Pls help with general planning trip to Madrid, Seville & Barcelona
 

So, we just bought our tix to go to Spain at the end of Oct. Before we make the hotel rsvp, I'd like to get some ideas from the experts here about length of days in these 3 cities.
I still have to research and do lotsa reading about the attractions/places to see in these cities, but if you could weigh-in a bit about the general overview, that'd be helpful. TIA!
Btw, we are in the mid-30s and we love big cities where a lot of things are happening :-)
But we also love arhitectural buildings, arts, cultures, food and of course shopping (this is more for me) :-)

This is what I have in mind:
Fri: arr in Mad (from Boston) in the AM (which gives us 1/2 day to explore the nearby areas. Most likely we'll be staying at the Westin Madrid)
Sat: MAD
Sun: MAD
Mon (Nov 1: All Saints Day) : since this is a public hol, I thought I'd use this as travel day to Seville. I'm thinking of taking the train in early evening from MAD to Seville
Tues: Seville
Wed: Seville (should we do a day trip to Malaga?)
Thurs: ?? This is the one that I'm still deciding. The options are: 1). Should we head straight to Barcelona? 2). Should we stay in Seville and do a day trip to Granada? 3). Should we pack our things and spend a nite in Granada before heading out to BCN on Friday AM? -- Experts, pls give in your inputs :-)
Fri: Barcelona
Sat: BCN
Sun: BCN
Mon: BCN
Tues > heading home (in the AM)

How much time you spend in each destination should be governed by

(a) what you want to spend your time doing in each destination (which you haven't posted)

or

(b) how much you feel following tourist consensus about "don't miss" sights is a great way to spend your travel time and dollars.

If it is (b), most of the famous guidebook companies, including Fodor's and especially Michelin, will list for you the "top ten" sights in every city and tell you how much time it takes a normal person to walk through them.

There is no "expert" advice about how YOU should spend your travel dollars and time. YOU are the expert on whether historic sights like the Alhambra are less fun for you while traveling than a beer crawl through Grenada or a flamenco show.

Sorry if I missed to give in some info :-)
We are definitely interested in historical, architectural buildings, arts & cultures more than hiking/climbing and esp not beer crawling :-)

I hit Submit too quickly :-)
Just to add in a litte more:
We also love to stroll around, sit down at cafes, window shopping, enjoy some good food...
We are not big on museums but will enjoy one or two if they are really interesting :-)

Let me first say that I could spend a full week in each of those cities and still want more time. However, given your total trip time I think your time in Madrid looks good. One day you could do a day trip to Toledo or Segovia, or maybe one on each day if you leave early. Madrid is great in the late afternoon & evening, especially if you're not focused on museums (although I think the Reina Sofia in particular is really worth seeing).

Sevilla is one of my favorite towns in the world, but you can see a lot of it in a few days. I wouldn't give up a day in Sevilla to go to Malaga, but that's just me. YMMV. In Sevilla, be sure to visit the Cathedral, climb the tower, visit the Real Alcazar, tour the bull ring (when there's no bullfight) and wander the barrio Santa Cruz.

As for that possible Granada day, one question comes to mind: how are going getting to Barcelona? If it's by plane, is it easier/less expensive from Sevilla? If so, I'd skip Granada even though the Alhambra is beautiful. The Real Alcazar in Sevilla has beautiful Moorish architecture and tilework. It's not as old or as large as the Alhambra but it's still very pretty. If it's just as easy to get to Barcelona from Granada as Sevilla, then I say go for the one night stay in Granada.

You've given yourself a nice amount of time in Barcelona (again, more days would be even better but...). I strongly suggest you take a day trip by trian one morning to the Montserrat monastery. Wear good walking shoes (& sunscreen) and explore the mountain top.

Another suggestion is that you MUST check out Maribel's guides!

maribelsguides.com/

So, your basic itinerary is: Madrid (3 nights, including arrival day); Sevilla (3 nights); ? 1 night (Sevilla, Granada or Barcelona), and Barcelona 4 nights. A total of 11 nights.

