Pls help w/itinerary in Paris, question re: Paris TGV to Luxembourg
 

Hello, I am always cautious posting on here because sometimes you Fodorites can be pretty cut throat :) Although, how you manage to answer the same questions over and over again dealing with some pretty incompetent people is beyond me. So, taking a chance that I may be one of them, I will forge ahead. I know you are wonderful though because you helped me plan my trip to London in 2009.

I am a 42 year old woman traveling alone to Paris for the first time in September 2012. I have researched this trip so much that the more I research I just keep adding places to my spreadsheet that I want to see. So, I am going to post the list and hope you will give me your opinions on some of your favorites and ones you think I should let go for this trip. I will be in Paris for 7.5 days (does not include travel). I know I have to whittle it down. I am staying in an apartment very near Bonne Nouvelle metro stop and then am staying two days at The Five Hotel (it was a really good deal). I'm on a very modest budget and will be getting either the 4-day or 6-day museum pass.

Notre Dame see crown of thorns at 3pm - 1st Sat
St. Chappelle
Ile St. Louis
Musee D'Orsay
L'Orangerie
Place de la Concorde
Arc de Triomphe
Grand Palais
Petit Palais
Pont Alexandre III
Jaquemart - Andre
Porte de Vanves Flea Market
Rue Montorgueil
St Eustache
Passages Vivenne, Joffrey, etc.
Galeries Lafayette
Opera
Madeleine
National Bibliotheque
Musee Gustave Moreau
Eiffel Tower
29 Avenue Rapp (it's just a door but am hoping for more architecture on this street)
Les Invalides
Rodin Museum
Pere LaChaise
Louvre
Pont Neuf
Bouquinistes
Tuileries Garden
St. Severin
Musee Cluny
St. Etienne du Mont
Pantheon
Rue Mouffetard
Jardin des Plantes
Luxembourg Gardens
Montmartre Sacre Coeur
Bateaux Vedettes du Pont Neuf (goodbye Paris)
Fontain Cuvier
Square Rene-Viviani
Cour de Rohan (closed sundays)
Canal St. Martin Cruise
Place Furstemburg Musee Delacroix

Also, if that were not enough I will be traveling from Paris to Luxembourg to visit some cousins by marriage. I am planning on taking the TGV from Gare l'Est to Luxembourg (the country). I would like to know if it is feasible to see Reims cathedral as a pit stop in the middle of the day and continue on to Luxembourg.

Thank you so very much in advance! I have searched the threads for the last two months and have gotten wonderful suggestions so far regarding transportation, apartments, and of course food!

The trains to Luxembourg do not stop before Metz.

You could take a TGV to Reims, but then you would have to take another TGV from the Champagne-Ardenne TGV station 8km from Metz. Then you would have to change again at Lorraine TGV. On top of that, quite a few of the schedule proposals on the SNCF site suggest that you go Reims-Paris-Luxembourg to get there.

I believe that you would waste too much time by stopping Reims and probably at least triple the price of your train ticket (which of course you will be buying online ahead of time to get the best fare).

You can easily make a trip to Reims on another day, because it is only 45 minutes from Paris by TGV.

I meant "8km from Reims" not Metz!

You have quite a bit on your list and you will certainly make use of a museum pass. I hope you will build in some time to just enjoy the feel of Paris and not continually rush from one place to the next.

FWIW I was pretty underwhelmed by Reims Cathedral anyway (other than the fantastic light show they had on last year for its anniversary). The outside is pretty, but it was gutted by fire during WWI so there's not a huge amount going on inside.

As for your list, I'm a bit exhausted just looking at it ;) I haven't been to all of those spots, but the Louvre, Cluny, Sainte Chapelle and Notre Dame would be at the top of my list (sort of predictably enough). The Lady and the Unicorn tapestries alone in Cluny are worth seeing, and if you love medieval art and history as much as I do you'll want to set aside an afternoon to really enjoy it.

I enjoyed Jacquemart-André, it's fairly small but filled with good stuff. The Petit Palais is okay but wouldn't be top of my list. I was personally mostly bored by Les Invalides (not much on military history, to be fair). The Panthéon is okay but I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much without going on the free tour (in French, not sure if they run one in English).

