

Krakow: 4 nights (with Auschwitz)

That itinerary involves returning to Prague twice, but I can't figure out another way to avoid a very long train ride.

It is possible my husband may influence that itinerary this week, when he takes a look at the biology of the Czech Republic.

Thanks to anyone who is listening to this rambling! I plan to post some more coherent questions soon.

shandy

Melissa, what you are proposing is almost exactly the first half of a trip we did in May this year. Prague, CK, Oloumouc and Krakow. We continued on to Zakopane and down through Slovakia finishing in Budapest. You are right about the train connections from CK to Olomouc being a bit of pain which is obviously why you are thinking in terms of returning to Prague. I had a look at them myself, but in the end it didn't matter as we decided to hire a car and drive.

I think you will find that two nights is quite sufficient for Cesky Krumlov, and thus you can add your third night to somewhere else. (We only spent one night at CK but I would have quite enjoyed a 2nd night).

I would suggest adding the extra night to Krakow and use it for a day trip to Zakopane if you like the countryside. Another alternative is adding another day in Prague and use it as a day trip. We really enjoyed our day trip up to Karlovy Vary. I know you don't like crowds and these smaller towns are a good way of escaping from the hordes of tourists. Incidentally, we didn't find Krakow all that bad at all. The Castle itself was very crowded but for the most part, so well managed it wasn't a problem.

If you wish, I would be happy to email my fairly extensive notes and suggestions that I compiled from this Fodors board during the 12 months I spent planning the trip.

thursdaysd

You can cut down on train time and avoid backtracking to Prague if you go Prague - Cesky Krumlov (or Cesky Budejovice) - Brno - Krakow.

I stayed in Cesky Budejovice and day-tripped to Cesky Krumov - it has a nice main square, and there is another castle close by that you can visit by bus.

I also stayed in Brno, which was a bigger, more industrial town, but an interesting look at a different side of the country. There is a national park just outside that you can visit by train and bus.

If you really want to visit Olomouc you can put it in between Brno and Krakow as you'll need to change trains there anyway.

angelnot1

Hi Melissa5

Good to see you on this site, after such fun exchanges on the New zealand forum.

Do you still need info on poland? As you know I am Polish living in Sydney for the past 20 years and I will be in Poland Sept/Oct 2008.

Melissa5

angelnot1: I would love info on Poland, and you must be happy that you'll be back &quot;home&quot; in Poland for September/October 2008! It's great to see you here after chatting on the NZ web. Our family trip to Poland (and Czech Republic) will be early September 2008.

I usually only visit 1 country at a time, and it is more confusing to plan this trip to 2 countries.

My great-grandparents came from Poland. I think my mom has a copy of their marriage certificate...they were from Krakow.

My itinerary is still flexible, but here is what I am thinking so far:

Fly into Prague.
<b>Prague:</b> 4 or 5 nights (with possible day-trips)
<b>Cesky Krumlov:</b> 2 or 3 nights (with possible day-trip to nearby mountains)
<b>Prague:</b> return for 2 nights.
<b>Olomouc:</b> 1 night
<b>Krakow:</b> 4 nights (with Auswichz day-trip)

As you can see from the above itinerary, we need to get from Cesky Crumlov to Krakow, which seems complicated to me. I'm not sure if we need to return to Prague to do this or if there is another convenient way to do this.

Do you see any way that Zakopane could fit into this itinerary?

I am wanting to avoid driving from one country to another. We will probably take trains. Would rather avoid the overnight train. If we rent a car, it would be to see countryside within one country...NOT to drive between countries.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions! Thanks so much for your offer of help.

We are mainly interested in culture, history, meeting locals, seeing the sites... My husband is a biologist, and if I can fit in any visits to national parks where there is still some native forest or native flora and fauna left in pristine condition, that would enhance the trip for him. There isn't a lot of info on this, though. However, biology isn't the main focus of the trip. WE mostly want to &quot;discover&quot; the &quot;real&quot; Poland and the Czech Republic.