With no changes to your current itinerary my comments:

For your 3 nights in Madrid you probably have time for one daytrip, I'd choose either Toledo or Segovia. I generally recoomend 4 nights minimum in Madrid - 2 for Madrid itself and then time for daystrips to both Toledo & Segovia.


Sevilla: I generally recommend 3 days minimum just to enjoy Sevilla itself. I'd recommend a daytrip to Cordoba (over Malaga) but this would go along with the recommendation of then adding an additional night in Sevilla. You can always find a daytrip to do if on the very off chance you are bored with your base city. But if you plan a trip with too aggressive an itinerary you have to keep moving. I would not do a daytrip to Granada from Sevilla. It's 3 hours one way not including transportation connections (getting to/from the train or bus station, waiting, taxi, etc...) making for an extremely long day and really shortchanging Granada.

4 nights in Barcelona probably is not enough time if you want to explore the surrounding area (Montserrat, Girona, Tarragona, etc..).

Personally with only 11 nights I'd decide on one or at the most 2 areas: Madrid, Barcelona or Andalucia. You could easily spend 11 nights in Andalucia alone....

With more time in Madrid you could add daytrips to Toledo, Segovia and perhaps even Avila - potentially even spend a couple of nights in Salamanca. More time in Barcelona would give you the chance to do the daytrips I mentioned (Girona, Montserrat, Tarragona, Vic) or even spend a couple of nights in Cadaques (but it would be very off-season and probably quiet). For Andalucia I'd spend 4 nights in Sevilla, and 2 in Granada as a minimum - you could even spend 1-2 nights in the white villages in between.

If you are not big on museums, I suspect Madrid will hold little interest for you. It is not a quaint, strolling place, but a very busy imperial capital with a lot of modern architecture. It has a marvelous cafe life, especially outside the tourist quarters. I seriously recommend that you read up on Madrid and instead of basing yourself in the tourist areas convenient to museums, base yourself in the wealthy shopping and cafe districts.

I think it is important that you at least know that Toledo (easily reached from Madrid), the mosque in Cordoba (easily reached from Sevilla) and the Alhambra in Grendada are among the most important cultural, architectural and historic sights in EUROPE and, in fact, THE WORLD. In addition, they are staggeringly beautiful to everyone who visits them, Although you prefer lighter sightseeing, please don't bypass these places without a very conscious choice.

I am a big naysayer on the Maribel guides unless you like safe middle class touristing.

Not being a fan of Gaudi, I'm also something of a naysayer on Barcelona. You can easily get the feel of the city in terms of people watching and tapas-hopping without spending much time there.

Wherever you go in Spain you need to mind your valuables. Leave passports and irreplaceable items in your hotel safe. Wear a money belt.

Sorry for my typo!

I meant to type "Grenada"

A night visit to the Alhambra is uniquely romantic and atmospheric. Seeing the gardens in the morning can be quite nice. You buy separate tickets to do both.

Look; Maribels' guides have good general information for 'download' as MOST people agree with. She is a very knowledgeable person and welcomes anyone to e-mail her for suggestions. A previous responder gave you her web site. If you considered another day in Seville, you could take an all day tour to the 'white towns'. A tour by Paul McGrath that we have taken and is outstanding. You can find that in Maribel's web site. Only a max of eight people in his van. Our tour had six, two people besides our group of four. Have fun planning. Richard

I am not against downloading Maribel's guides. If you are the kind of traveler who likes what MOST people like, you might be happy with her advice. She has taken her knowledge of Spain and packaged it into the kind of advice MOST people like. She may indeed have good recommendations for organized tours. i didn't find her recommedations for hotels, restaurants and destinations matched my interests.

I suggest you not take Maribel's guides as the end-all-be-all of advice on Spanish travel, and not be overly swayed by the fact they are free.

Hey 'p'. <I suggest you not take Maribel's guides as the end-all-be-all-advice on Spanish travel> Gee, I thought I only said it was good 'general Information'. Guess I touched a nerve, sorry 'z'. Richard

All - thank you so much for your inputs. They are very helpful and I really appreciate them! I will read on the info/guides on these 3 cities and will consider the advises you have given above when finalizing the itineraries.