Sacré Coeur is okay. Watch out for the guys outside who try to stick a friendship bracelet on your wrist and then make you pay for it - walking past them looking like you're not to be trifled with and telling them "non" or "ne me touchez pas" if necessary should do the trick.

I enjoyed Père Lachaise even though I'm apparently the only person in the world unable to locate Oscar Wilde's tomb. I think the only one I found was Jim Morrison's and that was by following someone who looked like they were a Doors fan :) Maybe buy one of the maps they sell if you have particular graves you want to find.

You'll probably end up walking through the Tuileries on the way to the Louvre or something anyway, but I don't really like them. Why the French need to fill all their gardens with pebbles that get stuck in your sandals is beyond me - I was most disappointed the first time I headed towards what appeared to be an oasis of green on my map and was greeted by a hot dusty wasteland... Pont Alexandre III is very pretty, I'm sure you'll see it at some point without needing to incorporate it into a special trip.

You'll have wonderful time! Yes your list is long and you may or may not see everything on it, but you will probably manage to tackle a good chunk of if you have lots of energy.

If you haven't already done so, you should make note of the opening/closing days and times of each place, and whether there are any special exhibitions on, and rank them in order of importance to you. You can make a general plan for what you want to see each day, but keep it flexible.

For the Louvre, I recommend studying the layout beforehand, decide what you'd like to see, and devise a plan of attack, so to speak, so you can make the best use of your time. The Louvre website can be very helpful in this respect.

For a map, I'd recommend getting a Michelin Paris Plan, I use a No 11 and a No 57.

I'd also recommend the Blue Guide Paris, which gives intelligent and detailed information on the historical sights and museums, and has excellent maps. The chapter on the Louvre alone makes this guide worth purchasing (the Blue Guide does not give restaurant/hotel recs, just info on sights and museums).

Whew! I think it took me about 8 trips to Paris to see everything on your list. Many we return to each trip (e.g. the Louvre, Ste. Chappelle, the Musee D'Orsay). Many we have seen once and have no desire to see again (e.g. Sacre Coeur, Pere Lachaise, Galleries Lafayette). Lots you can see by just walking by or passing by on a Seine Cruise. Don't worry about going into the Grand or Petit Palais unless they have specilal exhibits your really would like to see.

Make a list of your "must sees", group them by area to avoid backtracking and, as recommended above, be sure to note the days/hours they will be closed. We like the Michelin Green Guide and find the Paris Streetwise maps easy to use and convenient to carry and fold.

Try to save some time to stroll, sit in parks and cafes and watch Paris pass by. Have a wonderful time planning and an even more wonderful time in Paris. You are going at a great time of the year.

I would just make three or four items "obligatory" every day and hope to see a lot of the rest by accident just wandering around -- Paris is so compact that there's generally something of major interest every couple of blocks.

At first your list your list looks daunting,, and you probaly will need to edit out a few things, but, many of the things on your list will actually be stuff you walk by on way to other sites( like the bouquinistes) etc. so you may get a fair chunk done.
I would skip the Canal cruise and do the Seine river cruise, the Canal cruise will take too long, the Seine cruise is only an hour.

You will have to remove some stuff, and do it by your interests and priorities, no one can say whether one site is more relevent or important then another for another person. Remember, the only "must sees" are what you decide you "must see".

I would also suggest that you carefully list which days the museums you want to see are closed, it will either be a monday or tuesday, so make sure you don't travel across town to arrive at a closed door! I have done this myself. !

Also, you can take advantage of evening visits for both the Orsay and Louvre, the crowds are a bit less, and then you have more time in day to see sights that only have day hours. Do check online to see which museum is open which evening, I think they both only have one or possibly two evenings they open on.

You do have a lot on your list - at first I couldn't even focus on it LOL - but on closer inspection, a lot are things that as others have said you'll just pass by on your route. (Place de la Concorde comes to mind in that regard.)

You have already received a lot of good input. I'd add that since your stay will be split between a right and left bank location, grouping what you visit accordingly will also help to see it all, though as kerouac says, Paris is so compact that you might well have traversed most of it by the time you move to The Five Hotel!

You might want to do the Bateaux Vedettes on your first day/evening instead of at the end. It will give you a good view of the sights along the Seine and an idea of the layout of the center of Paris. (IMO, by the time you've been there for a week, this will likely be less exciting. And if you're still interested in it, you can always repeat!)