Melissa5

angelnot1: I'd like to add one more comment to what I just wrote to you above. I would like a little more time in Poland, but I'm not sure how I can get from Cesky Krumlov to Krakow in a quicker and easier way than the one I have plotted above. In the plan above, I have used up 3 nights to get from Cesky Krumlov to Krakow (without taking a night train.)

I know for sure we want to spend at least 4 nights in both Prague and Krakow.

I am less certain how long to spend in Cesky Krumlov. My husband has some interest in the mountains near Cesky Krumlov but it is hard to say whether the nature experience will be worth spending 3 nights in Cesky Krumlov.

How does Zakopane compare to Cesky Krumlov?

Melissa5

thursdaysd: It's so confusing to sit at home and look at these maps and wonder...hmmm...how to get from Cesky Krumlov to Krakow...without a lot of problems. I had considered Brno since it is in a good spot on the map...

On trips I am happiest and most relaxed when I am all settled in one place for several nights. Every time I have to switch to a new place, I get anxious. It cuts some of the fun out. So I try to figure out the least stressful methods of transportation, and try not to move too much. That's why we are skipping Budapest.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Melissa5

shandy, thanks for taking an interest in my trip. It's cool that you did a similar trip. Do you have a trip report on fodors?

I had an interest in Zakopane but couldn't figure out how to fit it into our itinerary.

It is tempting to skip Cesky Krumlov because it seems out of the way. But it seems like a nice smaller town, plus it has a mountain with a forest nearby that seems interesting to my husband, who is a biologist. However if I can find him a good nature experience anywhere on our itinerary, it wouldn't necessarily have to be near Cesky Krumlov. But I don't see any other pristine types of nature areas between Prague and Krakow, unless I'm missing something?

This is mainly a trip to experience culture, explore history, meet people, enjoy adventures as a family in Poland and the Czech Republic. But my husband does enjoy seeing any areas which still have native flora and fauna and any areas where there might still be primary forest remaining...That isn't the main point of the trip but it is a bonus for him if I can fit it in.

Shandy, I am reluctant to rent a car (for more than a day or 2 in the countryside) because when you get my husband the biologist a car, he tends to get carried away with exploring bits of nature and he forgets that we are in the car... It is better to use trains for transport between destinations because of this. But I don't mind renting a car for a day or 2 maybe if we do go from Prague to Cesky Krumlov... I REALLY don't want to take a car from Czech Republic to Poland. Honestly we just have too much family tension on car trips and do better on trains! We will also have my 2 college-age daughters with us.

I feel like I am rambling too much. I am finding that the geography and transportation of this trip is most challenging, because in Eastern/Central Europe the main cities are such a long day-trip apart (like Krakow and Prague.) That's why we are skipping Budapest.

Basically, to sum up our desires...we want to get from Prague to Krakow and still have the opportunity to explore some peaceful, beautiful smaller towns or villages in between those 2 big cities! Plus we'd like to fit in some nature somewhere convenient for my husband the biologist.

We can spend up to 15 nights on this trip, NOT counting the time it takes to fly to Europe and return home.

I loved Rome, as although it's big, it feels very spread out. I had difficulty in Florence because it is more compact, and we were unlucky to be in Florence during 2 different festivals, so it was super crowded, even at midnight there were still crowds. But Rome is my favorite city.

I love small and mid-sized villages or towns.

I think my daughters, who are college-age, will love Prague and Krakow.

thanks for listening!

thursdaysd

melissa - have you been using bahn.de? It's the best place for train schedules. If your husband wants to see countryside Brno is not a bad stop - I spent the day outside the town, and although I thought the caves I had gone to see were a bit overrated, I really enjoyed the countryside - look for info on Punkva Caves and the Macocha Abyss. Zakopane is super touristy, but the mountains are beautiful (see my pix at kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel - Europe gallery) best accessed from Krakow.