I read about many positive reviews on Maribel's guide and certainly will look at them.
We will be using the Starwood points on the hotels.
But for restaurants, we usually prefer the low key, hole-in the-walls, small family owned places where the locals go (even if they don't speak English)...and we don't mind eating from the street vendors as our meals :-)

Let me digest these first, and I'll be back with more questions...

But for now, I do want to ask: what is the best way to go from Seville to BCN? I haven't booked anything yet...but I was thinking of taking the train...
Would flying be a better option?
Thanks!

Hi; If you fly, it's very inexpensive and only 1 1/2 hours. Total hours probably about four hours, including, cab and airport wait time. Maybe a bit more. Not sure about the train. Richard www.kayak.com

Thanks Richard...Other than kayak site..do you know other low budget carriers that fly within Spain, particularly between Seville & BCN?

Richard, you didn't touch any other 'nerve' other than beginning your post as "Look --" and carrying on as if another opinion of Maribel's guides needed to be minimized. Other than the fact they are free, almost nobody can explain why Maribel's guides to Spain should subsitute for the better guides that are out there. The guides distinctly appeal to a certain affluent, shopping-oriented demographic, and edit out most of what might interesting about Spain to a lot of travelers. I think it is really woefully inadequate for "general information".

Did you use ANY other guide to Spain?

Zeppole: thx for your input...I will certainly google in Toledo, the mosque in Cordoba and Alhambra (Grenada) to give us more insights of these places as we currently have no imaginations of what to expect from these places :-)

I shall be back with more questions :-)

"But for restaurants, we usually prefer the low key, hole-in the-walls, small family owned places where the locals go".

In Sevilla, you should check out the San Lorenzo and Macarena districts north of the Santa Cruz area. I think for example both Eslava and Bodegas dos de Mayo will be very close to what you are looking for:
http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletapas/category/eslava/
http://11870.com/pro/bodega-dos-mayo

In Madrid, you should visit Casa Revuelta, just between Plaza Mayor and the great restaurants/tapas bars in and around Calle Cava Baja. They do fabolous bacalao, squid in its own ink (delicious), meatballs etc. Small place and very popular also with locals. http://11870.com/pro/casa-revuelta

You also might want to have some tapas and a beer on the roof-top terrace at Casa Granada close to Tirso de Molina square: http://www.tripfilms.com/Travel_Vide...ada-Video.html

In Barcelona, go to the spectacular Boquería food market and have lunch at one of the two great tapas bars inside, Pinotxo or El Quim de la Boquería.
http://www.barcelona.com/barcelona_d.../tapas/el_quim http://www.barcelona.com/barcelona_d.../tapas/pinotxo

Hey 'p'; It seems like Iberia may be the only carrier. Very inexpensive. Just check the conditions for luggage, as many of these airlines charge extra for over their weight limits or possibly even checked luggage. After you check the train schedules, if you are saving half a day, that could be a consideration to fly. Richard

In addition to being a Holiday, Nov 1 is a Monday, so a number of the museums are going to be closed that day. I'd want to get into Seville with enough time to a bit of wandering. Seeing the Cathedral and Alcazar doesn't take a lot of time, but it's a great city for strolling and window shopping.

Btw, I stayed at the Westin Palace Madrid for 4 nights, and thought it was a great hotel. It's got a fantastic location - right across the street from both the Prado and the Thyssen, and only a 10 minute stroll to both the Puerta del Sol and Plaza de Santa Ana.

I often read that people got great deals for the AVE trains for travelling within Spain. I have been checking for a week now (for MAD>Seville and Seville>BCN) and the prices seem high (and much more than flights).
http://www.renfe.com/EN/viajeros/index.html

For those who have gotten good deals for the AVE trains, perhaps I can ask some questions :-)
How advance do you make the bookings?
Where do you get the promo code? Is it available for everyone oneline (the promo prices are what listed on the site)?

62 days ahead.

Having been to Spain several times, here is what I suggest.

Madrid is extremely charming but I think its charms reveal itself more slowly than Sevilla. Since you don't have tons of time, I might do the following instead:

Since you arrive in Madrid at the crack of dawn (I have taken this flight!), I might spend the first day wandering around checking out the highlights of Madrid then on the morning of the second, check your luggage in the station, pack an overnight bag, and take the local train (very frequent, fast, 10 euros) to Toledo and spend the day and night there. Toledo is so different at night than during the day and I am really glad we stayed the night there. Saturday night was extremely festive.