Others have suggested you organize by your interests and priorities. You mentioned wanting to see more architecture like the Art Nouveau doorway on Avenue Rapp. If you let us know more details like this, we can help you even more!

Also, you mention you'll be there for seven and a *half* days. Is that half day on your first day (after arrival from the airport) or the last? Is the trip to Luxembourg during the 7 1/2 days, or in addition? If the former, is there a specific day in the week when you'll be going and will you stay overnight?

It's so exciting that you'll get to visit Paris!

In case this interests you, an evening concert at Sainte- Chapelle? We found this delightful. I am trying to remember which church has concerts too. Any insights Fodorites?

Loved Musee D'Orsay! This year doing Louvre, Rodin and Orangerie.

And we are going back to Jardin du Luxembourg for a relaxing walk and to sit in the chairs and while away some time reading and absorbing.

And I want to hunt down the thinnest house in Paris in the Left Bank!

I wasn't underwhelmed by Reims Cathedral at all, I loved it. I think I liked it better than Chartres. It is really unique with its Chagall windows and so much history in Reims.

There are concerts at many many churches in Paris, and most are free or cheaper than the tourist concerts at Sainte Chapelle (and better). One couldn't name them all, the people doing them at Ste Chapelle are in the business of producing tourist concerts mainly in that venue (and one other they sometimes move to), but other musicians regularly play in real churches in Paris.

They may be tourist concerts but they are excellent, IMO. We went to a free organ concert at St. Eustache and thought the organist was practicing chords--for 30 minutes. It was absolutely awful. Just the luck of the draw.

Thank you so much for the advice from everyone and answer to my question keroauc! This is exactly what I was looking for. I will skip Reims this trip but am fascinated by the history so perhaps another trip. Thank you to ggreen for the advice on the Seine cruise on the first night. I will probably do it the 2nd night though because it will be all I can do to stay up til 8pm the first night.

I was counting that first day of arrival as a half day since I get in at 7:30 but figuring customs and finding the apt and such I figured I would only get a good half day in. And I will be walking the whole time outside - I don't care if it rains. Otherwise, I will fall asleep.

The trip to Luxembourg is in addition to the 7.5 days in Paris. I will be spending 5 days there (including travel to and from Paris). I am really excited and have a list of things I want to see there as well, including Trier in Germany.

My MIL was a WWII bride from Luxembourg and they had to flee from Hitler in 1940 and fled to Versailles (not the castle). She said they holed up in some type of church - she doesn't remember where. After the occupation in 1941 they went back to Luxembourg. They hid Luxembourg boys in their house because they didn't want to fight for the Nazis. She was forced into Arbeitsdienst and she has marked where all this took place on the map and I hope to follow her steps. It is my husband's cousins that I am going to visit with. They live in Esch-Alzette.

I'm not really researching anymore than that for Luxembourg because I want to see what they would like to show me in their country. If the things on my list don't happen, I'm fine with that.

Paris however I am doing alone and I can't wait!!! Thank you so very much for your advice. I have whittled about five items off the list. If you think of anything else, keep the comments coming!

Wow, your trip to Luxembourg sounds fascinating! My father's side of my family has history relating to WWII Paris and environs, but unfortunately I only know the family anecdotes, no concrete details to look up...

I hear you about the walking outside on your first, jet-laggy day! You probably already have a good idea of how you want to go about it, but I'll suggest an itinerary that will provide a good overview of some main sites, and plenty of time for you to go as slowly as you'd like to take it all in. I'm sure others will chime in, too.

Personally, the first thing I like to do when I get to Paris is to sit in a café (weather permitting, outside), order up some lunch and some coffee, and soak it all in for a bit. Then I want to walk around as much as I can stand, again for me personally on some of the wide boulevards or in a park with space and air.

1} From the apartment, head down towards the river; Rue Montorgueil will take you right past St. Eustache and into Les Halles. (A couple years ago, kerouac had a good post of a walk he'd taken around there showing all the construction renovations going on at Les Halles.)

2} If you then cross Les Halles and continue south, you'll cross the busy Rue de Rivoli and then reach the quay and the river bank. In front of you will be Pont Neuf, and the spires of Notre Dame close by on your left. To your right and slightly behind you will be the roofs of the Louvre. (The Vedettes de Pont Neuf leave from right there on the Ile de la Cité side of the bridge.)