You will have to backtrack a bit but next, take the train from Toledo to Madrid and then take the train from Madrid to Sevilla. Spend at least two days in Sevilla and maybe take the local trains/buses one day to the white villages or the sherry villages. My favorite sherry village is Sanlucar de Barrameda - the manzanilla tastes different there than anywhere else in the world, the seafood is sublime, and everything is very affordable. As for a hotel in Sevilla, I suggest Hotel Amadeus. Very unique & charming property.

Then, in the morning, I would take the train from Sevilla to Cordoba. Check your bags at the station and head over to the mosque (Mezquita). The mosque is a must see (I am not a museum lover by any means but I have been to the mosque twice and was not bored for a minute bored). The mosque takes about three or four hours to see. The jewish quarter is a great place for a late lunch and then you can collect your bags and take the train to Barcelona.

Barcelona is a gorgeous city to get lost in and you will love it! I have been there three times and usually spend about 3 days there. We don't like museums either but were enthralled by The Museum of the History of the City of Barcelona. I stayed at the BHotel in Barcelona in April 2009 and found it very stylish, affordable, and well located (right in the Placa Espanya and across the street from the airport bus.

Maribel is OK. She gives you the same advice that is in the guidebooks. I emailed her once about getting some train info and she just sent me to renfe and directed me how to buy full price tickets. Later, I did some fooling around on Renfe's spanish website and booked all sorts of crazy deays (like the AVE from Madrid to Sevilla for 30 euros, a night train from Logrono to Barcelona for 19 euros).

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I am in my 30s and I did a version of this last April. It's a good mix of cities and culture and trains are fast so you won't be spending half your time on a train!

Oh, if you are brave, you can also do the "ultima hora" (last minutes) train ticket - exactly 24 hours before the scheduled departure, you can score 50% train tickets. You just need to log into to renfe 24 hours beforehand and grab 'em! We got 26 euro tickets fro Madrid to Logrono and half price AVE tickets this way.

I have taken the night train from Cordoba to Barcelona before. It is very comfortable. Cheap tickets are available approximately 2 months in advance but you gotta snap 'em up!

We got great food in Cordoba. I recommend the Bodegas Mezquita in particular. Cordoba also has a really neat little museum celebrating Andalusian patios http://www.cordoba24.info/english/html/museen.html. Just around the corner from that museum is a statute of Manolete, the famous bullfighter.

I would skip Barcelona and focus on Madrid, toledo or Segovia, Seville, Granada and Cadiz or Malaga.

After reading all the good suggestions...we have decided on the following itinerary (to include Toledo day-tripper and possibly Cordoba):
Fri: arr in Madrid at noon (which gives us almost 1/2 day to explore the nearby areas)
Sat: MAD
Sun: MAD – (With most of things are closed on Sunday) Is it a good idea to go to Toledo (as day trip) on a Sunday?
Mon (Nov 1: All Saints Day) : I'm thinking of taking the train in early evening from MAD to Seville (which gives us the morning time to explore more of Madrid)
Tues: Seville
Wed: Seville
Thurs: Still 50-50 on this...which should we do?
The options are: 1). Should we head straight to Barcelona? OR 2). Leave Seville in the AM and take the train over to Cordoba, drop off bags at the station, linger around the mosque and take the train to Barcelona in the pm….
The flight option seems to be cheaper than trains, but if Cordoba is a must-see, we don’t mind spending a little extra to make a stop there.
Fri: BCN
Sat: BCN
Sun: BCN
Mon: BCN -- Shopping day :-)
Tues > heading home (in the AM)

Pls give your inputs:
Toledo on a Sunday -- Yes/No?
Should we stop over in Cordoba on the way to BCN?

TIA!

I like your plan. I am not sure Toledo on All Saints Day is a great idea - museums might be closed. Maybe go to Toledo on Saturday? Do stop in Cordoba. I think it's underrated. I think 3 days in Barcelona is plenty by the way. You might add an extra day somewhere else.