3} From here, I would suggest crossing to the left bank, then turn right to walk along that quay; that way you'll pass some bouquinistes, and besides, the walk at this point on the right bank is kind of boring, just the wall of the Louvre.

4} Next, you could either continue on the left bank to the Museé d'Orsay, or cross back over on the Pont du Carrousel to see the Louvre pyramid and the "start" of the Tuileries. If you do walk over to the Museé d'Orsay, backtrack a little bit to cross the river on Pont Royal. In either case, continue west through the Tuileries to the Place de la Concorde. As you walk, you'll be able to see the visual line from the courtyard of the Louvre through the obelisk at Place de la Concorde up to the Arc de Triomphe at the top of the Champs Elysées. At times you'll also see the Musée d'Orsay right across the river.

[Depending on how you're feeling / how long this has taken you, at Place de la Concorde you can get on the M8 to return to your apartment - or keep walking!]

5} From Place de la Concorde, if you want to start heading towards the apartment: walk up Rue Royale to the Madeleine, then follow the Blvd de la Madeleine in front of the building to the Opéra Garnier. (Metro stops at both Madeleine and Opéra are on your M8 line.) To continue walking, pass to the right in front of the opera house on Rue Halevy, which will place you right in front of Galeries Lafayette when you reach Blvd Haussmann. Now you can turn right and walk back to your apartment down Blvd Haussmann, or hop on the M9 metro a few stops to Bonne Nouvelle!

[Google tells me this route is about 4 1/4 miles altogether.]

5a} Otherwise, you could circumnavigate the Place de la Concorde to the left (clockwise) and walk along the quay continuing north to the picturesque Pont Alexandre III. You will see the Invalides across the river, and of course the Eiffel Tower not far from it to the right. Turn right on Avenue Winston Churchill to walk between the Grand Palais on your left and much less impressive Petit Palais on your right. At the Champs Elysées, turn right to return to the Place de la Concorde and continue as above. (Unfortunately, this isn't a particularly visually interesting bit of the Champs Elysées, just official/office buildings and not really any shops.)

[This brings the total route closer to 5 miles of walking.]

// Now the only thing I haven't provided are food options. Sadly, I can tell you all about sweets - both famous Angelina's and Ladurée are in proximity to Place de la Concorde - but more substantial fare other than a crepe from a stand I can't help with. Once you reach the river, the areas I have walked you through are monumental and wide open, and even in parts leafy and green (the Tuileries and near the Champs Elysées), but with all those monumental buildings, not really the environment for casual cafés, at least until you get past the Madeleine...

Esch-sur-Alzette is a nice little town. It is very close to my own ancestral region (only about 30km) in France.

If WW2 sites are part of your tour in Luxembourg, I hope you get to go to Hamm military cemetery in Sandweiler, right next to the Luxembourg airport. It is one of the most impressive American military cemeteries in Europe and is the burial place of General George S. Patton, whose tomb faces his dead troops, as though he was addressing them like in the movie.

Wow, thanks for the walking tips ggreen! I have mapped that out and it looks like I can do that. Thanks for giving two options. It is really nice of you to do that - that way I don't have to figure everything out.

I love the planning process but sometimes finding where you need to go can be a bit daunting while you're there and you can waste valuable time walking down a not so great street when just a block over there is a wonderful surprise just waiting.

kerouac, thank you so much for posting again. I have read so many of your posts and appreciate your comments. I will be going to Hamm military cemetery, as well as the family cemetery. I have three boys and want to discover as much as I can about their heritage. I am fortunate that my cousins speak fairly good English. I can read basic French and German fairly well, speaking it is another matter. However, Luxembourgish is quite different! My MIL has taught me a few words but not much. This will be my first time meeting his family and I am looking forward to learning all I can.

Thanks again for all your help!

mogsanova, you're very welcome! I figured that having an idea of where to wander and what you'd be looking for/at on your first day would be very helpful - especially being solo! This way, you can be a bit on autopilot and yet get a sense of some of the places on your list - to go back an revisit or not as you wish.

Oh, and I should add that, for any one of the monuments/museums you see that sell the museum pass, pop in and buy it if the line isn't long - that way you have it for whatever day you begin to validate it for.

kerouac, as always your images make me want to visit someplace I might never otherwise have thought of - this time, the way you describe General Patton in burial... <i>Merci bien.</i>